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Old 05-01-2012, 04:57 PM   #31
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Default Re: Tim Duncan holds record for most All Defensive Selection (13)...Top 5 All Time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCdac
Haven't read too many of the posts in here...

but before it turns into bickering I'll list off more records of a All-Time great player:

- roughly a hundred 30-point games, thirty 20-20 games, handful of triple-doubles

- In 2003, became the 8th player to win back-to-back MVP's

- In 2003, became the 9th player to win both MVP and FMVP

- The second player in history (w/ Jordan) to win FMVP his first three trips to the Finals.

- The second player in history (w/ Cousy) to start in 12 consecutive AS games.

- As a rookie, became first player to make 1st Team All-NBA since Bird (1980)

- As a rookie, became the 5th player ever to make an All-defensive team.

- As a rookie, lead his team in blocks 43 times, had 5 or more 14 times

- Holds current record for most blocks in a Finals series (32, in 2003)

- Ranks #9 in all-time blocks (2,469), ranks #4 in post-season blocks (453)

Among active players:

#6 in points
#3 in Field Goals Made
#2 in rebounds
#1 in blocks
#4 in FT's made
#4 in Player Efficiency Rating
#1 in Defensive Rating
#1 in Defensive Win Shares
#9 in Usage Percentage

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Old 05-01-2012, 05:01 PM   #32
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Default Re: Tim Duncan holds record for most All Defensive Selection (13)...Top 5 All Time.

It would be more impressive if these things were tracked since the beginning of the nba and not halfway through its history.
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Old 05-01-2012, 05:42 PM   #33
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Default Re: Tim Duncan holds record for most All Defensive Selection (13)...Top 5 All Time.

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Originally Posted by millwad
It wasn't just because Sampson got injured and traded that the Rockets started to suck, they lost numerous players due injuries and due some getting banned because of failing drug tests.

No, you're retarded because you use defensive rating as an argument, look who's 1 and 2 on that list, Elmore Smith and Gar Heard. Neither of them even made an all-defensive team and this is your argument..

And you using Robinson's scoring against Hakeem in '95 again proves that you don't think before you write. The same Robinson won the scoring title in '94 and he came 2nd in '95, he was a great scorer. The same great scorer got limited to a 23.8 point per game average in '95 by Hakeem on a terrible 44% shooting. I can't believe that you actually used that against Hakeem, that is a great accomplishment while also averaging 35 points per game on 56% shooting along with 4 blocks and 5 assists per game..

And Hakeem averaging 4.8 fouls per game in that series is not weird considering that he guarded one of the best scorers in the game in that series while shutting him and he also averaged 4+ blocks and 1+ steals in that series while not getting outfouled in any of those 6 games, you fail again.

Hakeem had his best stats in '94 and '95, those "empty" stats lead him to be the only player who ever got a MVP, DPOY and FMVP in one season and he followed up those "empty" stats in '95 when he crushed Robinson and swept Shaq and won the finals MVP, again..

EMPTY STATS...
Smith was a great shot blocker and rebounder. Not his fault Thurmond, KAJ, Wilt, Walton were making three defensive teams. No way he was making it over those guys. Hakeem outplayed DROB, big ****ing deal, Malone routinely abused DROB as well. DROB had under performed in the playoffs before the 95 series. This was not a shocker. Hakeem swept Shaq, Duncan has beaten Shaq as well.
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Old 05-01-2012, 06:18 PM   #34
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Default Re: Tim Duncan holds record for most All Defensive Selection (13)...Top 5 All Time.

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Originally Posted by bleedinpurpleTwo
pardon me, but you have him ahead of Magic and Bird?
no disrespect to bird and magic but i do have him ahead of them. Career wise Timmy is a monster.
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Old 05-01-2012, 06:39 PM   #35
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Default Re: Tim Duncan holds record for most All Defensive Selection (13)...Top 5 All Time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big#50
Smith was a great shot blocker and rebounder. Not his fault Thurmond, KAJ, Wilt, Walton were making three defensive teams. No way he was making it over those guys. Hakeem outplayed DROB, big ****ing deal, Malone routinely abused DROB as well. DROB had under performed in the playoffs before the 95 series. This was not a shocker. Hakeem swept Shaq, Duncan has beaten Shaq as well.

Again, the fact that Elmore Smith is first and Gar Heard 2nd makes that list completely irrelevant.

Hakeem still is a better offensive and defensive player compared to TD, the only thing TD could do better was to pass and that edge isn't even that big. To the age of 35 their average is equal in the playoffs while only a small edge in the regular season while Hakeem owning TD in every other stat but rebounds where they're about the same.

Duncan really has no case against Hakeem, not on defense and not on offense.
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Old 05-01-2012, 07:23 PM   #36
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Default Re: Tim Duncan holds record for most All Defensive Selection (13)...Top 5 All Time.

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Originally Posted by millwad
Again, the fact that Elmore Smith is first and Gar Heard 2nd makes that list completely irrelevant.

Hakeem still is a better offensive and defensive player compared to TD, the only thing TD could do better was to pass and that edge isn't even that big. To the age of 35 their average is equal in the playoffs while only a small edge in the regular season while Hakeem owning TD in every other stat but rebounds where they're about the same.

