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11-19-2024, 04:26 PM
#286
NBA Superstar
Re: Put DeMar DeRozan with the 1993-94 Chicago Bulls?
 Originally Posted by 3ba11
The Bulls swept every series and were up 3-0 on the Sonics, so Rodman didn't save anything - the Bulls would've won with half the league in Rodman's spot, especially since Jordan won titles with role players like Kukoc and Horace starting at PF.
What the Bulls did before the Finals has nothing to do with what im talking. Im talking about what Rodman did IN THE FINALS!!!. Stop deflecting.
Furthermore, Rodman averaged 3/8 for the entire 97' Playoffs and wasn't even the starter in the 98' Playoffs, so the Bulls won IN SPITE of his anemic play.
On multiple occasions, I've sent you actual video of Rodman shutting down Malone in 98. You want to stay ignorant.
And the Bulls won the 96' ring despite going 4 on 5 with Rodman, while Jordan's commanding of double-teams took Rodman's man away and gave Rodman the offensive rebound - Jeff Van Gundy explains how teams cannot get defensive rebounds while their bigs are double-teaming Jordan (video here)...
Rodman set the record for most offensive rebounds in a Finals game TWICE. Lol. Offensive rebounding is a part of offense.
Again, it could've been any decent role player in Rodman's spot, like Horace or Kukoc - all these guys are role players, while Bosh, Love and AD are franchise players.. Even Jamison was a 2x all-star and MVP candidate.
But yet for all the times you talk about how often Jordan is double and triple teamed, nobody was able to do what Rodman did. Rodman being the rebounding leader for multiple straight years. A 2 time DPOY winner, and 5 Championships, and multiple All Defense selections. He's much more decorated than Jamison and Love.
1993 ECF
Jordan....... 32.2... 6.2... 7.0... 2.3 tov.. 24.4 gmsc
Pippen....... 22.5... 6.7... 4.0... 4.0 tov.. 15.7 gmsc
^^^ Pippen was carried in the 93' ECF just like every series.
And Game 3 was a blowout where Pippen did nothing when the game was contested in the 1st quarter - that's when Jordan took over and put the game away (8 points and 6 assists compared to 6 and 0 for Pippen), and then Pippen produced in garbage time for the 2nd through 4th quarters - it was a laugher - this is the historical record... Jordan saved the day as always when the game was being contested.
If Pippen was carried, it sure wasn't by Jordan. Lol. The fact that you only bring up game 3 of a 6 games series tells me all I need to know.
^^^ you just said it yourself - they were ROLE PLAYERS, so any role player will do - every team has role players
they were replaceable low producers, which required goat stats and carry-jobs from Jordan win titles
I put it in quotes. You called them role players.
Pippen and Grant were low-producing bumsand no one else could've won with them as 2nd and 3rd option because they were 3rd through 7th option on other teams, as the historical record shows.
So you're just punishing MJ for WHOEVER he won with - WHOEVER he won with was going to be inflated by you guys, even low-producing bums like Pippen and Grant... You're punishing MJ for winning with the first all-star he got and never needing another one like everyone else needed...
According to you, it would be better if MJ only won once with Pippen and otherwise lost every other year, and then win once with Kemp, and then win once with Hakeem - but producing perennial losers the entire time!!!!... And never producing a great team!!!... According to you, this is better than MJ being unbeatable with the first modicum of help that he received.
The bold is why MJ gets hit with the 1-9 argument. If Pippen and Grant were bums. Then Jordan should faired better than he did before they arrived. Or is it that he was beating overrated or at best mediocre teams (something i disagree with), which means that his legacy has to be tarnished. Make up your mind.
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11-19-2024, 04:35 PM
#287
NBA Superstar
Re: Put DeMar DeRozan with the 1993-94 Chicago Bulls?
Game 1 1998 NBA Finals Rodman vs Malone
https://youtu.be/eC0B-9Ma-8M?si=Aw49y0ErRQO7Wpwi
Game 2
https://youtu.be/xc17rxedajY?si=iDdOTX16g9Fa5tKa
Game 3
https://youtu.be/LksCGBWXWds?si=78GycwGfWrMtkZRE
Game 4
https://youtu.be/EglLZwE_frI?si=SyndpZSIr8qNKp0u
This is what Rodman did to Malone in 4 of the 6 games. Basketball is more than just scoring and stats. I shutter to think what Malone would've did to another player. Hell he was killing Longley who wasn't a bad defender.
3ball wants to stay ignorant.
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11-19-2024, 10:39 PM
#288
Re: Put DeMar DeRozan with the 1993-94 Chicago Bulls?
 Originally Posted by 97 bulls
Kukoc was the starter in the 98' Playoffs and Rodman came off the bench because Rodman was horrific in the previous playoffs in 97' (3/8).
So Jordan won with 3 different role players at PF, while Lebron needed franchise guys like Bosh, Love, or AD, and stars like Jamison.
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11-19-2024, 10:50 PM
#289
NBA Superstar
Re: Put DeMar DeRozan with the 1993-94 Chicago Bulls?
