Lebron James vs Kobe Bryant, in the season, in MVP talk, more

[Loki]

But in 02/03, Kobe was asked to do all those things and he was doing them.
I remember that after like 50 games in the season he averaged like 28-7.5-7.5
Before Shaq came back.

Umm, Shaq only missed 11 games to start the '02-'03 season, not 50. And in those 11 games, Kobe averaged 32.1 pts/9.6 reb/6.7 ast/41.9% FG (he also averaged 28.2 FGA/gm during that span, but we won't talk about how he needed nearly 6 more FGA/gm to average just 1.1 more points per game than Lebron. Still, a nice all-around stretch from Kobe.

Basically, Kobe has shown that he can, in spurts, put up great all-around numbers, but he doesn't have the energy to sustain that sort of effort, and it comes at the expense of his offensive efficiency and TO's.

I do remember however, I still have that NBA magazine at home from that period and yeah, after like 50+ games, he was at cca 7.5 reb/ast.

Through 50 games he was averaging 7.1 rebounds and 6.5 ast. I just averaged it. And keep in mind that 39 of those games were with Shaq; it's a lot easier to put up numbers (at least assist and scoring efficiency-wise) when you have a player as dominant as Shaq alongside you drawing attention. Lebron would average 8+ assists playing with Shaq, because all he would have to do is penetrate (which he can do at any time) and dump it off to Shaq for a guaranteed dunk.

But usually yeah, those stats don't come nearly as naturally to him.

That's my point.

[Emile]

Coulda-shoulda-woulda, I say those are assumptions, I pretty much think it's proven than Kobe gets much better stats w/o Shaq.
Going all the way..forever.
His career high in points in 2001 came without Shaq. 51 vs/Warriors.
Same thing in 2002. 56 vs/Grizzlies.
In 2003, the 40 ppg stretch, the stretch without him etc..
And finally, the present and the last 2 years..
Come on.

So I hate that people still use "it's easier with Shaq" when Kobe does better without, obviously. But whatever, who cares about assumptions.

What I'm curious in Lok, is your opinion on why Kobe's mentality is bad, I'm curious in that, even beyond basketball.
He feels he can do better than everyone else. And he"ll work his ass off to do it. So, it's not just cockiness and arrogance, he actually works towards it.
Very competitive, ambitious, confident...

What's wrong with that? In life? In any line of work? Especially sports? But in general? I love that attitude.

[Loki]

What's wrong with that? In life? In any line of work? Especially sports? But in general? I love that attitude.

Because he thinks he's better than he actually is; his self-image doesn't reflect reality. Like you said, it didn't matter even if it were Jordan, Kobe would think he could do better. That's the problem: he doesn't understand that there are players who are just better than he is. Period. Hell, he played with one of them, so he should know that to be true firsthand. That he doesn't says a lot about him.

[Loki]

Really that's the only time right?
He wasn't put in that role in 2006 and 2007, where he averaged 40 PPG for an entire month just to get his injury riddled team into the playoffs...no I must be confusing someone else with Kobe, yet Phil Jackson in an interview claimed how he had to unleash Kobe during those tough times.

I was talking about the only time Kobe was placed in a creator's role, not just a "score as much as you can role. We all know Kobe can score...

[KINGD]

LeBron has now choked in 2 straight games.

[Emile]

Because he thinks he's better than he actually is; his self-image doesn't reflect reality. Like you said, it didn't matter even if it were Jordan, Kobe would think he could do better. That's the problem: he doesn't understand that there are players who are just better than he is. Period. Hell, he played with one of them, so he should know that to be true firsthand. That he doesn't says a lot about him.

Regardless of basketball, I say that's a pretty much terrible mentality to have in life, I'm sorry.
It's your faith that moves mountains for you, it's the beginning of everything and if you don't believe it strong enough, you won't be able to achieve it.
Kobe shouldn't feel like there's anyone better because he's insanely talented, he is one of the best players ever and will climb up the ranks big time for years to come.
Had he not believed in himself, that never would've been possible.

Jordan is not better than Kobe. Period. Shaq is not better than Kobe. Perod.
No one is better than Kobe. Period.

He's got the talent and there's no reason why he should just say "this guy is better, I might as well quit, why even bother"?

If Kobe had that kind of a mentality, he wouldn't be the portion of the player that he is today. He'd be a Vince Carter maybe. Or a Tracy McGrady. Or a..whoever.

It's his mental toughness and strength that got him where he is today, after all the controversies and troubles.

I'm sorry you have that kind of a mentality Loki, that actually saddens me quite a bit. No great player had that kind of a mentality. They all believed they're the best. And so does Kobe.

Every great person that has accomplished anything had strong faith. And so does Kobe. I'm terribly sorry you can't appreciate that Loki because it's a wonderful quality to have and Kobe's got it all, confidence, faith, work ethic and he has moved all the mountains in his way and he will continue doing so.
Not because of talent. But because of his mentality.

You"ll see. It is Kobe's mentality that is even more important than his talent.

[Loki]

Jordan is not better than Kobe. Period. Shaq is not better than Kobe. Perod.
No one is better than Kobe. Period.

Sure they are. Period.

Now I see that the problem is that you believe the same thing that Kobe does.

