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Old 03-28-2012, 02:05 PM   #1
Salazaar
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Default Judge my shooting form

Hello!

A couple of days a go I had myself recorded shooting the ball, and here I ask for your advice. What do you think about my shooting form? How can I improve it? Personally I'd say that I don't have the necessary elevation and don't use my knees enough. Also, I'd want the shooting pocket to be a little bit higher so there's a lesser chance I get blocked, but when I try it I don't have the same feel...

Here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQZ-B...ature=youtu.be (kinda small size, but go to full-screen and it'll be better)

Waiting for your opinion!
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Old 03-28-2012, 04:24 PM   #2
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Default Re: Judge my shooting form

Nice vid, sir. I want to start by saying everyone has their own shooting style so more than anything it's going to be about what works for you. However, if you were looking for some opinions on how to improve upon your current stroke, here are my impressions:

1) You receive passes in an upright position: Typically, a shooter will want to be low and ready prior to catching the basketball. This way, the shooting process becomes a "Rise up-and-shoot" situation. In your particular case, by catching the ball standing straight up, then bending your knees to enter the shooting process, it becomes a "Catch-bend knees-then come back up-then shoot" scenario. In a game situation, this will cost a shooter valuable time.

2) The ball seems to rest behind your head prior to release: As opposed to the ball being in front of your body prior to release, the rock seems to become locked and loaded above and behind your body. I've seen folks make this kind of release work but inherently, I think there's issues that comes along with it. Such as. . .

3) Your shot seems to operate in different segments: By this I mean, the first part of your shot seems to be bending the knees and locking the ball behind your head, while the second part of the shot seems to be the forward arm motion and slight elevation.

Typically, a shooter is most effective when their shot is a part of a singular shooting motion, not one process leading to another. It is my feeling that your current shooting motion is creating a relatively slow shooting process as a result. Further, it seems the catapult motion is where you are tapping into your shooting power, as opposed to your legs.

You mention you'd like your release even higher, but I'm not sure I'd suggest that. If you're having issues with being blocked, it is my belief that may be stemming from your elongated motion as opposed to your release point. The ball sort of chills on a pedestal for a moment.

My solution would be to begin incorporating your legs into your shot in conjunction with bringing your release closer to the front of your body. I'd want to work on one fluid motion:

1. Body low, knees bent, waiting for pass with both hands up, squared up
2. Catch pass, ensure squared position to basket
3. Jump, release, follow through - everything goes up and through at once

Looking at your shot once more, if I had to make a real life comparison, it sort of looks like you're trying to cast a fishing line. And I understand that, because I had/have some of that in my shot as well. But it just seems at this point it's more of a rear back, swing ,and toss than it is rise and shoot.

Last edited by Rake2204 : 03-28-2012 at 04:30 PM.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:51 PM   #3
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Default Re: Judge my shooting form

First of all I'd like to thank you for such an extensive analysis, I really appreciate it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rake2204
2) The ball seems to rest behind your head prior to release: As opposed to the ball being in front of your body prior to release, the rock seems to become locked and loaded above and behind your body.

I know, I've been trying to work on it but even if I try very hard the ball still ends up being very close to my face, and I don't know how to correct it without forcing anything and shooting in an unnatural motion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rake2204
3) Your shot seems to operate in different segments: By this I mean, the first part of your shot seems to be bending the knees and locking the ball behind your head, while the second part of the shot seems to be the forward arm motion and slight elevation.

Typically, a shooter is most effective when their shot is a part of a singular shooting motion, not one process leading to another. It is my feeling that your current shooting motion is creating a relatively slow shooting process as a result. Further, it seems the catapult motion is where you are tapping into your shooting power, as opposed to your legs.

100% agree. I've got to work to incorporate my knees into the shot and try to shoot it faster (without being careless ofc)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rake2204
You mention you'd like your release even higher, but I'm not sure I'd suggest that. If you're having issues with being blocked, it is my belief that may be stemming from your elongated motion as opposed to your release point. The ball sort of chills on a pedestal for a moment.

Several people have told me to try to raise the shooting pocket a little bit, and I observe that (without a few exceptions like Dirk) most shooters have it well above their heads...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rake2204
My solution would be to begin incorporating your legs into your shot in conjunction with bringing your release closer to the front of your body. I'd want to work on one fluid motion:

1. Body low, knees bent, waiting for pass with both hands up, squared up
2. Catch pass, ensure squared position to basket
3. Jump, release, follow through - everything goes up and through at once

Looking at your shot once more, if I had to make a real life comparison, it sort of looks like you're trying to cast a fishing line. And I understand that, because I had/have some of that in my shot as well. But it just seems at this point it's more of a rear back, swing ,and toss than it is rise and shoot.

