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Old 10-15-2012, 10:21 PM   #46
longhornfan1234
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Default Re: Should the government cut entitlements?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Droid101
Then what the **** are you voting republican for? They are against every single thing you list there.

Seriously, I think they have pulled the wool over your eyes. Perhaps you're not a Democrat, but you should really look into voting Libertarian, which seems to match your views perfectly.

Please go read about Gary Johnson, stat: http://www.garyjohnson2012.com/front

In fact, I think we need everyone to find out where they really stand. I'm making a new thread. http://insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=278690



Go find out who you really side with.


I care about fiscal issues more.
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Old 10-15-2012, 10:22 PM   #47
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Default Re: Should the government cut entitlements?

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Originally Posted by joe
What's wrong with a tax break? Why don't you amaze the class and explain how Washington DC deserves even more money from its citizens, when its proven itself to be a financially irresponsible joke? The government collects 2.3 trillion dollars in taxes, is that not enough?

Why is it called a tax "break?" The term itself has a government bias. In other words, the government OWNS all of your money. Anything they let you keep is a "break." Any time you purposefully lower your taxes, you are "cheating." Because as we all know, that's the governments money, not yours.

Explain to me why they need the tax break. Did you read the link I posted or are you just spouting off at the mouth? You want to cut entitlements, but heaven forbid we start with those who don't need it at all? Yeh, how bout you amaze the class and explain that leap in logic. Heaven forbid we stop such and have across the board cuts on other things not needed before we touch the things that actually help people. Do you consider yourself a fiscal conservative too?
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Old 10-15-2012, 11:48 PM   #48
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Default Re: Should the government cut entitlements?

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Originally Posted by IcanzIIravor
Explain to me why they need the tax break. Did you read the link I posted or are you just spouting off at the mouth? You want to cut entitlements, but heaven forbid we start with those who don't need it at all? Yeh, how bout you amaze the class and explain that leap in logic. Heaven forbid we stop such and have across the board cuts on other things not needed before we touch the things that actually help people. Do you consider yourself a fiscal conservative too?

Well...... I guess I agree with you. Sorry, maybe I didn't follow your initial conversation closely enough. I definitely think we should cut other things before entitlements. Like I said before... if it were up to me, I'd cut the entire overseas military budget before I touched entitlements. In fact if possible, I'd like to leave entitlements entirely alone for the elderly and such, but I do think it needs to be phased out. I'm obviously against all welfare/government retirement programs/government health care in principle, but being practical it would be cruel and twisted to just snatch away an old ladies social security check that she's come to depend on. Def. with you there.

I don't receive (and therefore don't need) the tax break considering I'm a fairly broke individual, however, my main objection is not over whether someone "needs" the tax break. Obviously a billionaire isn't going to starve if he pays 5% higher taxes or whatever. I just don't like the language of "tax break." And I also prefer people spending their own money, as opposed to the government spending it.

Last edited by joe : 10-15-2012 at 11:50 PM.
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Old 10-15-2012, 11:53 PM   #49
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Default Re: Should the government cut entitlements?

Here's my thinking. In general I'm socially libratarian but economically I'm very conservative and think taxes should be as low as possible and that there should be as few entitlements as reasonably possible. The problem is we can't afford a tax cut right now and honestly they need to go up a little. The thing is, the republicans can't claim to want a balanced budget but cut taxes and never really cut spending at the same time.

In theory the democrats are for bigger government and more taxes as well as services while the republicans are for smaller govt and smaller taxes and fewer services. The problem is reality has turned into republicans spending a ton and not cutting taxes while democrats spend even more and don't raise taxes enough to pay for it. Our debt is a problem and a huge weakness. We need to start working on fixing it and at this point raising taxes is part of the way that we are going to do that.
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Old 10-16-2012, 08:47 AM   #50
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Default Re: Should the government cut entitlements?

