The Bulls will regret their decision if they draft Rose over Beasley

[tpols]

Wade was better than Rose and it's not too close.

Outscored him in the regular season, outrebounded him averaged more blocks and steals on WAY better efficiency while losing shots to Lebron.
MUCH Better defender that year.
Poido youre delusional if you think Wade didnt receive a ton of defensivr attention because of Lebron

Wades series against Boston and Dallas that year blow away anything that Rose did in the playoffs that year.

Im on my phone so I'm not going to answer pointguards points till tomorrow night. But the overrating of Rose needs to stop.

Wade had more help in that Dallas loss (where he massively choked btw) and especially in that boston and chicago series than rose ever had.

Wade was playing next to the best player in the league as a 100% robin. He could literally take whole series off with sub 20 ppg sub 50TS averages.. and have his team win.

Rose had to create offensive numbers under entirely more pressure. And he did so until the playoffs when teams could key in on one man teams.. 2011 Wade would've fared no better than Rose did. Wade choked worse in that Dallas series than he had in any other years.. talking 4th quarter closing minute crunch time stats. Lebron was just worse so he overshadowed him.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Rose had to create offensive numbers under entirely more pressure. And he did so until the playoffs when teams could key in on one man teams.

Even LeBron at the same age, 22, against the 2007 Spurs. Without Boobie Gibson being on fire. He performed just as awful. The over criticism of Derrick Rose's performance against the cowardly stacked 2011 Miami Heat is alarming to say the least.

[aj1987]

Is there really a need to get personal? Pointguard is simply laying out his reasoning and you start calling him names..

You lose all credibility by saying Wade is better than Rose as a player and it's not even close.

When people think that Rose is an elite defender and that Wade can't carry a team, then there is no sensible debate to be had. Dude was just cherrypicking his arguments and completely ignoring the facts. Heck, he said that Wade took a step back in 2011, when he CLEARLY said that after the '11 season. Dude's an idiot.

Wade choked worse in that Dallas series than he had in any other years.. talking 4th quarter closing minute crunch time stats. Lebron was just worse so he overshadowed him.

Game 2 - Missed 2 3 points in the final ~40 seconds. Scored 9 points before that on 2-2 and 4-4 shooting. I put this loss on LeBron. Missed 4 shots and had a TOV after the lead.

Game 3 - 3/4 shooting for 7 points in the final ~6 minutes. A clutch 2 pt shot to put Miami up by 2. Bosh took and made the eventual game winner. 2 point win.

Game 4 - 3 points in the Final 30 seconds (1-1 and 1-2 FT's). Miller took and missed the game winner. 3 point loss.

heres some stats that will show rose played better than wade that season. Against elite competition which i accounted the top 4 teams in each conference, whom consisted of boston, chicago, orlando, miami, spurs, mavs, lakers and okc.

dwyane wade stats against those teams in 2010-11 were
21.4 points and 4.1 assists leading his team to a 7-12 record against those teams(a losing record)

rose's stats against those elite teams were
26.9 points and 6.7 assists and leading his team to 12-6 reason(a winning record).

womp womp, take your garbage basketball IQ somewhere else. The underating of roses mvp season needs to stop. idiots claiming westbrook and wade were better, what a ****ing joke.

With all those stats and beating "elite" teams, he surely must've made the Finals and won a ring, right?

[nathanjizzle]

With all those stats and beating "elite" teams, he surely must've made the Finals and won a ring, right?

what does that matter? the topic of discussion is who was better in 2010 -2011 and the stats show that rose played better. Their is really no argument to make otherwise besides hypothetical points like "wade is a better defender" and "bulls with wade would have done better" sykk

just face it, you believed and shared misinformation. in reality, rose won the mvp, wade had an elite team, and he wasnt even a thought for the conversation. it must be the media scheming against wade and lebron right? but wait, lebron was in the convo, but why not wade? lol

[aj1987]

what does that matter? the topic of discussion is who was better in 2010 -2011 and the stats show that rose played better. Their is really no argument to make otherwise besides hypothetical points like "wade is a better defender" and "bulls with wade would have done better" sykk

just face it, you believed and shared misinformation. in reality, rose won the mvp, wade had an elite team, and he wasnt even a thought for the conversation. it must be the media scheming against wade and lebron right? but wait, lebron was in the convo, but why not wade? lol

When the **** did I say Wade deserved the MVP?

All I said was that Wade was the better player that year. Also, do you honestly believe that Rose was the better defender and offensive player?

[nathanjizzle]

When the **** did I say Wade deserved the MVP?

All I said was that Wade was the better player that year. Also, do you honestly believe that Rose was the better defender and offensive player?

comprehend alittle harder. maybe i was insinuating that if wade played better than rose then he would have been in the mvp conversation

and yes, rose was the better offensive player that year and im not just talking about scoring, im talking about offensive creation. defensively, rose is as good or better at guarding his position as wade is. rose was just the better player that year. again 7-12 record against elite teams with lebron on your team, where was the leadership?

[aj1987]

comprehend alittle harder. maybe i was insinuating that if wade played better than rose then he would have been in the mvp conversation

and yes, rose was the better offensive player that year and im not just talking about scoring, im talking about offensive creation. defensively, rose is as good or better at guarding his position as wade is. rose was just the better player that year. again 7-12 record against elite teams with lebron on your team, where was the leadership?

Nope. Not with LeBron on the Heat. LeBron averaged 27/7/7/2/1 on near 60% TS with elite defense.

I don't know why you guys keep saying that Rose is a good defender. I don't like the DRtg stat (since it takes team defense into account more than individual defense), but Rose had a lower DRtg on a better defensive team. Even if you look at RAPM (another stat which I don't like to use), Wade was at 0.4 and Rose was at -1.2.

