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Old 05-06-2014, 09:33 PM   #16
Rameek
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Default Re: Shumpert only has star potential as a Point Gaurd with the Knicks

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Originally Posted by el gringos
What does that mean? Not capable offensively to play any of the 3 spots?
All he is to this point is a defensive specialist at best so at this point the kid is a Thabo and nothing more.

You can desire this guy to be a PG (dont know why he has none of the skills or mindset to do it). He needs to find some kind of offensive game.

Last edited by Rameek : 05-06-2014 at 09:38 PM.
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Old 05-07-2014, 02:00 AM   #17
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Default Re: Shumpert only has star potential as a Point Gaurd with the Knicks

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Originally Posted by Rameek
All he is to this point is a defensive specialist at best so at this point the kid is a Thabo and nothing more.

You can desire this guy to be a PG (dont know why he has none of the skills or mindset to do it). He needs to find some kind of offensive game.
Positions are defensive. It's about who you cover- and I want him covering guards and disrupting flow. I agree w you on his offensive game. But if he still needs to do something why not move the ball and make entry passes?
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Old 05-07-2014, 05:03 AM   #18
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Default Re: Shumpert only has star potential as a Point Gaurd with the Knicks

Entry passes are a skill like anything else, and good entry passes are always in demand. I don't think trivializing them lends much weight to your analysis.

I also don't think I've seen anything to suggest that Iman Shumpert is particularly capable of making good entry passes. It's possible, but let's not assume it as a given.
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Old 05-07-2014, 11:11 AM   #19
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Default Re: Shumpert only has star potential as a Point Gaurd with the Knicks

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Originally Posted by Scoooter
Entry passes are a skill like anything else, and good entry passes are always in demand. I don't think trivializing them lends much weight to your analysis.

I also don't think I've seen anything to suggest that Iman Shumpert is particularly capable of making good entry passes. It's possible, but let's not assume it as a given.
didn't mean to seem to trivialize. I'm serious about entry passes and the importance they may take in a different offense esp if triangle. He has the advantage of size to start with. (At pg)
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Old 05-07-2014, 06:37 PM   #20
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Default Re: Shumpert only has star potential as a Point Gaurd with the Knicks

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Originally Posted by el gringos
didn't mean to seem to trivialize. I'm serious about entry passes and the importance they may take in a different offense esp if triangle. He has the advantage of size to start with. (At pg)
At this point not knowing the coach yet no one can definitively say what players position anyone will play. If " Big Chief Triangle" will hire a Triangle coach.

The triangle offense isnt a difficult offense but it requires some intelligence, willing passers, capable passers, and shooters.

Shump wont be anything without some NBA offense (See Thabo a role player). Now I do think under Woody and that staff he hasnt progressed (under D'Antoni he looked better but everyone did). Lets see what happens with the next regime.

Last edited by Rameek : 05-07-2014 at 06:47 PM.
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Old 07-20-2014, 03:17 PM   #21
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Default Re: Shumpert only has star potential as a Point Gaurd with the Knicks

If Shumpert stays he stays as a pg/sg off the bench. What a more perfect backup to Calderon to come in and cover when Calderon is having problems defensively.

Calderon/shumpert
Jr smith
Carmelo/cleanthony
_________
Bargnani/Jason smith

If the blank spot can be filled in that's a hell of a rotation
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Old 07-20-2014, 04:09 PM   #22
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Default Re: Shumpert only has star potential as a Point Gaurd with the Knicks

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Originally Posted by el gringos
If Shumpert stays he stays as a pg/sg off the bench. What a more perfect backup to Calderon to come in and cover when Calderon is having problems defensively.

Calderon/shumpert
Jr smith
Carmelo/cleanthony
_________
Bargnani/Jason smith

If the blank spot can be filled in that's a hell of a rotation
At some point you will come out the haze and come to the realization that Shump isnt a PG and wont be doing that. He is going to be a back up SG/SF for defensive purposes.

Early will barely make the roster also the kid cant dribble.

Zen has already stated that he has a glut at SG and only maybe 2 SF's which is an issue he probably will address at some point.
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Old 07-20-2014, 07:50 PM   #23
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Default Re: Shumpert only has star potential as a Point Gaurd with the Knicks

Would you rather have shumpert covering a sf or a pg? Would you rather have shumpert or prigioni defending Kyrie or Rose?


Just don't be surprised if they try to play shumpert against guards. Oh wait you might be surprised if you don't even understand that positions are defensive and about matchups and that shumperts most advantageous matchups both ways come against pg's
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Old 07-21-2014, 01:13 AM   #24
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Default Re: Shumpert only has star potential as a Point Gaurd with the Knicks

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Originally Posted by el gringos
Would you rather have shumpert covering a sf or a pg? Would you rather have shumpert or prigioni defending Kyrie or Rose?


