Lebron James - 4 FMVPs - 2nd best Winner of all time

[3ba11]

I've already debunked these statements of yours. Your logic is wrong because you are saying it's better to lose BEFORE than finals than to lose in the finals. Lebron having 10 finals appearances and 4 FMVPs is better than having only 4 finals appearances and 4 FMVPs.

Again Mods - there are no valid rebuttals so far to the OP. We can close this thread out.

You have no response and lost - why are you acting like Lebron always made the Finals when he literally did the "decision" because he COULDN'T make the Finals??.. He was a 1-trick pony like Iverson or Dwight before he put the top 3 players in the conference on 1 team.. Both Lebron and Jordan have 9 losses before the Finals, but Lebron also has 4 lottery seasons, so Lebron has more losses before the Finals than just about anybody.... Certainly more than Jordan.

But the real point is that Lebron isn't capable of producing great teams that mostly win - regardless of who we surround him with, his team will barely win 50 games and be perennial underdog and loser on the championship level.. The only time Lebron won 60 games was when he received all-star spacing for his stiff-arm skillset (Mo Williams, Ray Allen).

Lebron is simply the biggest loser of all-time by virtue of the worst record on the championship level and also more bad losses than anyone in history (sweep losses, record losses, upset losses, goat chokes, goat meltdowns, losses with 2 all-star teammates, lock up in a loss (08')) - no one has more bad losses than Lebron.

[StrongLurk]

You have no response and lost - why are you acting like Lebron always made the Finals when he literally did the "decision" because he COULDN'T make the Finals??.. He was a 1-trick pony like Iverson or Dwight before he put the top 3 players in the conference on 1 team.. Both Lebron and Jordan have 9 losses before the Finals, but Lebron also has 4 lottery seasons, so Lebron has more losses before the Finals than just about anybody.... Certainly more than Jordan.

But the real point is that Lebron isn't capable of producing great teams that mostly win - regardless of who we surround him with, his team will barely win 50 games and be perennial underdog and loser on the championship level.. The only time Lebron won 60 games was when he received all-star spacing for his stiff-arm skillset (Mo Williams, Ray Allen).

Lebron is simply the biggest loser of all-time by virtue of the worst record on the championship level and also more bad losses than anyone in history (sweep losses, record losses, upset losses, goat chokes, goat meltdowns, losses with 2 all-star teammates, lock up in a loss (08')) - no one has more bad losses than Lebron.

I literally debunked everything you said multiple times in this thread. Even in this post, you are literally agreeing with me that only Jordan is a better winner than Lebron in the 3 point era .

And wow, you even melted down and made another thread because you couldn't handle the fact that I am right.

You can't "debunk" 4 finals MVPs no matter how hard you try. No one cares about losses because EVERYONE loses. What people care about is what players can make it to the TOP of the mountain (finals MVP). MJ did it 6 times, Lebron did it 4 times, everyone else is behind.

[3ba11]

I literally debunked everything you said multiple times in this thread. Even in this post, you are literally agreeing with me that only Jordan is a better winner than Lebron in the 3 point era .

And wow, you even melted down and made another thread because you couldn't handle the fact that I am right.

You can't "debunk" 4 finals MVPs no matter how hard you try.

Curry, Duncan or MJ had stretches where they mostly won with a given team - they win 3 chips in 5 years like Duncan, or 3 in 4 like Curry, or 6 in 7 like MJ.... Otoh, Lebron isn't capable of mostly winning with any cast and mostly lost with every cast..

History shows that Lebron mostly lost with every cast and also has the lowest team ceilings/Finals records, and also has more bad losses than any top 10 candidate (sweep losses, record losses, upset losses, losses with 2 all-stars, locked up in a loss)..

These things make him the biggest loser of all-time.

[StrongLurk]

When Curry, Duncan or MJ gets a team of guys in their prime, they mostly win - they win 3 chips in 5 years like Duncan, or 3 in 4 like Curry, or 6 in 7 like MJ.... Otoh, Lebron isn't capable of mostly winning with any cast and mostly lost with every cast..

History shows that Lebron mostly lost with every cast and also has the lowest team ceilings/Finals records, and also has more bad losses than any top 10 candidate (sweep losses, record losses, upset losses, losses with 2 all-stars, locked up in a loss)..

These things make him the biggest loser of all-time.

Lebron won 3 chips in 5 years just like Duncan. Curry was the second option to Durant, so no one cares about Curry those years.

But yes, MJ is ahead of Lebron. Again we agree on that, but you are just too dumb. Lebron can't be the biggest loser in nba history because he literally has 4 FMVPs. You are just saying nonsense. Lebron is the clear 2nd place guy, quit crying about it .

[3ba11]

Lebron won 3 chips in 5 years

Not with the same cast - he never mostly won with any cast, and mostly lost with every cast.

Lebron gets to refresh his cast with the best young studs every 4 years, so he doesn't have to deal with young or aging teammates Curry or MJ did - it's the weakest shit ever.

For a GM, the worst part about Lebron is that he's good for 1 chip before opponents figure him out and then your franchise is completely destroyed - he isn't worth it at all.. And he lacks the chemistry to deal with aging talent, so he must team-hop.. again, it's the weakest shit ever.. he's the biggest fraud in sports history... the most selfish, narcissistic, self-centered, praise-seeking and teammate-blaming player in the history of the NBA... He doesn't know what chemistry is - "more help" is the only thing he knows (talent-based winning).