True, true, very good remark, I haven't thought about it that way but now that I do you're absolutely right.

On the other side, there are so many great NBA shooters with weird shooting form (Dirk, Nash, Bird, Fisher etc) that I don't know if forcing anything would be beneficial to my FG%

Again thanks a lot for the analysis, it was very valuable to me

Last edited by Salazaar : 03-28-2012 at 05:55 PM.
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Old 03-28-2012, 06:04 PM   #4
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Default Re: Judge my shooting form

Agreed with everything Rake said. You are gonna wanna streamline your shooting motion. That hitch when you bring the ball to the top of your shooting motion slows down your release a ton. Incorporating your legs and getting rid of that hitch or at least minimizing it will give you a more consistent result imo. Your form looks like it might cause some problems in game scenarios with a defender or when you are fatigued. Looks like you have a pretty natural touch tho so you should be fine.
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Old 03-29-2012, 05:41 AM   #5
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Default Re: Judge my shooting form

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jailblazers7
Agreed with everything Rake said. You are gonna wanna streamline your shooting motion. That hitch when you bring the ball to the top of your shooting motion slows down your release a ton. Incorporating your legs and getting rid of that hitch or at least minimizing it will give you a more consistent result imo. Your form looks like it might cause some problems in game scenarios with a defender or when you are fatigued. Looks like you have a pretty natural touch tho so you should be fine.

So basically I have to eliminate the catapult motion and try to bring the ball to the shooting pocket faster? The problem is that when I try to do so, I end up rushing and bricking the shot..

Also, is the thing that the ball is close to my head an issue itself?
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Old 03-29-2012, 04:32 PM   #6
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Default Re: Judge my shooting form

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salazaar
Several people have told me to try to raise the shooting pocket a little bit, and I observe that (without a few exceptions like Dirk) most shooters have it well above their heads...
I want to clarify my remarks a little. I see I mentioned your high release and I may have misspoken. High releases are fine. As you said, that's how most shooters finish. I'm still not sure how high you're going to want your initial shooting pocket though.

Typically, if one looks at game tapes closely enough, it can be found that most shooters initially form an "L"-like shape with their strong arm. More than likely, their triceps will be parallel (or close to it) when the shooting process is set in motion. Further, the angle created at the elbow joint is likely going to hover around 90 degrees. It's tough to say what part of the shooting process people are in during snapshots, but here's an idea of what I'm talking about:



It can be seen that Allen's triceps is nearly parallel to the ground at the start of his shot. Whereas, if you freeze frame you shot (say, at the 11 second mark of your video), it is quite clear your shooting arm is just as close to being perpendicular as it is parallel (to the ground). I feel if you were able to move that pocket more toward the front of your body as opposed to on top or behind your body, a lot of other aspects of your shot may begin to fall into place. As Allen continues his process, you'll see he still finishes very high.

Allen, just prior to release:



Allen, mid-release:



So again, he finishes high, but that's not where his shot begins. In truth, unless you make a point to attempt shooting from the hip, your shooting process is likely going to have the ball enough above your head without you consciously trying to raise it up even higher. I feel your primary concern should be the shooting motion itself, as opposed to how high you can get the ball in order to protect against potential shot blockers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salazaar
So basically I have to eliminate the catapult motion and try to bring the ball to the shooting pocket faster? The problem is that when I try to do so, I end up rushing and bricking the shot..

Also, is the thing that the ball is close to my head an issue itself?
I'll say, your shooting process is currently predicated on each particular motion you enact. As such, altering even one thing about your shot, whether it be ridding of the catapult, lowering your base, using your legs, is likely going to make your shot go haywire at first. It can often be a case of falling one step back, but ultimately moving two steps forward.

When I hit a shooting slump, I'll still find myself returning to the front of the rim when I'm working out alone and walking myself through the shooting motion, just to practice and clarify all the processes of a fundamental jump shot.

Last edited by Rake2204 : 03-29-2012 at 04:39 PM.
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Old 03-29-2012, 06:24 PM   #7
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Default Re: Judge my shooting form

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salazaar
So basically I have to eliminate the catapult motion and try to bring the ball to the shooting pocket faster? The problem is that when I try to do so, I end up rushing and bricking the shot..

Also, is the thing that the ball is close to my head an issue itself?

It's all about repitition as far as perfecting your shooting motion. At this point, your shot lacks elevation and your releases is pretty slow which could cause you problems during games. Making adustments will feel awkward initially, but the adjustments will become comfortable over time and will make your shot more effective in game situations. I'd suggest you work on the pointers Rake has provided.
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Old 03-30-2012, 05:21 PM   #8
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Default Re: Judge my shooting form

Thanks a lot, I'll do my best to correct those flaws, but some things are just so deeply ingrained that it's hard to do it the other way... But I'll try, because I want my jumper to be perfect and I will accept nothing less than that..