 Originally Posted by 3ba11
Kukoc was the starter in the 98' Playoffs and Rodman came off the bench because Rodman was horrific in the previous playoffs in 97' (3/8).
So Jordan won with 3 different role players at PF, while Lebron needed franchise guys like Bosh, Love, or AD, and stars like Jamison.
You stated this already. My rebuttal was actual video showing the job Rodman did on the MVP and Runner-up up MVP in Karl Malone. You continue to say the same stuff only confirms how weak your argument is.
Not to mention that both of those "role players" (what you called them, not me) are in the Hall of Fame.
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11-19-2024, 11:05 PM
#290
Re: Put DeMar DeRozan with the 1993-94 Chicago Bulls?
 Originally Posted by 97 bulls
If Pippen and Grant were bums. Then Jordan should faired better than he did before they arrived.
Jokic, Giannis, Luka, Curry, KD and Lebron were lottery for their first few seasons, so young MJ lost just like all young players lose until they begin to enter their prime.. It's easy to forget that the gifted Woolridge only got one year with rookie Jordan and didn't get a long tenure to develop with prime Jordan like Pippen did..
Jordan was also injured in Year 2, and after management saw how well MJ returned from injury in the 86' Playoffs, they cleaned house heading into the 87' season by getting rid of the 1st and 2nd options (Woolridge and Gervin).... So the 87' cast was the league's worst and worse than the 85' or 86' casts, but 87' Jordan won more games because he was entering his prime.
Pippen is just the low-producing bum that was lucky to land alongside the GOAT entering his prime and MJ would've obviously won much sooner and easier if the Bulls' could've replaced 88-90' Pippen with many different guys... For example, Pippen averaged 12 on 41% against the Pistons from 88-90', yet MJ still nearly won in 89' or 90', so he would've easily won with James Worthy, who dominated the Pistons during that stretch at all-time levels.
Heck, X-Man led the Sonics to the 87' WCF and dominated the Lakers, while the old version of X-Man dominated Pippen in the 92' Playoffs, so X-Man was the kind of 2-way wing that Jordan would've easily won with... Sean Elliot provided phenomenal spacing and clutch assassin that Pippen didn't have..
Tons of guys - Detleft Schrempf was a 6'10" ball-handler and 40% three-point shooter that destroyed Pippen in the 96' Finals - he was much better than Pippen, aka bigger, faster, stronger, and far better shooter... But he didn't get a tenure with prime MJ like Pippen did... Finally, we know that Horry was the 2nd best player on a champion as a 2nd-year player, while also playing better than Pippen ever did in the 95' Finals (3rd season), so he would've helped MJ more than 3rd year Pippen just like X-Man, Worthy and many others... (Pippen is 0/6 in matching Horry's gamescore from the 95' Finals).
.
Last edited by 3ba11; 11-19-2024 at 11:13 PM.
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11-19-2024, 11:10 PM
#291
Re: Put DeMar DeRozan with the 1993-94 Chicago Bulls?
 Originally Posted by 97 bulls
You stated this already. My rebuttal was actual video showing the job Rodman did on the MVP and Runner-up up MVP in Karl Malone.
Rodman got housed by Malone in both Finals, and he was so bad in 97' that he was benched in 98'.. He was reduced to spot-duty on Karl because he was a liability literally all over the court...
And rodman provided zero help to the league MVP in 1995 as they were housed in the playoffs, and no one wanted the pink-haired, wedding-dress-wearing malcontent - only MJ saved him and told the Bulls that he could handle him, and only MJ could win with the pink-haired version and old version of Rodman, who was big trash... But I'll admit, Rodman was so bad that even MJ needed him to come off the bench by 1998.
Last edited by 3ba11; 11-19-2024 at 11:13 PM.
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11-19-2024, 11:16 PM
#292
Re: Put DeMar DeRozan with the 1993-94 Chicago Bulls?
.
97' Bulls defeated on the PF (role player) issue, so Thread Cliffs reiterated:
The 94' Bulls weren't a real 55-win team, so the thread is moot - no one paid much attention in 94' because everyone knew the bubble would burst, and it did.
The "real" Bulls were a 2nd Round loser and borderline .500 in 95', so a .500 team won't even make the conference finals or Finals with Derozan, let alone win a title or 3-peat.
In the 93' Finals, the Bulls and Suns both averaged exactly 106.7 ppg and 113.0 ortg, so every ounce of Jordan's 41 ppg was needed... Pippen shot 0% on threes and 59% from the line, so his true shooting was only 46.9% and couldn't handle additional load.. The 92' chip was also razor-thin and went 7 games vs Knicks where Pippen was destroyed by X-Man.
Last edited by 3ba11; 11-19-2024 at 11:19 PM.
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11-19-2024, 11:19 PM
#293
Embiid > Jokic
Re: Put DeMar DeRozan with the 1993-94 Chicago Bulls?