[StrongLurk]

Not with the same cast - he never mostly won with any cast, and mostly lost with every cast.

Lebron gets to refresh his cast with the best young studs every 4 years, so he doesn't have to deal with young or aging teammates Curry or MJ did - it's the weakest shit ever.

For a GM, the worst part about Lebron is that he's good for 1 chip before opponents figure him out and then your franchise is completely destroyed - he isn't worth it at all.. And he lacks the chemistry to deal with aging talent, so he must team-hop.. again, it's the weakest shit ever.. he's the biggest fraud in sports history... the most selfish, narcissistic, self-centered, praise-seeking and teammate-blaming player in the history of the NBA.

Duncan's teams had TONS of player turnover across his career. You are being idiotic. Duncan's case for GOAT standard did nothing with his 4th and 5th rings. Also the fact that Lebron WON with so many different players is a positive, not a negative.

The GOAT standard relies on FMVPs. That's ultimately what matters. Lebron and MJ had a ton of series where they were the best players, but still lost.

The GOAT standard in basketball requires winning, and the FMVP is the highest standard of winning. It is what it is.

Lebron is 2nd behind MJ with 4.

[3ba11]

Duncan's teams had TONS of player turnover across his career. You are being idiotic. Duncan's case for GOAT standard did nothing with his 4th and 5th rings. Also the fact that Lebron WON with so many different players is a positive, not a negative.

The GOAT standard relies on FMVPs. That's ultimately what matters. Lebron and MJ had a ton of series where they were the best players, but still lost.

The GOAT standard in basketball requires winning, and the FMVP is the highest standard of winning. It is what it is.

Lebron is 2nd behind MJ with 4.

Nope - if Lebron can't mostly win with ANY cast, then he's nowhere near guys that can mostly win with a cast.

I'll take guys that can produce dominant dynasties over the guy that mostly loses and needs more help regardless of cast.

it's simple and intuitive... Lebron's "down-hill" skillset isn't 5-man basketball, so it can't produce the great chemistry that yields a great-performing cast, aka great team.. it's sad that someone like this has convinced so many poor fans that he's on a goat level, when he's really the biggest loser in NBA history.

[StrongLurk]

Nope - if Lebron can't mostly win with ANY cast, then he's nowhere near guys that can mostly win with a cast.

I'll take guys that can produce dominant dynasties over the guy that mostly loses and needs more help regardless of cast.

it's simple and intuitive... Lebron's "down-hill" skillset isn't 5-man basketball, so it can't produce the great chemistry that yields a great-performing cast, aka great team.. it's sad that someone like this has convinced so many poor fans that he's on a goat level, when he's really the biggest loser in NBA history.

What does "biggest loser in NBA history" even mean? Go ahead and actually define it. As of now, it's a meaningless, hyperbolic statement that you love to spam out of your ass. I might as well just say Jordan is the biggest loser in NBA history in response. Just pointless drivel coming from your very limited NBA knowledge.

Clearly you are very pressed with my OP and you've been reduced to spamming my thread with your unstable insecurities. You can't debunk 4 finals MVPs because it's the second best winning accomplishment in the modern era.

[StrongLurk]

This year will bring in a brand new FMVP. Will be interesting to see who can start their path to chasing Bron's 4 FMVPs.

[StrongLurk]

Quick bump and reminder for the inbreds posting here.

No one has higher regular season achievements (4 MVPS) and Finals Achievements (4 FMVPs) than Lebron in his era, which is the modern era.

Lebron is the clear cut GOAT of the modern era.

[3ba11]

.
The following was required in 1992 to sweep a 1st Round opponent and show no weakness as defending champs:

The proper perspective that young fans should have about MJ is to look at the 1998 Finals, which is a good example because many young fans have some knowledge and/or remember this series.

the point is that EVERY series was like the 98' Finals, as far as the goat stats, 2nd half and 4th quarter domination, heroics and statistical gap between MJ and his cast.

This includes the sweeps (shown above or here for example), let alone the 6 or 7-game series, which show similar heroics and massive gaps in stats between MJ and his cast.. Only the GOAT carried this load on offense, so MJ's goat defense further separates him (1st team defense every year including a runner-up DPOY, DPOY, and no worse than 7th from 88' to 98' plus scoring champ, aka goat peak and goat longevity of peak).

[dankok8]

Russell would definitely have more than 4 FMVP's had they been given in that era but OP's point stands.

[SouBeachTalents]

.
The following was required in 1992 to sweep a 1st Round opponent and show no weakness as defending champs:

The proper perspective that young fans should have about MJ is to look at the 1998 Finals, which is a good example because many young fans have some knowledge and/or remember this series.

the point is that EVERY series was like the 98' Finals, as far as the goat stats, 2nd half and 4th quarter domination, heroics and statistical gap between MJ and his cast.

This includes the sweeps (shown above or here for example), let alone the 6 or 7-game series, which show similar heroics and massive gaps in stats between MJ and his cast.. Only the GOAT carried this load on offense, so MJ's goat defense further separates him (1st team defense every year including a runner-up DPOY, DPOY, and no worse than 7th from 88' to 98' plus scoring champ, aka goat peak and goat longevity of peak).

Jordan's team won 55 games without him.

[sdot_thadon]

Russell would definitely have more than 4 FMVP's had they been given in that era but OP's point stands.

He'd also have more than 6.....

[RRR3]

He'd also have more than 6.....

He might have 11 lol