MJ's 1988 DPOY is now being "Questioned". HOME vs ROAD Steals has twice as much Gap

[sdot_thadon]

You're down to 1 play now? i rest my case..

Nah but you can't answer that one, so why even add to it? And you should rest your case you've been made a fool here.

[3ba11]

Nah but you can't answer that one, so why even add to it? And you should rest your case you've been made a fool here.

Haberstroh was debunked thoroughly and it's just amazing that FS1 ran with it and now not a peep because the point was to just get it on Google searches

no one cares or ever respected Haberstho's review of the plays because it's impossible to know which plays without play-by-play data and these are subjective stats that can't be overruled by a 2nd subjective review.. even Haberstroh himself didn't respect his own review or he would've chosen games we could verify and done more than a "night-before-class" sample size ... They just wanted to get the Google searches saying it was a fraudulent dpoy.. now not a peep.. like it never happened

But the reality is that everyone has normal home inflation, which has been decreasing over time as road records and conditions improved... The one-offs of massive inflation that everyone has like rookie Lebron or 22' AD.or 88' MJ could be due to any number of factors, such as personal issues affecting home/road performance for that particular year... the point is that there are much better reasons than league -wide cheating by scorekeepers to explain normal home inflation and the one-offs of massive inflation

[3ba11]

Everyone's stats show normal home inflation, which has been decreasing over time as road records and conditions improved... In addition to this normal inflation, there are one-offs of massive home inflation that everyone has like 120% inflation of Lebron's blocks as a rookie, or 50-80% inflation of stocks for 22' AD, 88' Jordan, 90' Hakeem, or 23' Jackson Jr - these one-offs could be due to any number of factors including personal issues affecting home/road performance for that particular year... So the point is that there are much better reasons than league-wide cheating by scorekeepers to explain normal home inflation and the one-offs of massive inflation, smh

^^^ mods lock it up.. it's done

[Da_Realist]

Haberstroh was debunked thoroughly

You know they pretend not to see that. Uncut Hoops cut up his assumptions, ripped open his bias and exposed his lack of integrity. Haberstroh was exposed as a hoping, wishing, please give us something against MJ even if I need to go back 40 years Nick Wright type fanboy.

[sdot_thadon]

I'm waiting to see this "debunking". Maybe you guys got debunking confused with saying "everybody did it" and " I don't believe his research,but I won't do my own" all anybody has done so far is disagree without their own facts or research and try to redirect the attention elsewhere. Beat the data, that's how you debunk something. You sure you guys grew up in the 90s?

[1987_Lakers]

I'm waiting to see this "debunking". Maybe you guys got debunking confused with saying "everybody did it" and " I don't believe his research,but I won't do my own" all anybody has done so far is disagree without their own facts or research and try to redirect the attention elsewhere. Beat the data, that's how you debunk something. You sure you guys grew up in the 90s?

[sdot_thadon]

As a matter of fact the only reason this thread is still going is because they can't explain how dead ball turnovers became Jordan steals and how that is ok.

At some point some brave soul is going to verify the whole season and readjust the advanced stats. That's gonna hurt worse.

[eliteballer]

As far as I'm concerned this means we should be questioning Jordan's other stats that year too, particularly assists.

[RRR3]

As far as I'm concerned this means we should be questioning Jordan's other stats that year too, particularly assists.

Congrats bro. Kobe is officially the best SG ever now that we know MJ was a complete fraud.

[gengiskhan]

Congrats bro. Kobe is officially the best SG ever now that we know MJ was a complete fraud.

How can you have a rapist as best SG ever.

Didn't he pay the ultimate price as Karma eventually caught up and him and his beloved daughter, a sure shot WNBA all Time Great, as both crashed and burned to ashes for ruining some girl's life in Colorado hotel room.

If MJ did anything remotely close to this, will your kind ever forgive him?

[sdot_thadon]

As far as I'm concerned this means we should be questioning Jordan's other stats that year too, particularly assists.

Don't you dare touch his triple double streak

[3ba11]

As far as I'm concerned this means we should be questioning Jordan's other stats that year too, particularly assists.

