Best Player Post Jordan (1999) who is it?

[VCMVP1551]

It's clearly Tim Duncan. Shaq was best between 1999-2004, but counting all the years, it's Duncan, since Shaq didn't play much in the previous three seasons... and didn't show much in the games he did player over the last three seasons.

No you're clearly WRONG.

Shaq's post Jordan accomplishments.
4 championships
3 Finals MVP's
5 Finals appearances
1 scoring title
1 regular season MVP(deserved 3)
Won 67 wins one season.
Led the Lakers to a record 15-1 postseason run.
Led a 3peat.
Became only the second player in history to win 3 straight Finals MVP's.

Shaq's regular season stats.
1999-2000 29.7 ppg(1st in the NBA), 13.6 rpg(2nd in the NBA), 3.8 apg, 3.0 bpg(3rd in the NBA), 57.4 FG%(1st in the NBA), 40.0 mpg, 67-15 record(Best in the NBA)
2000-2001 28.7 ppg(3rd in the NBA), 12.7 rpg(3rd in the NBA), 3.7 apg, 2.8 bpg, 57.2 FG%(1st in the NBA), 39.8 mpg, 56-26 record(2nd in the NBA)
2001-2002 27.2 ppg(2nd in the NBA), 10.7 rpg, 3.0 apg, 2.0 bpg, 57.9 FG%(1st in the NBA), 36.1 mpg, 58-24 record(2nd in the NBA)
2002-2003 27.5 ppg, 11.1 rpg, 3.1 apg, 2.4 bpg, 57.4 FG%(2nd in the NBA), 37.8 mpg, 50-32 record
2003-2004 21.5 ppg, 11.5 rpg, 2.9 apg, 2.5 bpg, 58.4 FG%(1st in the NBA), 36.8 mpg, 56-26 record

Shaq's playoff stats
1999 26.6 ppg, 11.6 rpg, 2.3 apg, 2.9 bpg, 51.0 FG%, 39.4 mpg
2000 30.7 ppg, 15.4 rpg, 3.1 apg, 2.4 bpg, 56.6 FG%, 43.5 mpg
2001 30.4 ppg, 15.4 rpg, 3.2 apg, 2.4 bpg, 55.5 FG%, 42.3 mpg
2002 28.5 ppg, 12.6 rpg, 2.8 apg, 2.5 bpg, 52.9 FG%, 40.8 mpg
2003 27.0 ppg, 14.8 rpg, 3.7 apg, 2.8 bpg, 53.5 FG%, 40.1 mpg
2004 21.5 ppg, 13.2 rpg, 2.5 apg, 2.8 bpg, 59.3 FG%, 41.7 mpg

Shaq's Finals Stats
2000 Finals
38.0 ppg, 16.7 rpg, 2.3 apg, 2.7 bpg 61.1 FG%

2001 Finals
33.0 ppg, 15.8 rpg, 4.8 apg, 3.4 bpg, 57.3 FG%

2002 Finals
36.3 ppg, 12.3 rpg, 3.8 apg, 2.8 bpg, 59.5 FG%

2004 Finals
26.6 ppg, 10.8 rpg, 1.6 apg, 0.6 bpg, 63.1 FG%

Those years with the Lakers made it almost impossible for Duncan to catch him, then he went on to have a couple of excellent seasons in Miami.

2004-2005 22.9 ppg, 10.4 rpg(6th in the NBA), 2.7 apg, 2.3 bpg(6th in the NBA), 60.1 FG%(1st in the NBA), 34.1 mpg, 59-23 record(best in the East)
2005-2006 20.0 ppg, 9.2 rpg, 1.9 apg, 1.8 bpg, 60.0 FG%(1st in the NBA), 30.6 mpg 52-30 record

So in those first 2 seasons in Miami he nearly won MVP his first season(he deserved the award) and his second season he still averaged 20 and 9 on a championship team.

You included his championship season when you said he hasn't shown much the last 3 seasons.

2006 Eastern Conference Finals vs Detroit's tough frontline
21.7 ppg, 10.5 rpg, 2.3 bpg, 65.5 FG%

Then when Wade got injured in 2007 Shaq carried the Heat to a 16-7 record while averaging 19 and 8 to get them into the playoffs.

The rankings for top 4 post Jordan players are obvious.

1.Shaquille O'Neal
2.Tim Duncan
3.Kobe Bryant
4.Kevin Garnett

Shaq flat out destroyed the league and won just as much as Duncan. There's no argument for Duncan over Shaq.

[jjayfive]

individual as in scoring....40-50 point games etc........i put him with AI......obviously, if there was a draft with everyone in their primes...shaq and duncan would go 1 and 2....

[Lakers]

It goes:

Duncan/Shaq
KG

Sorry but KG(and Kobe) don't even belong in the same breath as Shaq and TD. His text touching theirs is an insult alone. Shaq and TD are on a tier of their own Post-99 just like Jordan, Kareem and Wilt are on a tier of their own All-Time.

[jjayfive]

VC would have been in that kobe, AI level had he not got injured or shut it down in toronto......he had a few year run where he looked like the next jordan.....

