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Old 06-27-2006, 02:16 AM   #61
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Vince isn't in the elite three because he hasn't one a championship. Kobe has three, Wade has one and a finals mvp, and lebron can be excused because he is still very, very young, and will certainly win one within the next 5 years.


VC is not great because he can't will his team to a championship. If you look at his current team, the duo of Carter and Jefferson could certainly be compared to Jordan and Pippen, with the exception that the Nets have one of the best point guards of all time on their team. So, in that regard, the Nets are more talented and still don't have anything to show for it. That is why VC is not great. Jordan in his prime could have willed that same team(if he were in Vinces place) to a championship this year.
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Old 07-09-2006, 08:52 PM   #62
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meh no one here said Carter was "great"


most, if not all of us Net fans never really cared about Carter until he came to rescue our team from mediocrity in 04-05. now he is our leading scorer and our leader on the offense (though Kidd is the team leader) and we support him 100%
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Old 07-10-2006, 01:15 AM   #63
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VC may not be in this so-called "Elite 3" but he IS top 3 in the league in sheer talent. Living out west in Utah, I rarely get a chance to see Carter play (we don't get raptors or nets games out here... crazy!), and I always seem to forget about him. But every time I see him play against the Jazz or on nationally televised games, I get a swift reminder and think, "What... a... freak. Why on EARTH isn't this guy worshipped?" I don't know, maybe he plays like crap sometimes when i don't see him, but with that kind of talent, he SHOULD be taking his team far into the playoffs. And all I can chalk it up to is a lack of self-motivation. Put Kobe's or even Matt Harpring's work ethic into VC's body and you have an "Elite ONE."
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Old 07-10-2006, 10:11 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geeWiz15
The reason Vince isn't in this discussion is that Pierce and Arenas are both better players than Vince, and THEY'RE not in this discussion, so Vince is out by default.

I don't think Gilbert as a swingman, he is more Bilups kind of a guy.
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Old 07-10-2006, 11:07 AM   #65
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i go by the traditional definition of swingman: the ability to "Swing" between the 2 and 3 positions.

Gilbo is a combo guard.
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Old 07-12-2006, 01:41 PM   #66
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VC among swingmen is ranked about 3rd IMO

1. LeBron
2. Kobe
3. Vince

Wade is more of a 1/2 than a 2/3. When McGrady is healthy he knocks Vince down one to fourth.
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Old 07-12-2006, 02:35 PM   #67
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What separates him fron the Elite 3?

His mom!
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Old 07-19-2006, 04:07 PM   #68
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determination.
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Old 07-23-2006, 10:19 PM   #69
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Obviously defense...vince is lazy on D and focuses purly on offense...hes athletic enough to be a great defender but he doesnt apply himself as much say kobe and wade...he only plays when hes happy and that shows he doesnt have as much heart...i believe wade, kobe, and lebron would put there all in for any team they play...but mainly its his D and the fact that hes been in this league so long and hasnt showed hes ready to play defense consistently
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Old 07-24-2006, 03:23 PM   #70
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OK, firstly wade isnt a swingman.

secondly although they have talent and potential, wade and lebron are not 2 & 3. Tmac and pierce are. your not elite until youve done it for a long time.

lebron cant shoot like tmac and cant defend or come up clutch like pierce.

and 1 buzzer beater against bobcats is not clutch. kobe has been doing it for years, thats y he is clutch.

carter is not really that talented, like that mormon kid said. he's basically just athletic. he cant shoot, cant defend and cant think. wade and lebron are the same in the first two, but not in the third, which is why they are better than vc.

kobe is not only all nba in D like some1 said. he is the best shooting guard in defence and in offence, but his team needs his offence more than his defence right now. in terms of perimeter D, only artest and kirilenko are better. bowen is not because he is dirty. a good defender not only gets the statsbut does it properly.

finally 2/3's:

1.kobe
3.tmac
3.5. pierce
3.75 lebron
6.joe johnson
7.ginobili
7.5 carter
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Old 07-24-2006, 04:08 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phatshady_c4
OK, firstly wade isnt a swingman.

secondly although they have talent and potential, wade and lebron are not 2 & 3. Tmac and pierce are. your not elite until youve done it for a long time.

lebron cant shoot like tmac and cant defend or come up clutch like pierce.

and 1 buzzer beater against bobcats is not clutch. kobe has been doing it for years, thats y he is clutch.

carter is not really that talented, like that mormon kid said. he's basically just athletic. he cant shoot, cant defend and cant think. wade and lebron are the same in the first two, but not in the third, which is why they are better than vc.

kobe is not only all nba in D like some1 said. he is the best shooting guard in defence and in offence, but his team needs his offence more than his defence right now. in terms of perimeter D, only artest and kirilenko are better. bowen is not because he is dirty. a good defender not only gets the statsbut does it properly.

finally 2/3's:

1.kobe
3.tmac
3.5. pierce
3.75 lebron
6.joe johnson
7.ginobili
7.5 carter

:stupid:

First of all...lebron and wade are bad defenders. Second of all Vince Carter definitely CAN shoot. Third, You're RETARDED for putting ginobli, Joe Johnson, and PAul Pierce as better than Carter. Also do you know how to count?
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Old 07-24-2006, 05:46 PM   #72
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VC has to win something to be considered elite
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Old 07-27-2006, 03:26 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phatshady_c4
OK, firstly wade isnt a swingman.

secondly although they have talent and potential, wade and lebron are not 2 & 3. Tmac and pierce are. your not elite until youve done it for a long time.

lebron cant shoot like tmac and cant defend or come up clutch like pierce.

and 1 buzzer beater against bobcats is not clutch. kobe has been doing it for years, thats y he is clutch.

carter is not really that talented, like that mormon kid said. he's basically just athletic. he cant shoot, cant defend and cant think. wade and lebron are the same in the first two, but not in the third, which is why they are better than vc.

kobe is not only all nba in D like some1 said. he is the best shooting guard in defence and in offence, but his team needs his offence more than his defence right now. in terms of perimeter D, only artest and kirilenko are better. bowen is not because he is dirty. a good defender not only gets the statsbut does it properly.

finally 2/3's:

1.kobe
3.tmac
3.5. pierce
3.75 lebron
6.joe johnson
7.ginobili
7.5 carter

Wow you say that Vince Carter can't shoot. Man that is just dumb. You put Ginobili and Johnson ahead of him. Carter is WAY better than them. I also think that he is better than Pierce but they bothe are superstars in the league. I'll admit that Carter isn't very good on D but he is an amazing offensive player. You made some dumb statments in your post.
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Old 07-27-2006, 08:42 PM   #74
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list as it stands now

1. Kobe
2. Lebron
3. Wade
4. Carter (due to TMac's health)
5. AI
6. TMAc
7. Pierce
8. Arenas
9. Ginobli
10. Richardson
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