How come in the Jordan era they had better TV ratings then now?

[sdot_thadon]

Lebron has a higher Free Throw Rate for his career, and that's with him playing well past his prime years and barely getting to the line now as he doesn't attack the paint nearly as much.

If we just look at their prime years (I'll do age 24-29 seasons for this purpose, from when Jordan hit his peak to his 1st retirement), Lebron had a 44.9% Free Throw Rate vs. Jordan's 36.6%.

Free Throw Rate = Free Throws attempted per FG attempt.

And we can also look at the Personal Fouls number. Jordan averaged 2.6 fouls to Lebron's 1.8 for his career in the RS and 3 fouls to Lebron's 2.3 per game in the Playoffs.

Youre looking at numbers and im speaking from watching the games. Hes never gotten as many calls as hes earned, why do you think he started that terrible flopping shit in the 1st place? Jump shooters were spemding more time on the line than a guy pressuring the paint for entire games. If he was reffed the same as other stars he"d foul out opposing front lines kinda like Shaq did in the 90s- 2000s. No guy starting his offense from the 3 point line has ever put as much pressure on the paint as prime Lebron. The numbers won't ever reflect this idea.

[sdot_thadon]

Yep. Spoken like a true beta.

I said what I said. You couldn't handle the argument so you took a detour to fagville. Its ok buddy hang in there.

[ImKobe]

Youre looking at numbers and im speaking from watching the games. Hes never gotten as many calls as hes earned, why do you think he started that terrible flopping shit in the 1st place? Jump shooters were spemding more time on the line than a guy pressuring the paint for entire games. If he was reffed the same as other stars he"d foul out opposing front lines kinda like Shaq did in the 90s- 2000s. No guy starting his offense from the 3 point line has ever put as much pressure on the paint as prime Lebron. The numbers won't ever reflect this idea.

If Lebron was reffed fairly in his prime he'd foul out of games for stiff-arming the defender that's on his way to the basket. It's why he didn't get as many FTs as you think he might've deserved. Also take into account that defenders would often just not get in Lebron's way because they didn't want to end up on a poster or get called for the foul as it was impossible to contest his layup/dunk attempts or stop him from finishing if he had a step on them.


Lebron is #1 all-time in minutes played and just 132rd all-time in personal fouls. Kareem is #2 in minutes played and #1 in fouls. Imagine that. Jordan is 36th all-time in total minutes with 18000 less minutes than Lebron and still has more fouls committed for his career.

[sdot_thadon]

If Lebron was reffed fairly in his prime he'd foul out of games for stiff-arming the defender that's on his way to the basket. It's why he didn't get as many FTs as you think he might've deserved. Also take into account that defenders would often just not get in Lebron's way because they didn't want to end up on a poster or get called for the foul as it was impossible to contest his layup/dunk attempts or stop him from finishing if he had a step on them.


Lebron is #1 all-time in minutes played and just 132rd all-time in personal fouls. Kareem is #2 in minutes played and #1 in fouls. Imagine that. Jordan is 36th all-time in total minutes with 18000 less minutes than Lebron and still has more fouls committed for his career.

Hard disagree there. He definitely could have more offensive fouls in a similar way Shaq could. But it would still be far and away less than how often he was hit on even made baskets and not get the and 1. I get it, from your perspective Lebron isn't even what he is to more objective observers than me. I dont think you shouldn't get calls just because you're bigger or stronger, or even worse because you still made the bucket. Also gotta take into account hes been playing so long you guys are starting to forget what his prime years even looked like. He got hit alot more before the 3point revolution spread the floor. Half of his career occurred before the shooting started taking over.

[ImKobe]

Hard disagree there. He definitely could have more offensive fouls in a similar way Shaq could. But it would still be far and away less than how often he was hit on even made baskets and not get the and 1. I get it, from your perspective Lebron isn't even what he is to more objective observers than me. I dont think you shouldn't get calls just because you're bigger or stronger, or even worse because you still made the bucket. Also gotta take into account hes been playing so long you guys are starting to forget what his prime years even looked like. He got hit alot more before the 3point revolution spread the floor. Half of his career occurred before the shooting started taking over.

Well there's that as well. They allowed more physical play earlier in his career. It's similar to Shaq where it's not really fair to call the slightest contact on Lebron when he's overpowering his opponents due to his size & athletic advantage. In most situations it's just more fair to not call anything as there's contact on both sides, and usually that benefited him as it did Shaq as defenders bounced off them.

[Hey Yo]

I said what I said. You couldn't handle the argument so you took a detour to fagville. Its ok buddy hang in there.