Quote:
Originally Posted by raiderfan19
Here's my thinking. In general I'm socially libratarian but economically I'm very conservative and think taxes should be as low as possible and that there should be as few entitlements as reasonably possible. The problem is we can't afford a tax cut right now and honestly they need to go up a little. The thing is, the republicans can't claim to want a balanced budget but cut taxes and never really cut spending at the same time.

In theory the democrats are for bigger government and more taxes as well as services while the republicans are for smaller govt and smaller taxes and fewer services. The problem is reality has turned into republicans spending a ton and not cutting taxes while democrats spend even more and don't raise taxes enough to pay for it. Our debt is a problem and a huge weakness. We need to start working on fixing it and at this point raising taxes is part of the way that we wre going to do that.

well said. ron paul ftw
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:08 AM   #51
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Default Re: Should the government cut entitlements?

Quote:
Originally Posted by raiderfan19

In theory the democrats are for bigger government and more taxes as well as services while the republicans are for smaller govt and smaller taxes and fewer services. The problem is reality has turned into republicans spending a ton and not cutting taxes while democrats spend even more and don't raise taxes enough to pay for it. Our debt is a problem and a huge weakness. We need to start working on fixing it and at this point raising taxes is part of the way that we are going to do that.

Facts are you friend. Don't let the media lie to you anymore. Republicans are by far the worst spenders.
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:12 AM   #52
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Default Re: Should the government cut entitlements?

Cutting the debt/deficit is important and yes there is inefficiencies in government programs but cutting back on entitlements or military spending is not going to make a long term dent in the debt. The government needs to raise revenue and if they can address long term cost in medicare and social security then their might be some hope in tackling the debt issue. Raising taxes is a hard thing to do politically but Americans need to realize that they need to take short term pain at minimum there should not be any further tax cuts as stimulus simply because of the lack of global demand. All Americans need to take on greater tax burden instead of expecting one group or another to pay the bill.

So, a balance of cutting inefficient or ineffective programs, spending in other areas to reduce future runaway cost, reducing military costs, and increasing government revenues.

An increase in government revenues from a growing economy is preferred but that will be tough to accomplish over the next few years. Also raising taxes could potentially kill jobs. However, in this economic environment I believe that only the government has the tools to create the demand we need to kick start the economy. Instead of dead money lets rebuild hard and soft infrastructure;

retrain workers, invest in preemptive health solutions, reduce post secondary and other skill training costs, etc.

Note: I would say I believe that tax cuts can create jobs but I don't think they can in this environment.
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:22 AM   #53
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Default Re: Should the government cut entitlements?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busine...b04_story.html


Quote:
I am a corporate chief executive.

I am a business owner.

I am a private-equity fund manager.

I am the misunderstood superhero of American capitalism, single-handedly creating wealth and prosperity despite all the obstacles put in my way by employees, government and the media.

I am a job creator and I am entitled.

I am entitled to complain about the economy even when my stock price, my portfolio and my profits are at record levels.

I am entitled to a healthy and well-educated workforce, a modern and efficient transportation system and protection for my person and property, just as I am entitled to demonize the government workers who provide them.

I am entitled to complain bitterly about taxes that are always too high, even when they are at record lows.

I am entitled to a judicial system that efficiently enforces contracts and legal obligations on customers, suppliers and employees but does not afford them the same right in return.

I am entitled to complain about the poor quality of service provided by government agencies even as I leave my own customers on hold for 35 minutes while repeatedly telling them how important their call is.

I am entitled to a compensation package that is above average for my company’s size and industry, reflecting the company’s aspirations if not its performance.

I am entitled to have the company pay for breakfasts and lunches, a luxury car and private jet travel, my country club dues and home security systems, box seats to all major sporting events, a pension equal to my current salary and a full package of insurance — life, health, dental, disability and long-term care — through retirement.

I am entitled to have my earned income taxed as capital gains and my investment income taxed at the lowest rate anywhere in the world — or not at all.

