Illinois basketball fans

[IlliniFan]

I don't know what happened to Tisdale. Maybe he was intimidated, maybe he was tired, but he was a total non factor in that game. I was also impressed by Keller. He is a gifted scorer, and had a very nice layup under the basket. I know MEachem was missing all night, but he had no other choice. McCamey has got to be smarter. Besides, in order for Chester to shoot he needs to have a LOT of daylight, and he was smothered. That situation, you either shoot or go to a wide open Meachem, never to Frazier, who I thought played a great game by the way. It's just not his game. Again, utter disbelief that they didn't even get a shot up. Weber must have been absolutely livid.

[ballinhun8]

Well we had some good bounce back games against Georgia and Hawaii. And at least we saw Frazier put up some points.

We should be 10-1 heading into the braggin' rights game and then if our streak of dominance over them continues we should be at 12-1 heading into conference play with tons of confidence.

Btw, when should we be expecting Legion? The first game in 2009 or when the second semester officially starts at UI?

[IlliniFan]

I believe he will be available for the Detroit game. If not by then, he will definitely be back for the Mizzou game.

[wang4three]

The Detroit game will be Legion's first game.


We need to really fix this rebounding problem. We can't enter the big ten season being this bad at rebounding. These guys just aren't rebounding and it's strange cause we seem to have good rebounders. Davis should be getting 8 a game and Chester is a fantastic rebounding at the guard spot. He should be getting 4-5. With the slower pace we play with, that should be enough to limit the second choices. I'm ready to just start Legion right away and forget about Trent in totality. I'm even ok with starting Jeff over him cause atleast he provides a nice defensive presence. Not Brock though, I like him off the bench. I just still don't trust him even though he's playing better.

One thing's for sure, Keller should be starting over Tisdale. I understand that Keller is the best offensive player off the bench, but Tis is just getting man-handled over and over again by guys 5"+ shorter than him. His confidence is really shaken and that jumper isn't falling. If not Keller, then Rich. Rich is reminding me of Ryan Anderson on the Nets. He's hustling for boards and playing tough and strong. I love that. He may end up being a Jack Ingram like player for us.

Oh and I cannot praise Chester enough. I want this guy on the sidelines one day if he doesn't pursue a pro career. Guy went from one of our worst shooters to one of our best. He makes his free throws (and with ease) and if he steps into a shot with his feet set, it's automatic bucket. Not only that, his leadership is invaluable. He's a fantastic player.

I love Mike Davis like I've been saying all year. And I really shouldn't cause I usually hate those tweener forward types, but I really love his game. His jumper is on, and I think next year if he had some face up moves, we'll be seeing a Jason Thompson type player. Maybe even Hakim Warrick if he can put it together. But right now I want him to focus on getting boards.

Demetri I'm not really sold on being the star of the team. He seems to be able to only do one thing at a time whether it be a scorer or a passer. He hasn't seem to learn the difference between shoot and pass. He also seems passive in games. Then again, I thought the same of Deron when he was here. So Weber will eventually light a fire in him.

Overall the team is playing great...and we're making free throws. I love it. Bring on the Tigers.

[IlliniFan]

Forget about Trent? Really? He is one of my favorite players on this team. He defends well, is one of our leading scorers, and is our biggest deep threat. Benching him would be a huge mistake and I really doubt Weber would even consider it.

[Posterize246]

Dee Brown cut by the Wiz

[wang4three]

Forget about Trent? Really? He is one of my favorite players on this team. He defends well, is one of our leading scorers, and is our biggest deep threat. Benching him would be a huge mistake and I really doubt Weber would even consider it.

Weber won't do it cause politically it's not a good message. He's a good kid, don't get me wrong. He plays hard, has good grades, and he's a senior.

He's not a bad player, but I just don't trust him with a starting and as large of a role he has right now. If he came in hit some shots that's one thing, but asking him to be a larger part of this offense is too much in my opinion. I feel we lose more than we gain in that aspect. It just seems like he only plays well against bad opponents.