In 1988, only 2 teams had positive road records compared to half the league today (15 teams).. So normal levels of home inflation are standard and have been decreasing over time as road records and conditions improved... The one-offs of massive inflation that everyone has like rookie Lebron, 90' Hakeem, 22' AD, 88' Jordan or 23 Jaren Jackson Jr. could be due to any number of factors, such as personal issues affecting home/road performance for that particular year... the point is that there are much better reasons than league-wide cheating by scorekeepers to explain normal home inflation and the one-offs of massive inflation

And btw, no one cares or ever respected Haberstho's review of the plays because it's impossible to know WHICH plays without play-by-play data and these are subjective stats that can't be overruled by a 2nd subjective review.. even Haberstroh himself didn't respect his own review or he would've chosen games we could verify and done more than a "night-before-class" sample size ... They just wanted to get the Google searches saying it was a fraudulent dpoy.. mission accomplished and now we don't hear anything - not a peep... but in 10 years and probably a lot sooner, they will be gone and not findable by a standard google search.

Uncut Hoops also invalidated Haberstroh's 6-game sample by doing a 7-game sample in 97' where we actually have the play-by-play data and therefore know which plays were credited as Jordan steals.. He found that 19 of the 20 steals in the 7-game sample were accurate and he provided the sourcing for the game footage and the plays were verified by play-by-play data.

[sdot_thadon]

In 1988, only 2 teams had positive road records compared to half the league today (15 teams).. So normal levels of home inflation are standard and have been decreasing over time as road records and conditions improved... The one-offs of massive inflation that everyone has like rookie Lebron, 90' Hakeem, 22' AD, 88' Jordan or 23 Jaren Jackson Jr. could be due to any number of factors, such as personal issues affecting home/road performance for that particular year... the point is that there are much better reasons than league-wide cheating by scorekeepers to explain normal home inflation and the one-offs of massive inflation

And btw, no one cares or ever respected Haberstho's review of the plays because it's impossible to know WHICH plays without play-by-play data and these are subjective stats that can't be overruled by a 2nd subjective review.. even Haberstroh himself didn't respect his own review or he would've chosen games we could verify and done more than a "night-before-class" sample size ... They just wanted to get the Google searches saying it was a fraudulent dpoy.. mission accomplished and now we don't hear anything - not a peep... but in 10 years and probably a lot sooner, they will be gone and not findable by a standard google search.

Uncut Hoops also invalidated Haberstroh's 6-game sample by doing a 7-game sample in 97' where we actually have the play-by-play data and therefore know which plays were credited as Jordan steals.. He found that 19 of the 20 steals in the 7-game sample were accurate and he provided the sourcing for the game footage and the plays were verified by play-by-play data.

Hey just checking in to see if you've ever found the explanation for how the dead ball turnovers ended up being Mj steals? If not stfu.

[3ba11]

Hey just checking in to see if you've ever found the explanation for how the dead ball turnovers ended up being Mj steals? If not stfu.

They weren't

Ultimately, no one knows what you're talking about because "dead-ball turnovers" have never been reported before anywhere in history.. Haberstroh tried to repot a new stat because there's no reason to accept his subjective review of previously-reported stats and he also lacks play-by-play data to identify the plays that Jordan was credited with a steal.. aka he doesn't know which plays to dispute, so he claimed to count all the live-ball turnovers and then say Jordan's reported turnovers was higher than this.

Sorry - this junior high crap doesn't fly because he didn't provide the games to verify such an absurd claim.. It's absurd to think Jordan's steals would ever be higher than another team's live-ball turnovers, so verification is required to say the sky is pink, don't you think?

And why were Lebron's blocks inflated 120% at home as a rookie and 73% as a sophomore?. that's more inflation than any of Jordan's blocks or steals.. We also see current players get credited with assists that would never have been credited before.. All previously-recorded assists should be multiplied by a factor of like .7 or something to make it fair compared to prior eras

So again, the normal levels of home inflation are standard and have been decreasing over time as road records and conditions improved - this explains a normal level of inflation, while the one-offs of massive inflation like rookie Lebron, 90' Hakeem, 22' AD, 88' Jordan, 86' Robertson or 23 Jaren Jackson Jr. could be due to any number of factors, such as personal issues affecting home/road performance for that particular year... the point is that there are much better reasons than league-wide cheating to explain normal home inflation and the one-offs of massive inflation

[sdot_thadon]

No, i can't explain how they credited those deadball turnovers as steals so im going 1) lie about the contents of the article and hope no one notices and 2)move the goalposts,yet again in another embarrassing retreat

Yeah just as I figured. 24 second violation, dribbled off foot out of bounds and pass off fingers out of bounds = 3 Jordam steals. Irrefutable.