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Old 04-12-2012, 07:08 PM   #91
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Default Re: Can we all agree on the 2 best point guards in the game?

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Originally Posted by Celtic_Pride
Pretty much this!

I can only laugh at those who say Rose is a better scorer. Chris Paul is the most versatile scorer in the league right now. Due to his handles, he can score whenever/however he wants to.
CP3 doesn't get double teamed like Rose though. If Rose had the freedom of one on one, he'd be blowing by people all day. Which is why I say the fact Rose is always gets the heaviest defense thrown at him, and still averages 46%, thats damn impressive.
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Old 04-12-2012, 07:09 PM   #92
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Default Re: Can we all agree on the 2 best point guards in the game?

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Originally Posted by Celtic_Pride
Pretty much this!

I can only laugh at those who say Rose is a better scorer. Chris Paul is the most versatile scorer in the league right now. Due to his handles, he can score whenever/however he wants to.

In 2-3 years time, Rose might turn out to be the best PG but right now it's Chris Paul all day

Yup. Only reason Rose scores more is twice the free throw attempts AND more shot attempts. CP3 is clearly the most versatile scorer. Quite possibly best midrange jumper in game this year, great from deep, great at getting into the paint and scoring. NBA players voted him as being the best ballhandler in the NBA and having the best floater/teardrop in the league.
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Old 04-12-2012, 07:10 PM   #93
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Default Re: Can we all agree on the 2 best point guards in the game?

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Originally Posted by Tenchi Ryu
CP3 doesn't get double teamed like Rose though. If Rose had the freedom of one on one, he'd be blowing by people all day. Which is why I say the fact Rose is always gets the heaviest defense thrown at him, and still averages 46%, thats damn impressive.

You can't really double team on the perimeter. It's safe to say neither get double until they penetrate which is often for both players. I don't think Rose gets any more attention than Westbrook, CP3 or Tony Parker.
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Old 04-12-2012, 07:14 PM   #94
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Default Re: Can we all agree on the 2 best point guards in the game?

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Originally Posted by Clippersfan86
You can't really double team on the perimeter. It's safe to say neither get double until they penetrate which is often for both players. I don't think Rose gets any more attention than Westbrook, CP3 or Tony Parker.
Yes he does, and its because of it we've had success. Teams tried to learn from Miami last year, and think the stop Rose, stop the Bulls trick would work this year. Unfortunately for other teams this year, as we are all witnessing, Rose's support just happened to have learned to create offense, so he's used this to his advantage.

Rose doesn't really shoot jumpers like CP3 does, and its the reason his FG% is lower. CP3 goes for the Iso and jumper. Rose drives the lane looking for contact. He misses a significant margin of his shots because he's so heavily guarded.

Take for example the 76ers. When playing Rose, guess who they stick on him? Iggy AND Jrue, at the half-court line.

Last edited by Tenchi Ryu : 04-12-2012 at 07:19 PM.
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Old 04-12-2012, 07:16 PM   #95
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Default Re: Can we all agree on the 2 best point guards in the game?

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Originally Posted by Tenchi Ryu
Yes he does, and its because of it we've had success. Teams tried to learn from Miami last year, and think the stop Rose, stop the Bulls trick would work this year. Unfortunately fpr other teams this year, as we are all witnessing, Rose's support just happened to have learned to create offense, so he's used this to his advantage.

Rose doesn't really shoot jumpers like CP3 does, and its the reason his FG% is lower. CP3 goes for the Iso and jumper. Rose drives the lane looking for contact. He misses a significant margin of his shots because he's so heavily guarded.

Take for example the 76ers. When playing Rose, guess who they stick on him? Iggy AND Jrue, at the half-court line.

If true that's actually not good. Teams can't afford to double CP3 much because they know 10 out of 10 times he will find the right teammate or make the right play. If they are trapping Rose right at halfcourt.. probably means they know he's turnover prone and unlikely to make right decision. If Rose is going to blow by you the best defense is obviously single coverage and give him space, not trap at halfcourt. He's fast enough to get the ball back at any time so denying him the ball won't work.
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Old 04-12-2012, 07:18 PM   #96
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Default Re: Can we all agree on the 2 best point guards in the game?

That's easy; CP3 and Rose.
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Old 04-12-2012, 07:22 PM   #97
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Default Re: Can we all agree on the 2 best point guards in the game?

im sure somebody will take this out of context, or exaggerate its importance, or just generally misevaluate what it means, but rose leades the league in hockey assists:

http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2012...hockey-assist/

there wasnt enough data on deron williams and chris paul so they werent included

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clippersfan86
You can't really double team on the perimeter. It's safe to say neither get double until they penetrate which is often for both players. I don't think Rose gets any more attention than Westbrook, CP3 or Tony Parker.



teams trap rose on the pick and roll on a very regular basis

noah and boozer are both great at flashing to the hi post and making the quick slip pass to the man at the rim, to punish this though.

rose gets a lot more attention than any of the other point guards in the league
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Old 04-12-2012, 07:24 PM   #98
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Default Re: Can we all agree on the 2 best point guards in the game?