[VCMVP1551]

Since Jordan:

MVPs: Duncan 2, Shaq 1
Championships: Duncan 4, Shaq 4
Finals MVPs: Duncan 3, Shaq 3
All-NBA 1st teams: Duncan 8, Shaq 7
All-NBA 2nd teams: Duncan 2, Shaq 1
All-defensive 1st teams: Duncan 8, Shaq 0
All-defensive 2nd teams: Duncan 2, Shaq 3
Selected all-star: Duncan 9, Shaq 8

No argument MY ASS!!

Shaq was more dominant between the 1999-00 and 2001-02 seasons than Duncan was over any 3 season period since MJ left, but overall, over the entire 10 seasons since Jordan retired, Duncan is better.

The All-NBA teams mean nothing. If Duncan didn't insist on being listed as a forward even since Robinson retired then see where he'd be on those. MVP awards don't mean much either. Shaq was robbed twice.

Duncan has only been better than Shaq for the last 3 seasons and 2002-2003 while Shaq was better every other season and nearly as good in 2002-2003.

Comparing Duncan to Shaq is laughable. The only big men who dominated enough to be compared to Shaq are Wilt, Hakeem, Russell and Kareem.

[72-10]

Meh, in his prime, Shaq's domination was so much more clear cut. Shaq is greater, if only by a little.

[knicks4eva]

kobe then kg

[Diesel J]

Any answer other than Shaq, Duncan, or Kobe is not accurate. Can't go wrong with either three.

You mean,any answer other than Shaq or Duncan is not accurate.KObe doesn't belong on the list.Shaq is clearly the best post-Jordan era player

[VCMVP1551]

The question is where would Shaq be on the all-NBA teams if Duncan was listed as a center. He won the MVP in 01 and 02, so he would definitely be all-NBA 1st team those two seasons. The only all-NBA 1st teams he would miss as a C would be 98-99 (Mourning), 99-00 (Shaq), 00-01 is uncertain, looking back, Shaq would deserve to be all-NBA 1st team more than Duncan, but remember that Duncan actually came 2nd in MVP voting that year after Iverson..



Plus he wouldn't be all-NBA 1st as a C Shaq's 1st season with the Heat, where Shaq was selected, and this last season where Dwight Howard would most likely be selected over him.. That would still leave, at least 5, maybe 6 seasons where Duncan would be all-NBA 1st team as a C, and Shaq would have at least 2, maybe 3 seasons where he would still be all-NBA 1st team. So the difference in all-NBA 1st team appearances would be even bigger between the two than it is now, where Shaq is listed as a C and Duncan as a PF.


As far as all-defensive teams go, he would maybe get one all-defensive 1st team, or maybe not a single one, but neither would Shaq. On the other hand, he would have many more all-defensive 2nd teams than Shaq, who would only have one (99-00).

Shaq finished 2nd in DPOY voting the same year he was all-defensive 2nd team. Kind of bad luck in that sense because the DPOY was at his position.

At center for defense you had Mourning, Mutombo, Wallace and Camby. All DPOY winners(even though i don't feel Camby deserved it).

Duncan isn't a stranger to being robbed of the MVP either, he should've won it over Malone in 98-99, when he came second in voting.. BTW, that is also a year where Duncan was better than Shaq, the first season after Jordan's retirement. Also, the 01-02 season, they were really close and Duncan was better in 03-04. And Duncan was definitely better in 02-03.

Mourning should have won MVP in 1999. He was the leagues best defender, he led the Heat to the number 1 seed without a David Robinson level player and he put up 20 and 11.

As for Shaq vs Duncan season by season

1999 Probably Duncan
2000 Shaq easily
2001 Shaq again
2002 Shaq
2003 Duncan
2004 Shaq
2005 Shaq
2006 Duncan
2007 Duncan
2008 Duncan

So each of them had the same amount of seasons where they were better than the other but Shaq had by far the 2 most dominant seasons and he was the best player in the league hands down for a solid 3 seasons in a row.

[miles berg]

Duncan and Shaq, its a wash. After that it is a bunch of people. You have LeBron James, he has been doing it for four years now, his single season numbers are as great as anyone if not the best. You have guys like Nash, Nowitzki, Garnett, and Bryant that have been doing it for years. Jason Kidd has been outstanding. Allen Iverson.

[Showtime]

What's this "as a player" comments? Basketball is a team sport, where winning is everything. Tim Duncan has not only been a premiere player on BOTH ends of the floor, but he's lead his team to several titles.

Duncan
Shaq



Kobe
AI

[Sir Charles]

1-Shaq and Iverson.

2-Duncan

3-Garnett

4-Bryant (with a question mark )

5-Kidd

6-Nash or Hill

7-Lebron James (he will be the Best in the following 10-12 years)

The rest don`t even count to being compared to the Greats of the 80s and early 90s

[Thom.Yorke]

Well, I think you need to be more specific with the question.

As far as skilled basketball player, Kobe

Accomplishments. Shaq.

Obviously Shaq and kobe are totally different players.

But shaq was a better center per se' as kobe is a pg. not to discredit kobe at all. he is the best player after jordan left the league.

[NY Comeback]

Tim Duncan, by far. Followed by Shaq. Next being KG, or Kobe is debatable; though I'd probably put Kobe a little higher considering he has more rings--though he was the second option on all those teams.

[BrianScalabrine]

Tim Duncan

/thread