Lebron James - 4 FMVPs - 2nd best Winner of all time

[StrongLurk]

There's zero arguments whatsoever that Lebron is a bigger winner than Bill, the goat, or Kareem. Hell, he doesn't have much of a conversation being above Magic in that regard.

Well for one, I already said MJ is a greater winner than Lebron. I also gave Bill Russell credit too, but my thread is really for the eras with FMVP (that came at the end of Russell's career).

So half your post is already addressed. And then you try to claim that Lebron has ZERO argument over Kareem/Magic...you know...two guys who literally played for a decade together on the same team

Your whole post is trash

[StrongLurk]

Who is the next person to get to 4 FMVPs?

Right now it's MJ 1, Lebron 2 in the 3-point era.

[SouBeachTalents]

Who is the next person to get to 4 FMVPs?

Right now it's MJ 1, Lebron 2 in the 3-point era.

Let's see someone get to 3 first. Over the last 15 years only 2 other guys won more than 1, KD had to piggyback onto a 73 win team for his and Kawhi was a role player for one of his.

[StrongLurk]

Let's see someone get to 3 first. Over the last 15 years only 2 other guys won more than 1, KD had to piggyback onto a 73 win team for his and Kawhi was a role player for one of his.

Well the modern era, aka toughest era, started in 2003 (finally using instant replay, first round series went to best of 7, free agency/contract rules changes, and a litany of other things in 2003) and is still going, although we are on the edge of a brand new era, probably by 2028.

It's not surprising only Lebron managed to snag 4 FMVPs and 4 MVPs during the hardest era so far.

[sdot_thadon]

Well the modern era, aka toughest era, started in 2003 (finally using instant replay, first round series went to best of 7, free agency/contract rules changes, and a litany of other things in 2003) and is still going, although we are on the edge of a brand new era, probably by 2028.

It's not surprising only Lebron managed to snag 4 FMVPs and 4 MVPs during the hardest era so far.

The new cap rules make it seem less and less likely going forward, because these guys arent going to be able to keep contenders together too many years before retooling.

[StrongLurk]

The new cap rules make it seem less and less likely going forward, because these guys arent going to be able to keep contenders together too many years before retooling.

True, now that I think about it, the NBA probably FULLY started a new era in 2023. We'll have to see if this new era is "harder", it should be but it's not 100% guarantee.

So yeah, either way, Lebron was the GOAT in the hardest KNOWN NBA era (2003-2022).

[3ba11]

Lebron got extra Finals chances that he never earned by putting the top 3 players in the East on 1 team and forming big 3's, so this cheating negates the value of his 4 FMVP, since he wasn't really good enough to make all those Finals.

But carry on supporting a proven loser and fraud, while intelligent people patiently wait for this massive negative to give up and retire - it's too late - he lost.. He never caught the ghost and the ghost is long gone.. Now he's an old desperate bum looking for anyone that can carry him to a title, just so he can catch Kobe, let alone Mike.. It's another sad case of an all-timer hanging on too long.. This one will be the most excruciating one ever.

[StrongLurk]

Lebron got extra Finals chances that he never earned by putting the top 3 players in the East on 1 team and forming big 3's, so this cheating negates the value of his 4 FMVP, since he wasn't really good enough to make all those Finals.

But carry on supporting a proven loser and fraud, while intelligent people patiently wait for this massive negative to give up and retire - it's too late - he lost.. He never caught the ghost and the ghost is long gone.. Now he's an old desperate bum looking for anyone that can carry him to a title, just so he can catch Kobe, let alone Mike.. It's another sad case of an all-timer hanging on too long.. This one will be the most excruciating one ever.

All the best players in Lebron's era also played with the best talent, so your whole point is moot. No one matched Lebron in FMVPs or MVPs. Only Jordan is ahead in 3-pointer era. No one else before or after Lebron has been better than Lebron.

[Full Court]

Russell, Havlicek, Kareem, MJ, Mikan, Magic, Kobe, Duncan.

LeBron is second best after all of them, tied with Shaq, and Steph. That is taking into account number of championships with being the best on team at least once.

Apparently, you define the best “winner” as involving something other than winning. Please stop.

And that, my friends, is the problem with Bronie fluffers.

[Walk on Water]

All the best players in Lebron's era also played with the best talent, so your whole point is moot. No one matched Lebron in FMVPs or MVPs. Only Jordan is ahead in 3-pointer era. No one else before or after Lebron has been better than Lebron.

So how is Lebron better than Jordan if Jordan won more MVPS and FMVPS and more chips I may add? This is the problem. You claim that Lebron is better than everyone because he has more MVPS and FMVPS but than when Jordan is ahead of him in that department, now you're gonna come up with some excuse on why that doesn't count.

[Walk on Water]

Let me clarify that Bill Russell is basically included in this as well since we know he would've had a lot of FMVPs if the award existed.

So I am happy to rephrase the OP to only factor in the NBA post-1980 (3-point line).

When it comes to GOAT discussions, the players NEED the FMVP with the Ring. It's a requirement.

You also failed to mention that in the bubble year, Anthony Davis lead Lebron in every single statistic that season. Lebron may have stat padded in the Finals, but if you look at the bigger picture Davis was the better scorer and rebounder. And defender.

Kinda like how Doncic leads Leborn in every imaginable stat now.

[Full Court]

You also failed to mention that in the bubble year, Anthony Davis lead Lebron in every single statistic that season. Lebron may have stat padded in the Finals, but if you look at the bigger picture Davis was the better scorer and rebounder. And defender.

Kinda like how Doncic leads Leborn in every imaginable stat now.

Not true. Lebron leads in turnovers.

[1987_Lakers]

There's zero arguments whatsoever that Lebron is a bigger winner than Bill, the goat, or Kareem. Hell, he doesn't have much of a conversation being above Magic in that regard.

A prime Kareem didn't elevate teams like prime LeBron did. Lakers were a joke before Magic got there. Kareem wasn't even the 3rd best player on his team for his last two titles.

Magic had a shit ton of HOF players around him his entire career. Imagine if LeBron had the 2012 & 2013 Miami cast for 10+ years, that was Magic's career.

Hard to use Magic/Kareem because they both had each other along with other players like Worthy, Cooper, Wilkes, Nixon, Scott, McAdoo etc

[sdot_thadon]

So how is Lebron better than Jordan if Jordan won more MVPS and FMVPS and more chips I may add? count.

The same way you assume Jordan is better than Russell under pretty similar circumstances.

[3ba11]

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Thread Cliffs

Lebron's FMVP frequency is among the worst ever (4 for 10), and therefore the 4 FMVP's is a product of simply getting extra chances by being gifted his Finals appearances (via "decisions" and collusions).