Just don't be surprised if they try to play shumpert against guards. Oh wait you might be surprised if you don't even understand that positions are defensive and about matchups and that shumperts most advantageous matchups both ways come against pg's
Really you're questioning my understanding? Maybe you havent gotten the memo yet Shump hasn't been that guy since his injury. Obviously you dont watch the Knicks enough to know he guarda SG/SF's.
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Old 07-21-2014, 04:45 AM   #25
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Default Re: Shumpert only has star potential as a Point Gaurd with the Knicks

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Really you're questioning my understanding? Maybe you havent gotten the memo yet Shump hasn't been that guy since his injury. Obviously you dont watch the Knicks enough to know he guarda SG/SF's.
I'm not questioning your understanding of what the Knicks have done over the last few. Every minute shumpert has played was with Felton, prigioni, or both. Of course he defends sg's or sf's.


I'm just saying he would have the most advantages as a defender against guards.


Who do you think would defend pg's better- shumpert or prigioni?


The best 3 guys defensively that the Knicks could go with 1-3 is shumpert/jr/Carmelo
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Old 07-21-2014, 12:42 PM   #26
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Default Re: Shumpert only has star potential as a Point Gaurd with the Knicks

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Originally Posted by el gringos
I'm not questioning your understanding of what the Knicks have done over the last few. Every minute shumpert has played was with Felton, prigioni, or both. Of course he defends sg's or sf's.


I'm just saying he would have the most advantages as a defender against guards.


Who do you think would defend pg's better- shumpert or prigioni?


The best 3 guys defensively that the Knicks could go with 1-3 is shumpert/jr/Carmelo
Prigs didnt guard terrible last year. Shump is going to come off the bench and guard whoever to be honest. But if Shump is guarding the PG then who is Caldy going to guard?
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Old 07-21-2014, 03:29 PM   #27
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Default Re: Shumpert only has star potential as a Point Gaurd with the Knicks

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Originally Posted by Rameek
Prigs didnt guard terrible last year. Shump is going to come off the bench and guard whoever to be honest. But if Shump is guarding the PG then who is Caldy going to guard?
If shumpert comes off the bench for Calderon, who does Calderon cover? I guess Kurt Rambis or prigioni.


Calderon won't cover pg only. At 6-5 he will cover the lesser of guards 1 or 2. Whether they use shumpert as a backup pg or not he will still cover pg's more than last year.


Maybe you're right and early isn't ready- I guess in that case it make a shumpert more likely to defend 3's, but that's out of necessity not best fit
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Old 09-03-2014, 01:57 PM   #28
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Default Re: Shumpert only has star potential as a Point Gaurd with the Knicks

Wish I wouldn't have titled it w the word "star". It came from most of you believing he was a star in the making.


Funny thing is that as all of your opinions of him have plummeted my view of him has stayed the same. His highest ceiling (esp now, w this team and this system) is as a pg.


Shumpert is the perfect change up from Calderon, and keeps the team big. Does anyone want to discuss the difference I shumpert and prigioni in terms of who should be getting backup pg minutes.


Or do you guys want to wait for the first week of training camp to act surprised they are playing him at pg
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Old 09-03-2014, 05:53 PM   #29
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Default Re: Shumpert only has star potential as a Point Gaurd with the Knicks

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Originally Posted by el gringos
Wish I wouldn't have titled it w the word "star". It came from most of you believing he was a star in the making.


Funny thing is that as all of your opinions of him have plummeted my view of him has stayed the same. His highest ceiling (esp now, w this team and this system) is as a pg.


Shumpert is the perfect change up from Calderon, and keeps the team big. Does anyone want to discuss the difference I shumpert and prigioni in terms of who should be getting backup pg minutes.


Or do you guys want to wait for the first week of training camp to act surprised they are playing him at pg

I'll wait until the first few games to see if your infinite wisdom should prove fallible. I don't believe Iman is a PG. Let that suffice for now.
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Old 09-04-2014, 06:27 PM   #30
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Default Re: Shumpert only has star potential as a Point Gaurd with the Knicks

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Originally Posted by el gringos
Wish I wouldn't have titled it w the word "star". It came from most of you believing he was a star in the making.


Funny thing is that as all of your opinions of him have plummeted my view of him has stayed the same. His highest ceiling (esp now, w this team and this system) is as a pg.


Shumpert is the perfect change up from Calderon, and keeps the team big. Does anyone want to discuss the difference I shumpert and prigioni in terms of who should be getting backup pg minutes.


Or do you guys want to wait for the first week of training camp to act surprised they are playing him at pg
You honestly can not discuss what gives you the notion the guy is a PG more or less differentiate who should get minutes as a back up.

Explain to everyone what abilities and skills and production you have seen with Shumpert playing this role, would be a good start.

Once you've done that I am sure you will have a good discussion about why he isnt one. Or possibly you can change someone's mind that he should be.

For example I know you are going to say in the Triangle System the PG isnt necessary a key but you would only be referring to the basic formation but there are hundreds of variations that would require a great ball handler and decision maker.
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