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Old 01-24-2008, 10:56 PM   #91
Qwyjibo
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Default Re: Are there really Toronto Raptors fans out there who still want TJ Ford over Calde

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Originally Posted by bada bing
as I said, without Calderon the Raptors are not a better team. There is no other discussion to that. Calderon is an integral part of this team. As it stands right now, which should be the discussion, the Raptors badly need Calderon in their rotation. I cannot emphasize that any further.

Maybe the situation will change later, but as of right now, the Raptors need to sign Calderon and keep him on this team.
That all depends on who they can get for Calderon and if the Raptors go with Ford for the future.

As I've stated, I think Ford is the better player now and has more potential. It'll be up to Colangelo to decide whether he risks Ford's health for the bigger possible reward or risks giving up Ford's talent (probably for not a lot in return) due to fear of injuries and plays it safe with Calderon. They'll have to go one of these directions because the Raptors don't have enough talent elsewhere to be able to keep a luxury such as 2 starting point guards and still be a great team.
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Old 01-24-2008, 11:05 PM   #92
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Default Re: Are there really Toronto Raptors fans out there who still want TJ Ford over Calde

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Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
That all depends on who they can get for Calderon and if the Raptors go with Ford for the future.

As I've stated, I think Ford is the better player now and has more potential. It'll be up to Colangelo to decide whether he risks Ford's health for the bigger possible reward or risks giving up Ford's talent (probably for not a lot in return) due to fear of injuries and plays it safe with Calderon. They'll have to go one of these directions because the Raptors don't have enough talent elsewhere to be able to keep a luxury such as 2 starting point guards and still be a great team.
See, neither of these comments are true (IMO), so why talk like it's a fact and not just your random opinion?

A couple people have challenged you to provide credible evidence that supports Ford being the better talent to the extent (if any extent at all) you keep speaking on. But you continue to ignore or just refuse to explain your stance.

Regardless, all I want you to do is either provide data or stop saying this nonsense about Ford having a higher ceiling than Calderon like you know something no one else doesn't.
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Old 01-24-2008, 11:11 PM   #93
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Default Re: Are there really Toronto Raptors fans out there who still want TJ Ford over Calde

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See, neither of these comments are true (IMO), so why talk like it's a fact and just your random opinion?

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As I've stated, I think
Doesn't that imply that it's my OPINION? Besides, if it is my opinion then to me it's pretty much a fact. Why would I spout of all that without believing it to be true?

I already posted both players stats as starters earlier in this thread. They showed Ford had comparable #'s in 10 less minutes per game. 10 minutes is a lot. I've said that Calderon is a better shooter but Ford is a better passer/playmaker (since you don't actually watch the games, I don't know how you can criticize any of this). Ford is also a far better defensive player. The injury is the only reason I can see people choosing Calderon over Ford. And that's fine, like I said it's a risk to keep Ford over Calderon because of this.

Do you even read entire posts or just pick out parts you don't like but ignore things that make sense?

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Old 01-24-2008, 11:18 PM   #94
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Default Re: Are there really Toronto Raptors fans out there who still want TJ Ford over Calde

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Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
Doesn't that imply that it's my OPINION? Besides, if it is my opinion then to me it's pretty much a fact. Why would I spout of all that without believing it to be true?

I already posted both players stats as starters earlier in this thread. They showed Ford had comparable #'s in 10 less minutes per game. 10 minutes is a lot. I've said that Calderon is a better shooter but Ford is a better passer/playmaker (since you don't actually watch the games, I don't know how you can criticize any of this). Ford is also a far better defensive player. The injury is the only reason I can see people choosing Calderon over Ford. And that's fine, like I said it's a risk to keep Ford over Calderon because of this.

Do you even read entire posts or just pick out parts you don't like but ignore things that make sense?
What about ast:to ratio's...do you care about that? Raw assists numbers? PER and EFF ratings?

Do you care about any of this?

And for the record, Calderon has averaged 31 minutes for the entire season. I don't know why you keep mentioning a 10 minute differential.
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Old 01-24-2008, 11:33 PM   #95
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Default Re: Are there really Toronto Raptors fans out there who still want TJ Ford over Calde

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What about ast:to ratio's...do you care about that? Raw assists numbers? PER and EFF ratings?

Do you care about any of this?

And for the record, Calderon has averaged 31 minutes for the entire season. I don't know why you keep mentioning a 10 minute differential.

10 minutes when looking at the their minutes as STARTERS.

As for the more complicated metrics, show me some #'s and then talk. I know Calderon has the higher EFF but Ford has the higher Roland Rating. You're going to have them pointing both ways.

Ast/TO ratio means little when you actually watch their games (again, you'd be lost here). Ford plays an aggressive high risk high reward game. It will create turnovers but with a good smart PG like Ford, the good will outweigh the bad. All the top PG's tend to turn the ball over. It's simply the result of aggressive play. Calderon plays a passive game where his mistakes don't result in turnovers. He rarely gets into the lane to break defenses down and rarely makes a riskier pass. That might be a great fit for a team with a star guard that can create for himself and others but IMO it's not the best fit for the Raptors. I've always said he'd be a fantastic fit alongside guys like Kobe, Wade and Lebron. I wish he'd always play the way he played vs the Celtics last night. His mistakes like passing to poor shooters like Moon or Delfino rather than looking for his own shot with 5 secs left on the shot clock don't results in turnovers but are boneheaded nonetheless.
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Old 01-25-2008, 12:44 AM   #96
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Default Re: Are there really Toronto Raptors fans out there who still want TJ Ford over Calde

Why are people acting like TJ was some turnover machine...could y'all look up the stats on TJ please........Infact the Celtic game where Jose shone he had more turnovers than usual but was in the lane making more of an impact. Instead of merely swinging the ball....becuz they Raps shoot so many gott damn threes you can rack up assists (read Bargnani) just catching the ball on the perimeter and passing to the left every time.
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Old 01-25-2008, 02:15 AM   #97
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Default Re: Are there really Toronto Raptors fans out there who still want TJ Ford over Calde

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Originally Posted by KWALI
Why are people acting like TJ was some turnover machine...could y'all look up the stats on TJ please........Infact the Celtic game where Jose shone he had more turnovers than usual but was in the lane making more of an impact. Instead of merely swinging the ball....becuz they Raps shoot so many gott damn threes you can rack up assists (read Bargnani) just catching the ball on the perimeter and passing to the left every time.
I find that funny as well. TJ Ford is averaging 2.4 turnovers a game. That is not a lot by any means, especially when you consider the way that Ford plays (i.e. agressive, fast paced game)

Calderon is averaging 1.8 turnovers a game which is fantastic, but overrated if you actually watch Calderon play. It is hard to turn the ball over when you play such a passive game. (i.e. pulling up on fast breaks, making conservative plays)

If you compare the turnovers it is only a measley 0.6 difference and when you factor in the complete opposite playing styles, I don't find Calderon's turnover numbers so much better then Ford's.

(Not sure if those are the exact turnover numbers. Last I remember those are what they were so I just went with that.)

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