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Old 01-10-2013, 10:11 PM   #76
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Default Re: GOAT defensive players?

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Originally Posted by jazz873
This is exactly why AP ran over the Packers defense the first two meetings. The secondary missed tackles.
So you blame Tramon and that rookie CB?...no dude, a RB should never make it to the secondary but if he does it is usually tge "safety" that is the last line of defense...the two safties are supposed to be the safety net, that is how tge position got its name.

CBs match up with WRs...they aren't even supposed to look at RB unless he has obviously already passed the LOS
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:58 PM   #77
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Default Re: GOAT defensive players?

Tackling is important for any defensive postition. Corners who can tackle well and not get burned in coverage are a premium asset.

You appreciate good tacklng from your corners a lot more when they're on your team and said tackles turn a would be 10 yard gain into a 2 yard gain.
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:25 PM   #78
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Default Re: GOAT defensive players?

eh, IMO it isn't that important, I don't think any GM has ever drafted or NOT drafted a CB based on the type of tackler they are...I don't remember anyone bringing up what kind of tackler Claiborne was when he was drafted...or any other CB for that matter.

if it was THAT important we would see LB sized players at CB lol

A CB's tackling ability is about as important as a WR's blocking ability...sometimes a WR missing a block will cost a big play (just like a CB missing a tackle) but no one ever ranks WRs based on blocking or views it as one of their main traits or drafts a WR because he can block good...eh, really even that is a bad comparison because some outside runs are reliant on the WR blocking but there is no defense that is reliant on the CBs tackling RBs....it's always LBs first, even on an all out blitz the LBs should pick up the tackle first.

If we had a nation wide poll of who the greatest CB of all time was I am betting Deion (the poor tackler) would win said poll...why? because coverage skills are THAT much more important for a CB in comparsion for tackling.

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Old 01-10-2013, 11:51 PM   #79
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Default Re: GOAT defensive players?

Quote:
Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
eh, IMO it isn't that important, I don't think any GM has ever drafted or NOT drafted a CB based on the type of tackler they are...I don't remember anyone bringing up what kind of tackler Claiborne was when he was drafted...or any other CB for that matter.

if it was THAT important we would see LB sized players at CB lol

A CB's tackling ability is about as important as a WR's blocking ability...sometimes a WR missing a block will cost a big play (just like a CB missing a tackle) but no one ever ranks WRs based on blocking or views it as one of their main traits or drafts a WR because he can block good...eh, really even that is a bad comparison because some outside runs are reliant on the WR blocking but there is no defense that is reliant on the CBs tackling RBs....it's always LBs first, even on an all out blitz the LBs should pick up the tackle first.

If we had a nation wide poll of who the greatest CB of all time was I am betting Deion (the poor tackler) would win said poll...why? because coverage skills are THAT much more important for a CB in comparsion for tackling.

Obvously covergage skills trump tackling as far as corners go. Nobody is saying otherwise.

But when you have great tacklers at corner, you know and appreciate it as a fan. I'm sure Minnesota loves Winfield for that very reason, he's like an extra linebacker.safety hybrd in there with the way he tackles, same with Woodson.
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Old 01-11-2013, 03:57 PM   #80
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Default Re: GOAT defensive players?

Hmmm maybe we should divide the legendary defenders up...three options I have in mind:

• positionally (linemen, linebackers, secondary)
• by era (either by decade, or pre-/post-merger)
• against the run/against the pass

what do you guys think?
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Old 01-11-2013, 04:48 PM   #81
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Default Re: GOAT defensive players?

Barry had negative yards because his team's offensive scheme didn't provide enough blockers, his team wasn't that good.

Deion was a poor tackler because he shied away from contact.


Big difference.
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Old 01-11-2013, 04:54 PM   #82
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Default Re: GOAT defensive players?

no dude, Barry ran backward because he was notorious for bouncing away from the hole and trying to make something happen...and many times he did make something happen, but other times he was tackled way behind the LOS

watch the NFL Films "Barry Runs Backward"
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Old 01-11-2013, 04:58 PM   #83
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Default Re: GOAT defensive players?