But some people just say: "shoot it the way it feels comfortable for you, everyone has their own style, don't overanalyse cause it won't makr your shot better if you'll try to force it"... Taking about the 90 degree angle, I want to show you some images:





The angle seems to be comparable to mine (as much perpendicular as parallel) and I'm just wondering.. What would you say about his shooting form?

Cheers!

Last edited by Salazaar : 03-30-2012 at 05:23 PM.
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Old 03-31-2012, 02:54 PM   #9
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Default Re: Judge my shooting form

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salazaar
Thanks a lot, I'll do my best to correct those flaws, but some things are just so deeply ingrained that it's hard to do it the other way... But I'll try, because I want my jumper to be perfect and I will accept nothing less than that..

But some people just say: "shoot it the way it feels comfortable for you, everyone has their own style, don't overanalyse cause it won't makr your shot better if you'll try to force it"... Taking about the 90 degree angle, I want to show you some images:





The angle seems to be comparable to mine (as much perpendicular as parallel) and I'm just wondering.. What would you say about his shooting form?

Cheers!
Yeah I feel you about things being ingrained into our shooting strokes. By no means am I trying to suggest you must change these things. They're merely observations being made, as I think you understand.

With that said, regarding the Nowitzki photos you offered up, I think it is quite clear he is falling away at a significant angle in each instance. And while Nowitzki's stroke is unique regardless, the fact he's falling away makes his elbow much more perpendicular to the floor that it actually would be if he were shooting a normal spot up jumper. Further, it can be seen that despite his body being at an angle, his arm is still forming something within the realm of a 90 degree angle. To be sure, it can be quite tough to judge one's shooting stroke via photo without context.

All that said, your references to Dirk make it apparent to me that is who you're trying to emulate. Is this true? If so, I believe it's worth noting there are a number of reasons Dirk is able to make his unique jumper work, a lot of it having to do with the fact that he's 7'0'' and falls away on his jumpers with great frequency.
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Old 04-01-2012, 07:39 AM   #10
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Default Re: Judge my shooting form

your shot reminds of michael redd's a bit from that angle. Seems like you are "cocking" your shot all the way to back of your head, but maybe a clearer video will allow us to judge it a bit more.

Agreed with rake, when catching the ball you should just "rise up" and not "go down and then rise up" just helps a quicker release against defenders. I like how you are bending and using your legs on your shot though.

You have more of a closed stance of shooting. Stance has to do with your footwork when you shoot the ball, and having the right footwork as your base will help you align your shooting shoulder to the basket. Search up on google if you wanna change to have a more open stance, it certainly helped me in my shooting mechanics.

Overall, if you want to have a quicker release just try to not **** your shot all the way to back of your head and just get ur shot ready by bending legs and then just catch and shoot. Personally i think your elevation is fine, unless you want to change to a "2point shooting style" like kobe where he just pauses in the air shoots it --> it is harder tho as you have to work more on your balance and shooting at the right timing.
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Old 04-01-2012, 01:56 PM   #11
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Default Re: Judge my shooting form

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rake2204

All that said, your references to Dirk make it apparent to me that is who you're trying to emulate. Is this true? If so, I believe it's worth noting there are a number of reasons Dirk is able to make his unique jumper work, a lot of it having to do with the fact that he's 7'0'' and falls away on his jumpers with great frequency.

No, I'm not trying to emulate his shot, I just brought him up because my shot reminds me very much of his shooting technique. But you made a good point, it's probably not right to look at such an unusual shooting form to make general rules


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyap9675
your shot reminds of michael redd's a bit from that angle. Seems like you are "cocking" your shot all the way to back of your head, but maybe a clearer video will allow us to judge it a bit more.

Agreed with rake, when catching the ball you should just "rise up" and not "go down and then rise up" just helps a quicker release against defenders. I like how you are bending and using your legs on your shot though.

You have more of a closed stance of shooting. Stance has to do with your footwork when you shoot the ball, and having the right footwork as your base will help you align your shooting shoulder to the basket. Search up on google if you wanna change to have a more open stance, it certainly helped me in my shooting mechanics.

Indeed, my shot looks very similar to his. I searched up on google but I didn't get it all... Open stance is when (if you're right handed) your right foot is slightly in front of your left foot? Or is it just the opposite way? Also, some sites say I should square up, some say that I shouldn't so I'm a bit confused...

When the weather gets better here I'll make another video and post it up so you can see if I made the right adjustments :)

Last edited by Salazaar : 04-01-2012 at 02:20 PM.
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