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Old 01-12-2007, 06:41 AM   #16
JtotheIzzo
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EPMD
ATCQ
BDK
Gangstarr
BDP
Main Source
DeLa

the above groups are from the golden era (late eighties early nineties). The production value was good enough to seperate itfrom Old School and give it a little more quality, and it was still underground enough to be out of the top forty for the most part and out of the glare of the mainstream media. The best era for hip hop, can never go back unfortunately, the game has changed too much.

I loved my Snoop and Dre and Biggie back when they came out after and blew up like mad (whatever happen to Craig Mack by the way? That song 'Flava in your Ear' (killer beat) was hot as fire when it dropped, but he never surfaced again), and I have respect for all the big names since, a lot of dope shiiit and great MCs for sure (too many to name).

Hip Hop is still great but now that it is the preminent music form in the collective consciousness it just doesn't have the same glow. Does anyone else feel this way or am I just one of those guys that likes things less when they become popular to a larger majority.
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Old 01-12-2007, 11:28 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JtotheIzzo

Hip Hop is still great but now that it is the preminent music form in the collective consciousness it just doesn't have the same glow. Does anyone else feel this way or am I just one of those guys that likes things less when they become popular to a larger majority.


I agree... the problem is that there is no balance in hip hop anymore...almost every body is aiming to pimp hoes and buss off they guns, which is OK when there is something else to balance the drama..

Hip hop music used to be about a rapper's flow combined with the Dj's production... When a rapper's top goal was to have the best flow/best production, that was when it was in its heyday...

Now Rapper's cling to this formula to make hit records more than the pride of their craft (which is to have the tightest flow and the best production)

the more I think about it, I realize that the best rappers are the ones who ultimately led the rest to ruin the game.....

If you think of rappers like Biggie, and Jay-Z, tupac, producers like Puffy and Dre......

these guys were the first ones to develop the "formula" that these unimaginative rappers use over and over these days...

Biggie & Jay talked about guns & b*tches and coupled it with Krystal and expensive clothes, hot cars and the life of a baller

Tupac made 'Thug-life' a popular term (and a popular problem with all the wannabe thugs who dont know sh*t about real thug-life)

Dre & Puffy were the premeir producers dring this period....

I think when we had Tribe Called Quest/Native tongues and Brand Nubian, Public Enemy, Boogie Down Productions and others, we had a balance that covered most all aspects of the real hip hop experience... the art of making good music was the goal, not selling the most units......

Now rappers are believing their own tales and becoming too arrogant and self absorbed to consider the reality of where they fit into the world..they are mostly too busy bragging and pretending the world revolves around them instead of the other way around...

I really liked what Jay-Z tried to do with his latest album because I recognize it as the proper next step in a rapper's career... Even thouh his album didnt do as well as some of his others, Jay understands that he cant rap like he still lives in marcy projects anymore... that aint real.. he has to project his new experience which is different than what it was, but still real...

Rappers need to expand and begin to talk about something besides bagging hoes and living a wreckless life

the world is in serious turmoil right now and there are plenty of things to talk about.... Black folks have a million issues and rappers could be addressing those if they would stop talking about themselves and their fantasy world for a minute
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Old 01-12-2007, 12:01 PM   #18
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I second that Rasheed. I listen to just Christian Rap now since '96, but I grew up on Old School - 90's Hip Hop. Speaking of which, I can't believe we're discussing Old School and no one's mentioned Sugar Hill Gang, Get Fresh Crew, Salt 'N' Pepa, MC Shan, MC Lyte?!? But I digress...

Even though I stopped listening to what's on the radio eleven years ago(for the most part) and I'm Christian, even as a general hip-hop fan it saddens me that the creativity and versatility is...well, not dead, but it's in ICU. Everybody talks about the same exact thing - money, drugs, sex, guns, or how they're the best pimp/rapper/hustler (these days, hard to tell the difference, so many cats finance their albums off drug money) out there. In the 90's, you could have 100 rappers talking about 200 different things.

Musical production has improved since then, but it's wasted on less than innovative lyrical content. There's really a handful of cats that actually talk about something, like Mos Def, Talib, Common to name a few. There's others that have the potential but forsake it for record sales. Jay-Z could easy be spittin conscious complex lyrics, but he numbs his stuff down because it won't sell as much. Kanye does it on occasion, but not enough.