Rose gets double teamed because the defense knows that 9 times out of 10 he is still going to try to score.

Paul doesnt get doubled because teams know 9 times out of 10 he will find the open man.

Would Rose have passed the ball to Paxon?
Would Paul?
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Old 04-12-2012, 07:28 PM   #99
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Default Re: Can we all agree on the 2 best point guards in the game?

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Originally Posted by Clippersfan86
If true that's actually not good.
Teams can't afford to double CP3 much because they know 10 out of 10 times he will find the right teammate or make the right play. If they are trapping Rose right at halfcourt.. probably means they know he's turnover prone and unlikely to make right decision. If Rose is going to blow by you the best defense is obviously single coverage and give him space, not trap at halfcourt. He's fast enough to get the ball back at any time so denying him the ball won't work.
The can't afford to double CP3 because they are too busy keeping Griffin in their Radar, and they know damn well that double teaming CP3 will be lob city. Bulls don't play like that, its all about ball movement, which is the system Rose runs, that Thibs makes him run. He sets up multiple people, and the ball basically becomes a hot potato, moving it around constantly. Clippers don't have good passers like Chicago, and they can't afford to use effective ball movement.

Teams try to avoid this ball movement, and cut it off at the source, usually when Rose inbounds. (Like how Shumpert and JR was playing FULLCOURT D on Rose in the 4th quarter). And they failed everytime cause All Rose had to do was dish it to another person capable of facilitating while gets back up court.

And Rose is not turnover prone at all....Teams will chance CP3 cause they know majority of the time, he's going for the jumper, and with that, its always a chance he misses. Its why he was able to catch Thunder off guard last night with that drive to the hoop. NONE of them were expecting that.
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Old 04-12-2012, 07:31 PM   #100
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Default Re: Can we all agree on the 2 best point guards in the game?

CP3 has been in the league 7 years and been out of round 1 once and won only one series in his career.
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Old 04-12-2012, 07:34 PM   #101
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Default Re: Can we all agree on the 2 best point guards in the game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chips93
im sure somebody will take this out of context, or exaggerate its importance, or just generally misevaluate what it means, but rose leades the league in hockey assists:

http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2012...hockey-assist/

there wasnt enough data on deron williams and chris paul so they werent included





teams trap rose on the pick and roll on a very regular basis

noah and boozer are both great at flashing to the hi post and making the quick slip pass to the man at the rim, to punish this though.

rose gets a lot more attention than any of the other point guards in the league

Teams trap CP3 a ton on PNR and force the ball out of his hands too. Just saying... even if Rose gets the most attention it's not like CP3 gets to go 1 on 1 either. The only time he does is on switches and late in shotclock when he calls for ISO which Rose does plenty as well.
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Old 04-12-2012, 07:35 PM   #102
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Default Re: Can we all agree on the 2 best point guards in the game?

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CP3 has been in the league 7 years and been out of round 1 once and won only one series in his career.
Haters, and what they tend to do.

See above post.
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Old 04-12-2012, 07:39 PM   #103
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Default Re: Can we all agree on the 2 best point guards in the game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenchi Ryu
CP3 doesn't get double teamed like Rose though. If Rose had the freedom of one on one, he'd be blowing by people all day. Which is why I say the fact Rose is always gets the heaviest defense thrown at him, and still averages 46%, thats damn impressive.

Very good post. All the dumb people dont realize this. If CP3 was double teamed like Rose, the dude would be shut down on every play.

No one draws as much defensive attention as DRose other than Dwight Howard
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Old 04-12-2012, 07:54 PM   #104
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Default Re: Can we all agree on the 2 best point guards in the game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chips93
im sure somebody will take this out of context, or exaggerate its importance, or just generally misevaluate what it means, but rose leades the league in hockey assists:

http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2012...hockey-assist/

To be fair though, its one of the reasons why stats in general can be flawed, as something like this would never be recorded, yet can be a major factor to team success.
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Old 04-12-2012, 08:14 PM   #105
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Default Re: Can we all agree on the 2 best point guards in the game?

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Originally Posted by Tenchi Ryu
To be fair though, its one of the reasons why stats in general can be flawed, as something like this would never be recorded, yet can be a major factor to team success.


i dont know if you read it or not, but it had some convincing reasons why certain players do well and others dont.
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