[KINGD]

LOKI has already admitted that Kobe is the better player at this point.

[Younggrease]

You"ll see. It is Kobe's mentality that is even more important than his talent.

I dont agree what with some of the stuff you said about MJ and Shaq but Kobe's mentality is what made him the player he is today. Its really uncanny to have a guy as confident as Kobe. Honestly this pretty much sums up Kobe's faith in himself. Its what makes him imo the most fun player to watch in the game.

[QUOTE]I am ashamed to say that I was excited the day after his injury because I knew that there was no way that No. 8 (as former Laker point guard Tyronn Lue called him) would be the first to practice, if he would even be there at all.

As I walked through the training room, I became stricken with fear when I heard a ball bouncing. No, no, it couldn

[Emile]

Sure they are. Period.

Now I see that the problem is that you believe the same thing that Kobe does.

Except that I'm not Kobe. My faith in him will do nothing for him whereas it can and will do wonders for me.
Back to Kobe, do I think he"ll surpass Jordan or Shaq? No. Doesn't look realistic to me.
But if he believes it, he has the power to go miles and miles and do it. Or do his absolute best.
And as long as he's got the drive, he will keep on going that way.

The guy has made it a long way, you got to admit that. He has overcome a lot.
Sorry but that never would've been possible if he was thinking like you think he should.
For one, he'd have no drive to work hard, nothing to work for. What for if he feels as if he can't reach his goal? And let's not mention the controversies, the injuries, rising from practically the ashes etc...

Like it or not but without that strong mentality and faith, he'd be just another all star now. At best. If that.

[Emile]

I dont agree what with some of the stuff you said about MJ and Shaq but Kobe's mentality is what made him the player he is today. Its really uncanny to have a guy as confident as Kobe. Honestly this pretty much sums up Kobe's faith in himself. Its what makes him imo the most fun player to watch in the game.

That's a fascinating story. Love it.
BTW, all I said about MJ and Shaq is that Kobe shouldn't feel they're better than him no matter what. And good thing is, he doesn't.
I know that irks a lot of people but that is what I do admire about him the most.

I mean, it doesn't just work for Kobe.

Look at Sasha for example, everyone used to say he's a scrub, he doesn't have it, never will, can't do anything and people laughed at his interviews when he complained about the lack of opportunities, when he was saying he needs to work on this or that because the general concensous was that he just doesn't have it and people laughed.
Look at him now, 8 ppg and surely will get a new and a luxurious NBA contract.

But Kobe...he's just something else. I can't remember him ever getting down on himself, he's truly amazing and it's jaw dropping how confident he is and everything. He"ll never stop trying and going. Never. As long as he is playing.
It's his mentality why I believe he"ll still reach amazing heights.

[Phenomenon]

Now I see that the problem is that you believe the same thing that Kobe does.

It's not a problem, it's only a problem because you believe it's a problem.
What the hell is wrong with thinking you're the best, it obviously drives him to success...just because he's not better then Shaquille or Jordan, doesn't mean he should change his mentally. The guy is making millions of dollars, playing the game he loves....who the hell are you to tell anyone that he should change his mentally, because some insecure Jordan groupie has a problem with Kobe personally.

I was talking about the only time Kobe was placed in a creator's role, not just a "score as much as you can role. We all know Kobe can score...

Well he obviously isn't as good of a playmaker as LeBron so he struggled with that role, not to mention if you take other factors into consideration such as not having a head coach, and being injured. You telling me Kobe failed at being a creator doesn't mean he's not a better player then LeBron...it just means he wasn't smart at playing along his strenghts as a basketball player.

I don't think Kobe can go out and average 9 assists a game and 9 rebounds a game, but he doesn't have to...he can use his defensive prowess and scoring ability to gain an advantage over a guy like LeBron...you telling me LeBron can put better all around numbers doesn't mean he's a better all around player because like I said, you can't measure player's defensive ability on a stats sheet and you are one of the guilty people that tend to compare scoring efficency only through FG%, and we all know why...because you do your best in disguising stats to make Kobe look inferior to someone.

[Kobe=MVP07`]

...he can use his defensive prowess and scoring ability to gain an advantage over a guy like LeBron...you telling me LeBron can put better all around numbers doesn't mean he's a better all around player because like I said, you can't measure player's defensive ability on a stats sheet and you are one of the guilty people that tend to compare scoring efficency only through FG%, and we all know why...because you do your best in disguising stats to make Kobe look inferior to someone.

True... and if i rememebr correctly kobe shoots 45% also from the midrange, and thats were he does alot of hsi scoring so it makes sense..

[brandonislegend]

kobe on the MVP race.

Asked what his MVP ballot would look like, Bryant says, "I'm not even thinking about that." But when somebody mentions that the Cleveland Cavaliers' James is a favorite because he's a near one-man team, Bryant, who was averaging 28.1 points, 6.1 rebounds and 5.3 assists through Sunday, snaps, "Put me in the East and see what happens."

[hotsizzle]

Just another reason why no one likes him. A normal human being would have said, "yeah, Lebron's doing his thing and having a terrific season; it's going to be a tough year for MVP voting either way." But instead he says BS like this.

And then you would call him out on being so fake and dull