I'm not saying rappers should all be like Public Enemy and X Clan, but they owe it to themselves and their fans to challenge themselves and not settle for cookie cutter subject matters.
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Old 01-12-2007, 01:26 PM   #19
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Rasheed - since you're a local Philly cat, what do you think of Jedi Mind Tricks? I'm sure you support your Illadelph boys (Roots), but any other groups out of Philly you strongly support?
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Old 01-13-2007, 02:11 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasheed1
I agree... the problem is that there is no balance in hip hop anymore...almost every body is aiming to pimp hoes and buss off they guns, which is OK when there is something else to balance the drama..

Hip hop music used to be about a rapper's flow combined with the Dj's production... When a rapper's top goal was to have the best flow/best production, that was when it was in its heyday...

Now Rapper's cling to this formula to make hit records more than the pride of their craft (which is to have the tightest flow and the best production)

the more I think about it, I realize that the best rappers are the ones who ultimately led the rest to ruin the game.....

If you think of rappers like Biggie, and Jay-Z, tupac, producers like Puffy and Dre......

these guys were the first ones to develop the "formula" that these unimaginative rappers use over and over these days...

Biggie & Jay talked about guns & b*tches and coupled it with Krystal and expensive clothes, hot cars and the life of a baller

Tupac made 'Thug-life' a popular term (and a popular problem with all the wannabe thugs who dont know sh*t about real thug-life)

Dre & Puffy were the premeir producers dring this period....

I think when we had Tribe Called Quest/Native tongues and Brand Nubian, Public Enemy, Boogie Down Productions and others, we had a balance that covered most all aspects of the real hip hop experience... the art of making good music was the goal, not selling the most units......

Now rappers are believing their own tales and becoming too arrogant and self absorbed to consider the reality of where they fit into the world..they are mostly too busy bragging and pretending the world revolves around them instead of the other way around...

I really liked what Jay-Z tried to do with his latest album because I recognize it as the proper next step in a rapper's career... Even thouh his album didnt do as well as some of his others, Jay understands that he cant rap like he still lives in marcy projects anymore... that aint real.. he has to project his new experience which is different than what it was, but still real...

Rappers need to expand and begin to talk about something besides bagging hoes and living a wreckless life

the world is in serious turmoil right now and there are plenty of things to talk about.... Black folks have a million issues and rappers could be addressing those if they would stop talking about themselves and their fantasy world for a minute

The formulaic hip hop you talk about in a twisted kind of way is a perverted form of machismo aimed at suburb kids, selling them a fantasy world of guns, violence, toughness, luxury goods, and sex. All things unattainable when you are a high school student living in your parents house somewhere in Suburbia where nothing ever happens. Fans of hip hop will always love it, but you can sell a lot more records if you talk about being hard, getting pussssssy, owning nice rides and booze and drugs to the people who spend their days trying to score those items.
It's a proven money making formula but the dangerous thing is that the caretakers of the art form (those in the limelight today) are actually pimping out their art and turning over the music like they are turning out hoes. They may drive it into the ground. Hip hop will never die, but it could go into serious remission.
Record company execs are suits nowadays too, not like back in the day when people were in it cuz they loved the music. That means they'll care less about skills and more about the bottom line and that formula unfortunately works out better based on how many times you can talk about the 24 inch chain you just copped from Jacob's.

Last edited by JtotheIzzo : 01-13-2007 at 02:14 PM.
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Old 01-14-2007, 02:17 AM   #21
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Hip hop is whatever you want it to be I think. If you want club beats and gangsta rhymes, then listen to Chingy or 50 Cent. If you like old school, listen to KRS-One, Big Daddy Kane, and Busy Bee. It doesn't matter if you like southern hip hop, west coast, east coast, midwest, street, underground, instrumentals, or whatever else. The thing that kind of bothers me is when people think one is better than another or one is not real hip hop.

Hip hop is so much bigger, obviously, than in 1990. Blame Will Smith for making it so mainstream, Rakim for updating it, 2Pac and Biggie for making beefs popular, or MC Hammer for making dance hip hop for your dislike of current hip hop. But you can't attack the kids in the suburbs that like Jeezy.

As for who defines hip hop for me:
Nas
Common
2Pac
Aceyalone/Murs/Xzibit/DJ Quik
DJ Jazzy Jeff
The Roots
Cam'ron
Fugees
Little Brother/Justus League
OutKast
Mos Def/Talib Kweli/Jean Grae
Rhymesayers/Def Jux/Stones Throw
HipHopSite.com
Masta Ace's, "A Long Hot Summer"
Everyone that has had a long career of ups and downs in the spotlight (Snoop, Dre, LL Cool J, Will Smith, Naughty By Nature, Wu-Tang Clan, Jay-Z, Jurmaine Dupri, Bone Thugs, DMX, Busta)
Those that took hip hop to the next level whether it be good or bad and almost have defined eras
(Sugarhill Gang for early hip hop, Rakim took hip hop to a new level and updated things, Biggie created that "formula" that has dominated since him, Eminem/50 Cent have taken that formula and updated it, and some would say ruined hip hop)