Duncan really has no case against Hakeem, not on defense and not on offense.
I doubt you have ever watched either of then play. You seem like a kid that reads into stats a bit too much. It Is guaranteed Duncan would have greater numbers than he does now if he played in the 80's and 90's. Duncan played in a whole different system. He has the edge in the most important stat 4 rings to 2.
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:21 PM   #37
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Default Re: Tim Duncan holds record for most All Defensive Selection (13)...Top 5 All Time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big#50
I doubt you have ever watched either of then play. You seem like a kid that reads into stats a bit too much. It Is guaranteed Duncan would have greater numbers than he does now if he played in the 80's and 90's. Duncan played in a whole different system. He has the edge in the most important stat 4 rings to 2.

Duncan played in the 90's, what are you on? The dude even got himself a nice ring in '99..

And stop acting like Hakeem's advantage only is due him playing in the 80's and 90's. Hakeem had his stat best in the mid 90's, Duncan was drafted in '97..

And no, I never saw Elmore Smith live or Gar Heard and I'm sure you didn't either but it's safe to say that they're not the best and 2nd best defenders ever which makes your defensive rating nonsense completely irrelevant.

And haha, then Horry got the edge over Duncan..
Tim Duncan played in a worse era with better teammates while being less skilled offensively and less skilled defensively.
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Old 05-01-2012, 10:53 PM   #38
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Default Re: Tim Duncan holds record for most All Defensive Selection (13)...Top 5 All Time.

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Originally Posted by millwad
Duncan played in the 90's, what are you on? The dude even got himself a nice ring in '99..

And stop acting like Hakeem's advantage only is due him playing in the 80's and 90's. Hakeem had his stat best in the mid 90's, Duncan was drafted in '97..

And no, I never saw Elmore Smith live or Gar Heard and I'm sure you didn't either but it's safe to say that they're not the best and 2nd best defenders ever which makes your defensive rating nonsense completely irrelevant.

And haha, then Horry got the edge over Duncan..
Tim Duncan played in a worse era with better teammates while being less skilled offensively and less skilled defensively.
You never saw a player in his prime, but you consider them a joke. Should anyone take you serious?
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Old 05-02-2012, 02:26 AM   #39
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Default Re: Tim Duncan holds record for most All Defensive Selection (13)...Top 5 All Time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big#50
You never saw a player in his prime, but you consider them a joke. Should anyone take you serious?

So you still wanna stick with your wish that Elmore Smith and Gar Heard were the two best defenders ever just because it fits your agenda..
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Old 05-02-2012, 02:36 AM   #40
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Default Re: Tim Duncan holds record for most All Defensive Selection (13)...Top 5 All Time.

I Rank Duncan as the 2nd Best CF that Ever Played.
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Old 05-02-2012, 02:50 AM   #41
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Default Re: Tim Duncan holds record for most All Defensive Selection (13)...Top 5 All Time.

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Originally Posted by millwad
So you still wanna stick with your wish that Elmore Smith and Gar Heard were the two best defenders ever just because it fits your agenda..
I never said that. You talk shit about players you never watched. You're full of shit. Gtfo
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Old 05-02-2012, 03:04 AM   #42
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Default Re: Tim Duncan holds record for most All Defensive Selection (13)...Top 5 All Time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big#50
I never said that. You talk shit about players you never watched. You're full of shit. Gtfo

Haha, you're so retarded that it's barely any fun.
I didn't talk shit about any player at all, I just made it clear for you that Elmore and Heard weren't the two best defensive players of all-time which makes your defensive rating crap totally irrelevant..

Don't be mad, cry me a river..
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Old 05-02-2012, 03:56 AM   #43
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Default Re: Tim Duncan holds record for most All Defensive Selection (13)...Top 5 All Time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by millwad
Duncan played in the 90's, what are you on? The dude even got himself a nice ring in '99..

And stop acting like Hakeem's advantage only is due him playing in the 80's and 90's. Hakeem had his stat best in the mid 90's, Duncan was drafted in '97..

And no, I never saw Elmore Smith live or Gar Heard and I'm sure you didn't either but it's safe to say that they're not the best and 2nd best defenders ever which makes your defensive rating nonsense completely irrelevant.

And haha, then Horry got the edge over Duncan..
Tim Duncan played in a worse era with better teammates while being less skilled offensively and less skilled defensively.
Hakeem had his best years is the mid nineties. It is certainy arguable that his best looking stat-line came in 89-90 when he put up
Points/Rebounds/Assists/Blocks/Steals
24.3/14/2.9/4.6/2.1
Of course this occured in a much faster era which is why that year is less impressive (As well as his having 3.9 turnovers per game, shooting a little less accurately than he would in future in a league that was shooting better than it would in future). Which is precisely the guy's point when he said if Duncan had played in the 80s 90s.

Defensive ratings are to my mind flawed, without being an expert, I think they work better at a team level where credit doesn't have to be divided, than on an individual level, where it does.

Then again nor does using raw totals (thereby completely ignoring pace) prove Hakeem the better defender. Especially when blocks and steals make up only a small percentage of defensive plays.
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Old 05-02-2012, 04:16 AM   #44
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Default Re: Tim Duncan holds record for most All Defensive Selection (13)...Top 5 All Time.

Duncan is not top 5.... he's still in the cluster with Kobe, Shaq, and Hakeem on the bottom end of a top 10 list.

Kobe is still a top player in the league now, and when its all said and done, he'll definitely end up above all three of those guys.

By the way kobe is going for All D team #12 this year...
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