I am entitled to inside information and favorable investment opportunities not available to ordinary investors. I am entitled to brag about my investment returns.

I am entitled to pass on my accumulated wealth tax-free to heirs, who in turn, are entitled to claim that they earned everything they have.

I am entitled to use unlimited amounts of my own or company funds to buy elections without disclosing such expenditures to shareholders or the public.

I am entitled to use company funds to burnish my own charitable reputation.

I am entitled to provide political support to radical, uncompromising politicians and then complain about how dysfunctional Washington has become.

Although I have no clue how government works, I am entitled to be consulted on public policy by politicians and bureaucrats who have no clue about how business works.

I am entitled to publicly criticize the president and members of Congress, who are not entitled to criticize me.

I am entitled to fire any worker who tries to organize a union. I am entitled to break any existing union by moving, or threatening to move, operations to a union-hostile environment.

I am entitled to a duty of care and loyalty from employees and investors who are owed no such duty in return.

I am entitled to operate my business free of all government regulations other than those written or approved by my industry.

I am entitled to load companies up with debt in order to pay myself and investors big dividends — and then blame any bankruptcy on over-compensated workers.

I am entitled to contracts, subsidies, tax breaks, loans and even bailouts from government, even as I complain about job-killing government budget deficits.

I am entitled to federal entitlement reform.

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I am entitled to claim credit for all the profits made during a booming economy while blaming losses or setbacks on adverse market or economic conditions.

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I am entitled to be treated with deference and respect by investors I mislead, customers I bamboozle, directors I manipulate and employees I view as expendable.

I am entitled to be lionized in the media without answering any questions from reporters.

I am entitled to the VIP entrance.

I am entitled to everything I have and more that I still deserve.
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Old 10-16-2012, 03:12 PM   #54
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Default Re: Should the government cut entitlements?

Quote:
Originally Posted by raiderfan19
Here's my thinking. In general I'm socially libratarian but economically I'm very conservative and think taxes should be as low as possible and that there should be as few entitlements as reasonably possible. The problem is we can't afford a tax cut right now and honestly they need to go up a little. The thing is, the republicans can't claim to want a balanced budget but cut taxes and never really cut spending at the same time.

In theory the democrats are for bigger government and more taxes as well as services while the republicans are for smaller govt and smaller taxes and fewer services. The problem is reality has turned into republicans spending a ton and not cutting taxes while democrats spend even more and don't raise taxes enough to pay for it. Our debt is a problem and a huge weakness. We need to start working on fixing it and at this point raising taxes is part of the way that we are going to do that.

you can't just cut everything in a down economy when people are already hurting, it puts a lot of people into desperate circumstances. thats why both parties are spending more than they regularly would, and thats why Independents like Ron Paul would completely fukk us because they want us to take a huge hit at once to try to fix everything which is dumb.

they wanted to put us into a Depression by letting everything fail at the same time and wreck our economy rather than us spending/lending to keep the economy from sinking, and they also wanted us to not pay our debts by not raising the debt ceiling which would have had worse effects on our credit rating than the threat of it did with the downgraded rating. Democrats wouldn't be spending as much as they are now if the economy weren't so down. a lot of that spending was to create jobs, stimulate the economy, etc.

its just a lot more intelligent to get back to cutting and paying off our debt when our economy is back on its feet to some degree. people are naive to think big companies employing thousands spring up over night or thinking we can just pull ourselves out of a deeper ditch, and it not being much different than a shallower one. it'd be MUCH worse in a deeper economic hole we're in.

the other thing that makes me laugh about Ron Paul is his expectations of communities to come together and help each other out to make up for lack of government services/programs in a every man for himself environment that he wants to create. you look at any community that he's describing that helps one another, and they're all socialist to some degree. community is not fostered thru capitalist ideals, selfishness is.

Last edited by Godzuki : 10-16-2012 at 03:28 PM.
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