The idea the Barry was the entire offense in Detroit is more overblown than Deion not being able to tackle

Barry ran behind 3 Probowl lineman during his stay there, they weren't NEARLY as awful as everyone makes them out, and also had Brett Perriman and Herman Moore who was a Probowl WR for 4 straight years with Barry that opened up the field for him...Detroit had a legit pass game going
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Old 01-12-2013, 02:39 AM   #84
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Default Re: GOAT defensive players?

Quote:
Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-

That article seems to be rather short-sighted all the way through. I do agree that Barry was a bit overrated, though.

Quote:
a RB should never make it to the secondary but if he does it is usually tge "safety" that is the last line of defense...the two safties are supposed to be the safety net, that is how tge position got its name.

The **** are you smoking? You really expect a defense to play perfectly to where corners never have to tackle? What kind of dream world do you live in? It's just highly, highly unrealistic to say something crazy like that.

Quote:
If we had a nation wide poll of who the greatest CB of all time was I am betting Deion (the poor tackler) would win said poll...why? because coverage skills are THAT much more important for a CB in comparsion for tackling.

Even if that were true, the **** does that prove? He might win, but it would be because he's probably the most known CB to ever play the game. Ask an average fan to name the 5 best CBs ever and I wouldn't be surprised if they name all/mostly recent players.
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Old 01-12-2013, 11:27 PM   #85
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Default Re: GOAT defensive players?

The Ponytail's take

1. Lawrence Taylor: He changed the game. He was so good at rushing the quarterback, Bill Parcells put him as a 3-4 linebacker and just let him rush. When you watch games, most of the time your eyes angle toward the quarterback. During the L.T. days, you ended up watching him. He was that good.

2. Reggie White: He was unblockable. White is considered the greatest unrestricted free agent in NFL history. Once he went to Green Bay, the Packers returned to their status as a legacy franchise. I can't tell you how many times I'd see White get angry at some cheap-shot block and then decide to line up in front of offender and embarrass him with a "hump" move.

3. "Mean" Joe Greene: Chuck Noll built perhaps the greatest football dynasty around Mean Joe. As a rookie, Greene was a little like Ndamukong Suh. Not only was he was difficult to block, he also lived up to his nickname. Veterans told him he didn't have to take the cheap shots, so Greene dominated cleanly and professionally.

4. Dick Butkus: NFL Films and the Sabol family captured his greatest on tape every week. Growing up, I looked forward to NFL Films' weekly highlights show in order to see the best of Butkus. Had he played now, he would be on the "SportsCenter" highlights every Sunday night.

5. Ray Lewis: I still remember a Ravens training camp at which I had to ask Lewis about his tackling style. Lewis always seemed to explode as he neared a ball carrier. I asked him whether my observation was valid.

Lewis smiled and noted that he was a wrestler in high school and much of that explosion came from his wrestling techniques. Could you imagine going against Lewis on a wrestling mat?

The 2000 Ravens defense was the third-best I've seen, ranking behind the 1970s Steelers' Steel Curtain and the 1985 Chicago Bears, and Lewis was the leader. What was amazing is how his presence has been able to help Baltimore maintain its defensive toughness for so long.

Lewis was Butkus-tough, but he was the perfect middle linebacker because of his range. When the Ravens eventually switched to a 3-4 defense, Lewis told me why their 3-4 was so different. Normally, 3-4 defensive coaches like bigger players. They like 260-pound outside linebackers who are tall. They like stout inside linebackers to stuff and run and ward off blockers.

The Ravens' 3-4 was always different because Lewis could run and tackle from sideline to sideline. He made sure the rest of the starting linebacker corps could also run, which allowed them to use lighter, more agile defenders.

One of the highlights of my tour of training camps this year was seeing Lewis at his lightest. To regain some of his speed and quickness, Lewis spent the offseason riding a bike. He rode as much as 80 miles a day.

It allowed him to come to camp more than 20 pounds lighter than the previous season.

Lewis will be missed next season, but I will be looking forward to the Pro Football Hall of Fame vote for him in five years. He will be inducted on the first ballot. He's earned it.
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