You keep bringing up the 7-12 stat, but fail to mention that 6 of those losses were against the Celtics and Bulls. The two team which Miami completely destroyed in the Playoffs (even with a struggling Wade in the ECF). 3 of those losses came during the initial stretch when Miami 8-9.

As PLAYERS, there is NO argument for taking Rose over Wade. Wade was the better offensive AND defensive player. I'm not saying that he deserved the MVP. As I said, there was NO way that Wade was winning MVP that season with LeBron on his team. Was was just the better player though.

BTW, don't forget that Wade got off to a slow start and really picked it up after the first ~15 games. 27/7/5/2/1 on 69% TS after the first 20 games. A 57 game sample size.

[nathanjizzle]

Nope. Not with LeBron on the Heat. LeBron averaged 27/7/7/2/1 on near 60% TS with elite defense.

I don't know why you guys keep saying that Rose is a good defender. I don't like the DRtg stat (since it takes team defense into account more than individual defense), but Rose had a lower DRtg on a better defensive team. Even if you look at RAPM (another stat which I don't like to use), Wade was at 0.4 and Rose was at -1.2.

You keep bringing up the 7-12 stat, but fail to mention that 6 of those losses were against the Celtics and Bulls. The two team which Miami completely destroyed in the Playoffs (even with a struggling Wade in the ECF). 3 of those losses came during the initial stretch when Miami 8-9.

As PLAYERS, there is NO argument for taking Rose over Wade. Wade was the better offensive AND defensive player. I'm not saying that he deserved the MVP. As I said, there was NO way that Wade was winning MVP that season with LeBron on his team. Was was just the better player though.

BTW, don't forget that Wade got off to a slow start and really picked it up after the first ~15 games. 27/7/5/2/1 on 69% TS after the first 20 games. A 57 game sample size.

idiot.

wade vs rose against elite teams in 2011

wade 21.4 points and 4.1 assists (7-12)

rose 26.9 points and 6.7 assists (12-6)

somehow this idiot thinks wade played better than rose that year. go figure.

[aj1987]

idiot.

wade vs rose against elite teams in 2011

wade 21.4 points and 4.1 assists (7-12)

rose 26.9 points and 6.7 assists (12-6)

somehow this idiot thinks wade played better than rose that year. go figure.

You're using a 19 game sample size, you ****ing chipmunk.

Funny how you ignored the rest of my post.

Wade > Rose as a player. Now go play with your toys. You seem as mentally competent as Rose.

[GrapeApe]

How did this thread turn into Wade vs Rose?

Sticking with the OT, as a Heat fan I definitely wanted Rose over Beasley and was extremely disappointed with getting the #2 pick. A Rose/Wade backcort would've been pretty insane.

[Dresta]

They were 23 and 28th in offense without Rose. Carrying and winning with a young inexperienced team is very different than being the second best player on your team. No exceptions.

Wade has never had any success carrying a big offensive burden in like 12 years now. In his best year '09 it didn't happen.

Rose's team was a playoff team without him. Wade's team in 09 was the worst team in the league without him.

[Pointguard]

When people think that Rose is an elite defender and that Wade can't carry a team, then there is no sensible debate to be had. Dude was just cherrypicking his arguments and completely ignoring the facts. Heck, he said that Wade took a step back in 2011, when he CLEARLY said that after the '11 season. Dude's an idiot.

You're so weak, I have mercy on you. I'll line up how silly you sound and we can debate all you want.

1)Where have I said Wade can't carry a team? I said he didn't have much success. Before '11 he was an all time great - I already said this. But once you go Beta its starts off as a lower standard.

2)And what idiot would think that becoming the second best player on your own team isn't a step back from competing for the best player in the game? Are you really this dense? You don't know the difference in being responsible and the key to your team winning and being number two? You really think that isn't a step down. Beta get some learning in.

3)I said Rose was a good defender because of his control of pace and holding down the elite at his position and he confused the hell out of Wade. Different if Wade was just missing but he didn't know what to do once he found out he couldn't over power Rose. I never said Rose was elite.

Your paragraph has no foundation at all but that's how you roll.

Thanks to the Chi-town contingent.

[Pointguard]

You're using a 19 game sample size, you ****ing chipmunk.

Funny how you ignored the rest of my post.

Wade > Rose as a player. Now go play with your toys. You seem as mentally competent as Rose.

It funny when you see someone, with a certain character, who knows he's losing the argument start trying to divert, start name calling, and trying to insult players. Why don't you grow up and try making sense.

What Nathan was showing you that Wade had fully embraced a second best player role. That's why he had no effect in the finals. When Lebron made it known he was going to take five mental health days, it wasn't like Dallas feared Wade at all. They had no fear that Wade was going to be effective in the series. They didn't throw the kitchen sink at Wade.

Wade didn't want to step up. He took 18 shots per game with Lebron practically begging him to take over. No way in hell would Rose have gone out with that type of whimper - much less with his shot going in. That mentality is why Dallas had no concern about Wade. And Wade was HOT!!! The mentality difference was huge. Wade was a number two not trying to be number one. That hurts your ranking. Wade in 2009 was great. But that doesn't do him any good in 2011.

[nathanjizzle]

You're using a 19 game sample size, you ****ing chipmunk.

Funny how you ignored the rest of my post.

Wade > Rose as a player. Now go play with your toys. You seem as mentally competent as Rose.

"19 game sample size" its not a "sample" these 19 games are what actually matter in the season.

wade 21.4 points and 4.1 assists (7-12)

rose 26.9 points and 6.7 assists (12-6)

wade was better? mentally competent you say?

[Smoke117]

2011 Wade >> 2011 Rose. People can say whatever they want offensively for whoever, but Wade was the best TWO WAY GUARD in the league and a much better defensive player than Rose in 2011.