MJ's 1988 DPOY is now being "Questioned". HOME vs ROAD Steals has twice as much Gap

[gengiskhan]

like I said, 3000, 200, 100 was established for perimeter D.

You ignore the history maker once, cant do it again.

You gotta award him next.

Westbrook benefited with MVP like that.

Man calls MJ an "elite" defender. I agree.

Also, there were multiple stats reporter per NBA Game.

Regarding Pip, Just lke Pip-horace friendship turned sour quick.

Pip resented MJ deep down. He was straight up jealous. for being a Robin.

He enjoyed all that practice upbringing. learning new tricks in practice, behind close curtains.

But he wanted equal status. MJ put him where he was. As a kid bruh. And he acted like one too

in 1994 and 1995. quitting on team. chair throwing. If Pip complains about "stocks" leaning towards MJ.

thats the least of my concern. thats typical Pip, beatching and resenting.

Now you gotta open the pandora's box of all 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s, '10s, '20s "stocks" reports. all of them.

Because at the end, it was all "subjective" reporting to the letter of the law. and there were multiple scorekeepers per NBA game.

[sdot_thadon]

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Thread Cliffs


Play-by-play information is required to know which plays to dispute and match a player's 5 steals from the boxscore to plays in the game - otherwise there's no way to know if you're looking at the right plays

Only if you cant perform basic observation and counting functions. You dont need play by play to determine 3 dead ball turnovers were called steals and that Mj ended up with 3 steals that couldnt be found watching tape. Thats the point.

like I said, 3000, 200, 100 was established for perimeter D.

You ignore the history maker once, cant do it again.

You gotta award him next.

Westbrook benefited with MVP like that.

Man calls MJ an "elite" defender. I agree.

Also, there were multiple stats reporter per NBA Game.

Regarding Pip, Just lke Pip-horace friendship turned sour quick.

Pip resented MJ deep down. He was straight up jealous. for being a Robin.

He enjoyed all that practice upbringing. learning new tricks in practice, behind close curtains.

But he wanted equal status. MJ put him where he was. As a kid bruh. And he acted like one too

in 1994 and 1995. quitting on team. chair throwing. If Pip complains about "stocks" leaning towards MJ.

thats the least of my concern. thats typical Pip, beatching and resenting.

Now you gotta open the pandora's box of all 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s, '10s, '20s "stocks" reports. all of them.

Because at the end, it was all "subjective" reporting to the letter of the law. and there were multiple scorekeepers per NBA game.

I wouldn't call it pandoras box because the modern game scrutinized the stats more and actually audits them. Guys get things taken away in the boxscores after games all the time. I get the need to rope others in, if I'm an Mj stan though.

[3ba11]

all players have one-offs of massive inflation such as 120% and 73% higher blocks for Lebron as a rookie and sophomore, or 82% higher stocks for 88' Jordan, or 50-65% higher for 90' Hakeem, 22' AD and 23' Jaren Jackson... But these are all one-offs, otherwise every other year of their career had normal home inflation, which decreased over time as road records improved.. So the home inflation isn't due to bad record keeping - it's due to bad road records/conditions that improved over time, while the one-offs of massive inflation that every player has could be due to any number of reasons other than cheating, such as personal issues affecting home/road performance.

[3ba11]

The most annoying thing was when Ephraim Salaam was on the Odd Couple and he was supposed to be the die-hard Bulls fan - but when Haberstroh came on, the first thing Ephraim said in rebuttle was "well okay, if we reach into the trophy case and take away the DPOY trophy"..... wtf?... that's exactly what Klutch wants - to take the trophy away and this idiot is doing exactly that with his response... his response should've been to refute the study entirely since it's bogus and not possible to be done.. let alone the 5-game sample which says that MJ averaged 1.5 steals on the year.

[1987_Lakers]

The most annoying thing was when Ephraim Salaam was on the Odd Couple and he was supposed to be the die-hard Bulls fan - but when Haberstroh came on, the first thing Ephraim said in rebuttle was "well okay, if we reach into the trophy case and take away the DPOY trophy"..... wtf?... that's exactly what Klutch wants - to take the trophy away and this idiot is doing exactly that with his response... his response should've been to refute the study entirely since it's bogus and not possible to be done.. let alone the 5-game sample which says that MJ averaged 1.5 steals on the year.

It's over. MJ is slowly getting exposed.

[3ba11]

Play-by-play information is required to know what plays to dispute and match a player's 5 steals from the boxscore to plays in the game - otherwise there's no way to know if you're looking at the right plays, thus compounding the errors.. A close call that you assume was awarded to Jordan could've already been awarded to the other guy... So it isn't possible to do what Haberstroh claims until 1997 when play-by-play information began.. But even then, stats like steals, assists and blocks are largely subjective, so there's no reason to believe that the 2nd subjective judgement is any better than the 1st one.

