ISH all-time draft thread

[Im Still Ballin]

You included years with Shaq.

As a comparison...

[RRR3]

As a comparison...

That wasn't made clear.

[warriorfan]

rrr3 is a low iq psychopath

[RRR3]

Not my Godbe. NOT MY GODBEEEE!!!!!!

[warriorfan]

you are f.ucking weird bro

[RRR3]

You made an alt for the sole purpose of harassing me and another poster, but yeah I'm the weird one.

[Im Still Ballin]

Basketball is more than "how many three points shooters you have", but having them in today's era keeps defenders honest. In today's league if you run any line-up that lack shooters defenses will exploit that, they will just key in on the star players without facing much consequences. And with all due respect to ISB, he ran a Shaq-Russell lineup in one of our previous drafts. I pointed out to him that having Russell play the 4 takes away some of his rim protection and it makes life harder for Shaq on offense since teams could zero in on Shaq since Russell wouldn't provide you any spacing. After the draft, when we ran the poll on realgm multiple users pointed out the same thing when evaluating his team.

Just responding to this now. Took me a while to find the thread with the entire teams listed from that all-time draft. I think it's important to look at the entire roster of a team, not just two players. I'm sure everyone would agree.

I believe the stipulation was for today's rules. Here's the team I drafted:

Shaquille O'Neal - Patrick Ewing
Bill Russell - Karl Malone
Scottie Pippen - Shane Battier
Reggie Miller - Michael Cooper
Steve Nash - Mark Price

I built a team that's heavy on strengths, fully aware that many would question the surface-level fit of O'Neal and Russell. It's also why I overloaded my guard rotation with superb shooters and playmakers. I took inspiration from GSW's two non-shooters with an all-time shooting back-court approach.

I think the Russell-O'Neal tandem works. What made Russell unique for his time was his mobile help defense, which he described as his horizontal game.

Here’s what former teammate Bill Sharman said about him in the 1967 documentary “Year to Remember:”

“Russell, who is a little quicker than [Wilt Chamberlain or Nate Thurmond], will go to the corners, block a shot or get back underneath and get the big rebound or again pick up the cutter.”

He could cover just about any opponent in front of him; here he is switching on to Oscar and then West, completely disrupting both:

He absolutely could and would thrive defensively playing the PF position similar to Garnett, Giannis, Draymond, and Davis. The role requires exceptional mobility to quickly roam, provide help defense, and recover. It also demands versatility to switch and defend guards and forwards out on the perimeter.

Bill has all the tools required: A+ positional size, freakish athleticism and mobility, defensive awareness/instinct/IQ, and a GOAT-level high-revving motor.

[Im Still Ballin]

Seeing as how we selected players at their peaks in the all-time draft, I get 1999-00 Shaq. This was the only season he was really engaged and intelligent on defense. 1999-00 LA had the #1 defense and a very strong -5.9 rDRtg; Shaq finished third in DPOY and made the All-Defense 2nd Team.

I'm very confident Russell and O'Neal would be a dominant defensive tandem.

In the modern era, I'd liken the stylistic combination to Giannis Antetokoumpo and Brook Lopez: a mobile, hyper-athletic PF and a shot-blocking drop-coverage center. Milwaukee had a generationally strong defense in 2019-20, posting a -7.7 rDRtg.

The offense is where I'll lose most people but I believe it would work. And I think this for three reasons:

1) Bill's offensive strengths (ball handling, passing, roll-and-cut finishing, face-up slashing, offensive rebounding) translate very well to today's league.
2) My guard rotation is overloaded with elite shooters and playmakers.
3) I don't believe in rigid rules/false narratives regarding shooting and spacing.

I see Russell functioning as a bigger Draymond in my team. He'd operate as the primary screener for Nash and Price, working in the short-roll/fake hand-off secondary delay actions while Shaq moves off-ball in the dunker's spot and the low-post.

O'Neal was a fantastic post-up player but he was an even better finisher around the basket. He'd feast with all the lobs, dump-offs, and cuts.

I also like Russell and O'Neal passing out of the high post and doing pinch-post actions with Nash and Price while the other sets screens off-ball for Reggie. Russell's high-low passes to O'Neal from the high post would be brutally effective. Shaq was great at passing out of the low post, and Russell would preoccupy the help defense on the weak side by screening for shooters and cutting off those actions.

I don't think Russell and O'Neal would get in the way of each other nearly as much as people would think. And if anything, Russell's uninterest in scoring works well with O'Neal, who loves to. Bill's not taking shots away from Shaq. That's a plus.

This idea that you absolutely need a specific amount of shooters on the floor is false. There have been many high-performing lineups in recent years with multiple non-shooters. I thought the Warriors made this clear to everyone but apparently not. Here are some examples:

(NBA.com and Basketball Reference lineup numbers vary slightly. This is due to a different possession formula I believe)



Even in Shaq's last season, he was part of the best starting lineup during the regular season. It featured two non-shooters (O'Neal + Rondo):



I still back my selections looking at my team from this all-time draft. My starting lineup just has too many strengths and the fit concerns are overblown. My bench gives me lineup, matchup, and scheme flexibility.

[Im Still Ballin]

Also forgot to include GSW's 2022-23 starting lineup. Featuring two non-shooters (Green, Looney), it was statistically far and away the best starting five in the NBA.

2023: S. Curry - K. Thompson - D. Green - A. Wiggins - K. Looney

- 27 games played, 331 minutes played
- 128.0 ORtg; 106.1 DRtg; +21.9 Net Rating (1st [min. 80 minutes played])

[ArbitraryWater]

IMO:

Team 1 and 7 are the best.

Team 3 and 6 are the worst.

Rest inbetween.


I voted Team 7.

Can anyone give me a quick rundown on who the teams belong to or at least these 4.