[TheGame414]

Weber won't do it cause politically it's not a good message.

He won't do it because it's stupid. Trent takes care of the ball, knows the offense, is a much-improved defender and a 40% 3pt. shooter. If you think he's gonna be anchored to the bench as soon as Legion shows up, you're nuts.

Legion's probably not going to start, but there are plenty of minutes to go around. Four guys can share lots of minutes at three perimeter spots.

Frazier and McCamey are averaging a little over 30 minutes a game, and that will likely stay that way. Frazier's A/TO rate, defense and leadership are much-needed, and Demetri is our best player. Trent's averaging 31 a game, and that will probably go down to around 25. Brock will probably play about 10-15 minutes a game still, leaving about 20-25 for Alex and probably squeezing Jeff Jordan out of the rotation.

What do politics or sending a bad message have to do with potentially sitting Trent Meacham? Not like it matters, because it won't happen.

[IlliniFan]

He won't do it because it's stupid. Trent takes care of the ball, knows the offense, is a much-improved defender and a 40% 3pt. shooter. If you think he's gonna be anchored to the bench as soon as Legion shows up, you're nuts.

Legion's probably not going to start, but there are plenty of minutes to go around. Four guys can share lots of minutes at three perimeter spots.

Frazier and McCamey are averaging a little over 30 minutes a game, and that will likely stay that way. Frazier's A/TO rate, defense and leadership are much-needed, and Demetri is our best player. Trent's averaging 31 a game, and that will probably go down to around 25. Brock will probably play about 10-15 minutes a game still, leaving about 20-25 for Alex and probably squeezing Jeff Jordan out of the rotation.

What do politics or sending a bad message have to do with potentially sitting Trent Meacham? Not like it matters, because it won't happen.

Welcome back.
I agree completely about Trent. He is one of our best offensive threats and is more than holding his own on defense. He shut that one guy from Clemson down, forget his name but he was supposedly one of their best players.

As far as our best player, Mike Davis is giving Demetri a run for his money. His mid range jumper is money and his athleticism is insane. If he improves his defense and stamina, sky is the limit for him.

[TheGame414]

Mike Davis looks terrific so far and I'm a big fan. Dude's gonna play in the NBA. But Demetri can create his own look more or less whenever and also creates for others.

[wang4three]

I'm not a Trent fan. I expected a lot more out of him this year.

[TheGame414]

I'm not a Trent fan. I expected a lot more out of him this year.

Then that's your fault. He's averaging over 10 points, has a 2.3/1 A/TO ratio, is making 44% of his threes and has gone from a liability to reliable defensively. In other words, a slight improvement over last year. Did you think he was going to be the breakout star of the Big Ten? What in God's name were you expecting out of him? 15 points a game?

[wang4three]

Cause 15 points per game is really all to ask for. But no, that wasn't it either. I ask for improvement. Meaning a progression of stats. Not top heavy at the beginning the season and flow into mediocrity. Outside of the Vandy game he hasn't done anything all that special against our more difficult opponents. I wanted the consistency issues to end. But most of all, I expect better from last year. Atleast some sort of improvement. And as a statistical standpoint goes, he's averaging more or less the same he was last year.

[TheGame414]

Cause 15 points per game is really all to ask for.

Here's the list of guys who have averaged 15+ points per game for Illinois this decade:

-Frank Williams (16.2 in '01-02)
-Brian Cook (20.0 in '02-03)
-Luther Head (15.9 in '04-05)

That's it. No Dee Brown, no Deron Williams, no James Augustine, no one else. Yes, asking Trent Meacham to score 15+ would in fact be a ton to ask for.

But no, that wasn't it either. I ask for improvement.

He has improved since last year.

Meaning a progression of stats.

Meaningless statement.

Not top heavy at the beginning the season and flow into mediocrity.

So you're assuming he's done having good games for the yaer?

Outside of the Vandy game he hasn't done anything all that special against our more difficult opponents. I wanted the consistency issues to end.