The live-ball turnover methodology is innovative but it isn't believable that Jordan's steals were more than an entire team's live-ball turnovers.. So it requires showing your work, which hasn't been done because the games weren't posted or made available to anyone outside of the author, aka fraud.

Ultimately, all players have one-offs of massive inflation such as 120% and 73% higher blocks for Lebron as a rookie and sophomore, or 82% higher stocks for 88' Jordan, or 50-65% higher for 90' Hakeem, 22' AD and 23' Jaren Jackson... But these are all one-offs, otherwise every other year of their career had normal home inflation, which decreased over time as road records improved.. So the home inflation isn't due to bad record keeping - it's due to bad road records/conditions that improved over time, while the one-offs of massive inflation that every player has could be due to any number of reasons other than league-wide cheating, such as personal issues affecting home/road performance.

[3ba11]

It's over. MJ is slowly getting exposed.

You proved MJ was GOAT actually with your statement about how big deficits at the 3-7 roster spots is "too much to overcome", except MJ did exactly that for 6 Finals.

[sdot_thadon]

The statistical dive in this one may be worse than the article tbh. Ouch.

[3ba11]

The statistical dive in this one may be worse than the article tbh. Ouch.

lol so true - he says that "everyone says that jordan guarded the best player, so let's see how he did defending all the best players".. then he takes the next 7 hours to list MJ vs Dominique... Mj vs Bird.... MJ vs someone else that he didn't guard as the primary defender... it's hilarious once you realize that he's just going to keep going on like this for hours.

[sdot_thadon]

lol so true - he says that "everyone says that jordan guarded the best player, so let's see how he did defending all the best players".. then he takes the next 7 hours to list MJ vs Dominique... Mj vs Bird.... MJ vs someone else that he didn't guard as the primary defender... it's hilarious once you realize that he's just going to keep going on like this for hours.

I'm pretty sure he said he used synergy tracking data, and I completely expect you to have no effing clue what that is, but Google is your friend.

[Honor Boost]

Been happening forever even now.

[3ba11]

I'm pretty sure he said he used synergy tracking data, and I completely expect you to have no effing clue what that is, but Google is your friend.

he posted bbalref data showing the averages of Bird, Barkley, and Aguirre and said that Jordan guarded them as the primary defender because "Jordan fans always say he guards the best player on the other team"..... So he literally listed all the best players from other teams - he might even have centers on there - after he listed a bunch of frontcourt players I turned it off and laughed

[3ba11]

I'll make a thread that shows the averages of the guys that MJ defended as the primary defender, aka Harper, Dumars, Isiah, Starks, Magic, Drexler, Steve Smith, Bobby Phills, Nick Anderson, Majerle, Hornacek, Rod Strickland, Payton, Hawkins, Reggie Miller and a few others.

He held nearly all his primary matchups to 35-43% shooting - an unprecedented standard of individual defense, along with goat help defense and leadership

[sdot_thadon]

he posted bbalref data showing the averages of Bird, Barkley, and Aguirre and said that Jordan guarded them as the primary defender because "Jordan fans always say he guards the best player on the other team"..... So he literally listed all the best players from other teams - he might even have centers on there - after he listed a bunch of frontcourt players I turned it off and laughed

Yeah you're completely lost on what synergy stats reports lol. Do some research.

[gengiskhan]

Been happening forever even now.

LBJs entire assist and rebound stats are highly questionable from last 5 seasons.

Westbrook Triple double season after season in OKC were straight stat padding.

Hakeem 1988 blocks were padded like crazy.

People forget. Cuz of the 1984 Draft and Sam Boyie bust, There was lot of bad blood between Bulls, Rockets and Blazers. and this did not go away easily.

in 1985 itself, #1 Hakeem was suppose to beat #3 MJ for ROY comfortably. It was really 7'0" vs 6'6" challenge. Hakeem also had twin tower Ralph to help out.

what really helped out 1985 MJ was that 1984 Olympics. This is where Knight indicated over and over that at 21, MJ has PEAKED!. beating NBA allstars. 1984 Hakeem missed out because of US citizenship I guess. Should've played for 1984 Nigerian team imo. if they made it. not sure.

Rumor had it 1985 itself, rookie Hakeem "stocks" were padded at home seeing rookie MJ taking NBA by storm. Expectations were, #1 Hakeem will finish over #3 for ROY honors.

1985 "stocks" keepers helped Rookie Hakeem out and Ralph got punished. for 82 games, Hakeem ended up with 12 RPG over Sampsons 10 RPG. Ralph even complained. inside scooop was, rookie MJ bulls so week, he is up to 6.5 RPG at 6'6" with 6 APG, he was surely gonna eat into rookie Hakeem ROY votes because of Ralph's help in front court.