So in the end, I think 50 Cent will end up representing these past couple years, and the next couple years. The thing that I am interested to see is who in a few years will take hip hop in a different direction and which direction will that be. Will it be another hit maker, perhaps a Lil' Wayne, Bow Wow, Papoose, or someone that has yet to come out, or a more traditional hip hop guy, which seem to be few and far between with young rappers. My guess is that after these 50 Cent followers run out of steam in a few years, you will see hip hop stay gangsta, but rely less of flow, and more on lyrics. I think you will see a return to the old school mentality, but with modern topics/beats. I think Hip Hop Is Dead is actually going to kind of be that Straight Out of Compton that led to Biggie a few years down the road. I just wish it would be like a Slim Shady LP that just takes hip hop in that new direction without any warning real precursor. The problem is that you have too many "strong" albums that still represent what hip hop is today. I think the thing that allowed Eminem to just take over like that was that you kind of had a dropoff after Biggie, Pac, and Big L died. Jay-Z was kind of in transition and Nas had kind of fallen off the map. Wu-Tang and Death Row weren't having amazing success. Public Enemy, KRS-One, Rakim, ATCQ, Fugees, Queen Latifah, and that West Coast g-funk had all disappeared. Hip hop was kind of like the NBA, with only people like Missy and Lauryn Hill kind of being what was fresh. The only problem with a change in hip hop now is the you still have strong support for people like Jeezy, Lil' Wayne, Dipset, and like a million more.
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Old 01-16-2007, 12:37 PM   #22
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Quote:
The formulaic hip hop you talk about in a twisted kind of way is a perverted form of machismo aimed at suburb kids, selling them a fantasy world of guns, violence, toughness, luxury goods, and sex. All things unattainable when you are a high school student living in your parents house somewhere in Suburbia where nothing ever happens. Fans of hip hop will always love it, but you can sell a lot more records if you talk about being hard, getting pussssssy, owning nice rides and booze and drugs to the people who spend their days trying to score those items.
It's a proven money making formula but the dangerous thing is that the caretakers of the art form (those in the limelight today) are actually pimping out their art and turning over the music like they are turning out hoes. They may drive it into the ground. Hip hop will never die, but it could go into serious remission.
Record company execs are suits nowadays too, not like back in the day when people were in it cuz they loved the music. That means they'll care less about skills and more about the bottom line and that formula unfortunately works out better based on how many times you can talk about the 24 inch chain you just copped from Jacob's.

I can agree here....

But I think the part that bothers me is not really the subject matter as much as it is the lack of competent lyrics and innovative production..

I am also bothered by the fact that rapper's seem to be believing their own hype these days


Quote:
Originally Posted by monthh
Hip hop is whatever you want it to be I think. If you want club beats and gangsta rhymes, then listen to Chingy or 50 Cent. If you like old school, listen to KRS-One, Big Daddy Kane, and Busy Bee. It doesn't matter if you like southern hip hop, west coast, east coast, midwest, street, underground, instrumentals, or whatever else. The thing that kind of bothers me is when people think one is better than another or one is not real hip hop.

I dont agree....

I think some of this stuff is rap music but not hip hop music...

Quote:
Hip hop is so much bigger, obviously, than in 1990. Blame Will Smith for making it so mainstream, Rakim for updating it, 2Pac and Biggie for making beefs popular, or MC Hammer for making dance hip hop for your dislike of current hip hop. But you can't attack the kids in the suburbs that like Jeezy.

people forget that Hip-hop is a culture... Some of the stuff people call hip-hop has really nothing to do with the culture....

Rappers can rap about whatever they want, but they at least had to have tight lyrics and good production... You cant just holler laffy taffy and say thats hip-hop....

when rappers used to take their lyrics as the number 1 priority, hip-hop was at its best...

but now we got rappers whose main goal is to be rich, so they try to manufacture the hype and the hits...

that sh*t is transparent......

guys like Cam & 50 & lilWayne wanna spend their time trying to manufacture beef with other rappers so they can make dollars off of fueds and beef...

everyone knows beef sells, but still its has to be genuine....

2pac vs. Biggie beef was real...both artists were already accomplished in their own light....their careers werent based on beefing with people....

LL & Kool Moe Dee were the same.....Nas & Hova was the same...

but now rappers are out there trying to create a buzz or create an image, that unrealistic image and it gets old to listen if there is no balance or no other topics to hear people flow to..


hip-hop isnt dead yet, but it on life support right now
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