First of all, it's hosed by, not housed by He didn't build Malone a shelter like you did for LeBron in your head. And in that series you reference Malone put up a whopping 23.8 ppg on 45%TS. In contrast, Pippen averaged 20 ppg on 54%TS. So not only did Malone shoot abysmally in that series you pretend he went off in, it's another example of Pippen almost outproducing the other teams best player.
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11-19-2024, 11:46 PM
#294
Re: Put DeMar DeRozan with the 1993-94 Chicago Bulls?
^^^ Jordan won 2 titles with the most bricklaying and least spacing help ever from a sidekick, while Lebron needs goat-spacing help for his simpleton stiff-arm skillset... :
 Originally Posted by SouBeachTalents
And in that series you reference Malone put up a whopping 23.8 ppg on 45%TS. In contrast, Pippen averaged 20 ppg on 54%TS. So not only did Malone shoot abysmally in that series you pretend he went off, it's another example of Pippen almost outproducing the other teams best player.
In the 97' Finals, Pippen had 4 points in 20 minutes of clutch-time, compared to 11 for Malone, 13 for Stockton, 5 for Byron Russell, and 23 for Jordan.. Even Ostertag averaged more ppg in clutch-time.
20 points from Pippen was mostly transition and then worst-ever efficiency in the halfcourt - literally - Pippen had the worst shooting splits that anyone ever had on a playoff run during the 96' and 98' Playoffs - so he was worst-ever TWICE and they were TITLE runs.
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11-19-2024, 11:47 PM
#295
NBA Superstar
Re: Put DeMar DeRozan with the 1993-94 Chicago Bulls?
 Originally Posted by soubeachtalents
first of all, it's hosed by, not housed by  he didn't build malone a shelter like you did for lebron in your head. And in that series you reference malone put up a whopping 23.8 ppg on 45%ts. In contrast, pippen averaged 20 ppg on 54%ts. So not only did malone shoot abysmally in that series you pretend he went off in, it's another example of pippen almost outproducing the other teams best player.
facts!!!!
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11-19-2024, 11:49 PM
#296
Re: Put DeMar DeRozan with the 1993-94 Chicago Bulls?
 Originally Posted by 97 bulls
facts!!!!
Malone was a team-carrier that attracted all the defensive attention to make the offense and team work, so he isn't comparable to secondary players like Horry or Pippen - Pippen was just a dunker, tertiary producer and system player
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11-19-2024, 11:49 PM
#297
Full Court sucks dick
Re: Put DeMar DeRozan with the 1993-94 Chicago Bulls?
Most of 3ball's idiotic replies for today were edited. 
Such a lousy ass buffoon lol.
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11-19-2024, 11:52 PM
#298
Re: Put DeMar DeRozan with the 1993-94 Chicago Bulls?
 Originally Posted by Axe
Most of 3ball's idiotic replies for today were edited.
Such a lousy ass buffoon lol.
Have you ever tried to teach a kid a subject that they know nothing about OVER THE INTERNET???
it takes a lot of edits to correct stupidity and sheer dumbness about a subject.. it really does..
i feel like if it isn't said just perfectly, you dumbasses won't understand the point being made and you won't learn
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11-19-2024, 11:54 PM
#299
NBA Superstar
Re: Put DeMar DeRozan with the 1993-94 Chicago Bulls?
 Originally Posted by 3ba11
^^^ Jordan won 2 titles with the most bricklaying and least spacing help ever from a sidekick, while Lebron needs goat-spacing help for his simpleton stiff-arm skillset... :
In the 97' Finals, Pippen had 4 points in 20 minutes of clutch-time, compared to 11 for Malone, 13 for Stockton, 5 for Byron Russell, and 23 for Jordan.. Even Ostertag averaged more ppg in clutch-time.
20 points from Pippen was mostly transition and then worst-ever efficiency in the halfcourt - literally - Pippen had the worst shooting splits that anyone ever had on a playoff run during the 96' and 98' Playoffs - so he was worst-ever TWICE and they were TITLE runs.
In that very same sentence, Shaq also called Pippen a great player.
As far as his scouting report, maybe his magic team should've had him in the scouting report. They got swept in 96.
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11-20-2024, 12:08 AM
#300
Re: Put DeMar DeRozan with the 1993-94 Chicago Bulls?
 Originally Posted by 97 bulls
In that very same sentence, Shaq also called Pippen a great player. ��
As far as his scouting report, maybe his magic team should've had him in the scouting report. They got swept in 96.
Maybe you never played, but Pippen wasn't on the scouting report because he wasn't a threat to go off - he has 6 games of 30 points in his playoff career, so teams weren't worried about his 15-20 points on bad efficiency..
More specifically, Pippen didn't require closing out on his jumpshot because it was broke, and he also didn't require double-teams because he was a bad 1-on-1 player... So again, there were concrete reasons why Pippen wasn't on the scouting report, but mainly it was because he was just a dunker with low peak capability, and nothing outside the system.. Literally nothing - worse than Jeff Green outside the system...
Defenders only needed to get back on defense against Pippen to protect against his transition, but "getting back" is something the coach writes on the chalkboard for EVERYONE.
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