He's a limited player who gets all he can out of his abilities. He didn't shoot well against Clemson but played great defense on Ogilsvy or however it's spelled. He didn't score much against Georgia but had 6 assists and only 2 TOs.

But most of all, I expect better from last year.

Then you should be happy. If you expected some huge breakout from a 23-year old, 5th-year senior who's actually seen his role diminish as Demetri McCamey has assumed the starring role in the backcourt, I don't know what to tell you.

Atleast some sort of improvement. And as a statistical standpoint goes, he's averaging more or less the same he was last year.

He's shooting better across the board (FG/FT/3pt), has a much better A/TO rate and is no longer a defensive liability. He's also more versatile offensively as he's shown ability to go off the dribble at times, a product of being healthy and not playing on a bum ankle.

He's a better player than he was last year. I don't know how many games you've actually watched or if you're just looking at box scores, but he's a better player.

[wang4three]

Here's the list of guys who have averaged 15+ points per game for Illinois this decade:

-Frank Williams (16.2 in '01-02)
-Brian Cook (20.0 in '02-03)
-Luther Head (15.9 in '04-05)

That's it. No Dee Brown, no Deron Williams, no James Augustine, no one else. Yes, asking Trent Meacham to score 15+ would in fact be a ton to ask for.

Like I said, it wasn't what I was looking for.

He has improved since last year.

Not at my eyes. He can't come off the simplest screens correctly. Is that much to ask from a player that supposed to be fundamentally sound? A senior? I guess so. I guess you set your bar low so it's not hard to fill.

So you're assuming he's done having good games for the yaer?

Base on trend, good games come far and in-between for the most senior memeber on the team.

He's a limited player who gets all he can out of his abilities.

I've said that over and over. But I still don't find that to be any sort of an excuse for not playing the same level each night.

He didn't shoot well against Clemson but played great defense on Ogilsvy or however it's spelled. He didn't score much against Georgia but had 6 assists and only 2 TOs.

Great defense is something we can get out of Jeff or Calvin even. I'm not looking for that so this doesn't all that matter to me.

Then you should be happy. If you expected some huge breakout from a 23-year old, 5th-year senior who's actually seen his role diminish as Demetri McCamey has assumed the starring role in the backcourt, I don't know what to tell you.

I've yet to use the word "breakout" but if you like to throw out extremeties, go ahead. Like I said, I like to see improvement. A simple "he has improved" from you is the same as when you said at the end of '07 that we would be better with Rodney. Or how Marcus Arnold would match Roger Powell going into '06. Or how in '07 that a line up of Jamar, Trent, Rich was the top 3 point shooting trio in the nation. But that's ok, we've all made mistakes and I'm surely not impervious to them. In this thread I must have overpraised Shaun and Chester not enough.

He's shooting better across the board (FG/FT/3pt), has a much better A/TO rate and is no longer a defensive liability. He's also more versatile offensively as he's shown ability to go off the dribble at times, a product of being healthy and not playing on a bum ankle.

Like I said, it's not at a consistent enough level for me to say that it's better. Assists to turnover ratio can be a result of us being a better team that's more efficient with the ball. Versus the last two years where we have dumped the ball into Shaun who took his time to score. Or asking Brian to be a scorer. Now, Chester seems to be a respectable set shooter, Mike doesn't need much time to score, and Demetri's jump shot has improved. If anything with the offense being so much better and crisper, we can expect this.

As far as him not being a defensive liability, sure why not. I guess. Most teams we face aren't going to have that many wing players pass 2 and Chester/Demetri/Calvin/Jeff can trade off handling their best while Trent takes the rest. I know you're going to bring up Oglesby again, but it's like guarding a poor man's Lee Humphrey. It shouldn't be all that hard if you keep a body on him.

He's a better player than he was last year. I don't know how many games you've actually watched or if you're just looking at box scores, but he's a better player.

Like I said, it hasn't been qualified to me. And I don't look at box scores, I'm particularly focused on him. I want him to succeed more than anyone else, but I'm just not seeing it.