[sdot_thadon]

Well there's that as well. They allowed more physical play earlier in his career. It's similar to Shaq where it's not really fair to call the slightest contact on Lebron when he's overpowering his opponents due to his size & athletic advantage. In most situations it's just more fair to not call anything as there's contact on both sides, and usually that benefited him as it did Shaq as defenders bounced off them.

But thats the catch 22. Are defenders allowed to use more force and hit these guys harder than other players unchecked? And for the record Shaq still put whole teams in foul trouble despite being reffed differently, Lebron wasn't given the same respect in the paint. Hes getting legit hit on buckets out there and his detractors say hes whining. And you got retards saying he couldn't play in the 90s as physical as his playstyle had been.

[ImKobe]

But thats the catch 22. Are defenders allowed to use more force and hit these guys harder than other players unchecked? And for the record Shaq still put whole teams in foul trouble despite being reffed differently, Lebron wasn't given the same respect in the paint. Hes getting legit hit on buckets out there and his detractors say hes whining. And you got retards saying he couldn't play in the 90s as physical as his playstyle had been.

Well, fouling Chris Paul is different from fouling Lebron. You'd need to exert a bit more force to bother Lebron's shot. Lebron's so big he initiates contact and while sometimes it did go uncalled he also got a bunch of and-1s where he just ran over his opponent. It's a tough one to call from the refs' perspective as you can't just review every play, impossible to make the right call a 100% of the time.

[sdot_thadon]

Well, fouling Chris Paul is different from fouling Lebron. You'd need to exert a bit more force to bother Lebron's shot. Lebron's so big he initiates contact and while sometimes it did go uncalled he also got a bunch of and-1s where he just ran over his opponent. It's a tough one to call from the refs' perspective as you can't just review every play, impossible to make the right call a 100% of the time.

Right, and thats my point hes been hit harder than a Chris Paul or a KD and not get to the line as much as they did proportionately. Fta make big scoring games easier to achieve. Putting teams in the penalty have huge implications down the stretch of games. These things matter more than I think people want to say.

[Full Court]

I said what I said. You couldn't handle the argument so you took a detour to fagville. Its ok buddy hang in there.

Somebody got REALLY sensitive about the whole beta thing, which wasn't even originally directed toward him.

Definitely hit a sore spot.

[sdot_thadon]

Somebody got REALLY sensitive about the whole beta thing, which wasn't even originally directed toward him.

Definitely hit a sore spot.

Actually you quoted me and directed it at me and got what you got as a result. See you next thread dumb****.

[Full Court]

Actually you quoted me and directed it at me and got what you got as a result. See you next thread dumb****.

The beta thing clearly touched a nerve.

I'm guessing you're a big Lebron fan? Tell me if I'm right, and I'll tell you how I figured it out.

[ImKobe]

Right, and thats my point hes been hit harder than a Chris Paul or a KD and not get to the line as much as they did proportionately. Fta make big scoring games easier to achieve. Putting teams in the penalty have huge implications down the stretch of games. These things matter more than I think people want to say.

Yes, and he had a significantly higher FT rate than Jordan in his prime in comparison. Don't act like he didn't get the whistle. His prime athletic years he averaged 13 and 14 FTA in the Playoffs in '08 '09.. Almost as many FTA as the attempts he had inside the arc.

Like I said, you can't review every play. When he's going downhill and initiates the contact it can be hard to fell if he got hit on the arm or on the side of his face with the speed the play happens. Can't catch it every time. OTOH he got away with plenty of offensive fouls and traveling so that evens out.

[Axe]

Yes, and he had a significantly higher FT rate than Jordan in his prime in comparison. Don't act like he didn't get the whistle. His prime athletic years he averaged 13 and 14 FTA in the Playoffs in '08 '09.. Almost as many FTA as the attempts he had inside the arc.

Like I said, you can't review every play. When he's going downhill and initiates the contact it can be hard to fell if he got hit on the arm or on the side of his face with the speed the play happens. Can't catch it every time. OTOH he got away with plenty of offensive fouls and traveling so that evens out.

But if jordan got more of those numbers instead, you wouldn't point them out at all?

I said what I said. You couldn't handle the argument so you took a detour to fagville. Its ok buddy hang in there.

[Full Court]

But if jordan got more of those numbers instead, you wouldn't point them out at all?

Did you know that Lebron has BY FAR the most choke jobs of all time? In fact, Full Court has even documented no less than 45 of them just in the post season.


Stinky idiot.