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Old 01-29-2013, 01:58 PM   #346
ItsMillerTime
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire Novels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke117
This series became a disaster when Martin went away from his original trilogy...to five books...then decided on 7 books. That may work when you have your story thought out at the BEGINNING, but he didn't..he was just writing and decided he needed more. SoIaF is becoming the new "Wheel of time". The author has just plain lost his way. Read the Malazan novels.



You're in the very very very small minority that thinks this. He already knows how the story ends and has known for quite some time. He realized this ENTIRE WORLD he created needed to be covered by more than just 3 books, and he's right, no fkn way this story gets completed in 3 books. I personally like all the side-stories and history of Westeros, if I had my way he'd be writing 10+ books.
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:02 PM   #347
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire Novels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke117
I'm surprised so many people even read these novels. I've read up to 4 and that was when they were all out. I stopped caring about the series because of how off track George got and there is a lot of other fantasy novels out there to read (plus I read other genres) beside this where you don't have to wait 5 years for a new novel and then have it not even push the story forward. This series became a disaster when Martin went away from his original trilogy...to five books...then decided on 7 books. That may work when you have your story thought out at the BEGINNING, but he didn't..he was just writing and decided he needed more. SoIaF is becoming the new "Wheel of time". The author has just plain lost his way. Read the Malazan novels.
You are in the minority.

And IMO, his books are worth reading just for the narrative and character building alone. They dont necessarily require a speedy ending. Sure not having one in the near future is frustrating but the grand fan base it has, is proof that we all care.
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:22 PM   #348
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire Novels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke117
Read the Malazan novels.


From Publishers Weekly

Quote:

In the first of a projected 10 volumes of the Malazan Book of the Fallen, the Malazan Empire is up to its eyebrows in the intrigues of mage Anomander Rake and his sorcerous minions, the Tiste Andii.


In this sprawling fantasy epic of the Malazan empire at war with its enemies and itself, the first of a projected 10-volume series, Canadian newcomer Erikson offers many larger-than-life scenes and ideas, but his characters seem to shrink to fit the story.


So you are recommending a series that is 10 books in length. Is seen as having weak characters. Has 7-9 books over 1000 - 1200 pages. Yet saying that The Ice and Fire series will be too long and that its far reaching in its attempt to tell a story? Seems like your just frustrated with not having all the books available as opposed to really caring about length or wide story spanning.
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:26 PM   #349
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire Novels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waking_Life
From Publishers Weekly




So you are recommending a series that is 10 books in length. Is seen as having weak characters. Has 7-9 books over 1000 - 1200 pages. Yet saying that The Ice and Fire series will be too long and that its far reaching in its attempt to tell a story? Seems like your just frustrated with not having all the books available as opposed to really caring about length or wide story spanning.

From what I looked up last night, each book basically ends the story arc. The only reason the 10 of them are a set is because they have some of the same characters and the same locations.
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:32 PM   #350
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire Novels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti Hero
From what I looked up last night, each book basically ends the story arc. The only reason the 10 of them are a set is because they have some of the same characters and the same locations.
Oh so you mean that they are not comparable because each has a different goal of storytelling. Seems its more like the way Mystery series work, rather than a fantasy epic which it seems the Ice and Fire series is. Encapsulation vs. An Epic Series.
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:34 PM   #351
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire Novels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waking_Life
Oh so you mean that they are not comparable because each has a different goal of storytelling. Seems more like the way Mystery series work than a fantasy epic that is looking to tell one large story, which it seems the Ice and Fire series is doing.

I'm not totally sure but that's the sense I got from the wiki last night. There is some overlapping I guess but all major conflict is resolved by the end of each book.
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Old 01-30-2013, 05:52 AM   #352
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire Novels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waking_Life
From Publishers Weekly




So you are recommending a series that is 10 books in length. Is seen as having weak characters. Has 7-9 books over 1000 - 1200 pages. Yet saying that The Ice and Fire series will be too long and that its far reaching in its attempt to tell a story? Seems like your just frustrated with not having all the books available as opposed to really caring about length or wide story spanning.

I just said Malazan as I'm currently reading some of the novels Ian Cameron Esslemont wrote. (he created the Malazan world with Steven Erikson) I've already read the original 10.

I read ASoIaF all at once as far as the first four novels. I enjoyed it a lot but I can't say I have much interest in a series where a novel comes out every 5 years and having read a lot of fantasy the series gets immensely overrated. There are better series out there like: Tad Williams - Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn (which Martin has admitted was a big influence on him), Robin Hobb's Farseer and Liveship Traders trilogies, Patrick Rothfuss KingKiller Chronicles and Brandon Sanderson has a lot of potential.
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Old 01-31-2013, 05:21 PM   #353
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire Novels

Holy shitballs

Kings Landing made in Minecraft

Apparently all of the buildings have furniture, they are planning on expanding and making the rest of Westeros too.
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:33 PM   #354
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire Novels

From Neil Gaiman's blog. An interesting perspective.


Quote:
Hi Neil,

I've recently subscribed to George RR Martin's blog (http://grrm.livejournal.com/) in the hopes of getting some inside information regarding when the next "Song of Ice and Fire" book is due to be released. I love the series but since subscribing to the blog I've become increasingly frustrated with Martin's lack of communication on the next novel's publication date. In fact, it's almost as though he is doing everything in his power to avoid working on his latest novel. Which poses a few questions:

1. With blogs and twitter and other forms of social media do you think the audience has too much input when it comes to scrutinising the actions of an artist? If you had announced a new book two years ago and were yet to deliver do you think avoiding the topic on your blog would lead readers to believe you were being "slack"? By blogging about your work and life do you have more of a responsibility to deliver on your commitments?

2. When writing a series of books, like Martin is with "A Song of Ice and Fire" what responsibility does he have to finish the story? Is it unrealistic to think that by not writing the next chapter Martin is letting me down, even though if and when the book gets written is completely up to him?

Would be very interested in your insight.

Cheers
Gareth

My opinion....

1) No.

2) Yes, it's unrealistic of you to think George is "letting you down".

Look, this may not be palatable, Gareth, and I keep trying to come up with a better way to put it, but the simplicity of things, at least from my perspective is this:

George R.R. Martin is not your bitch.

This is a useful thing to know, perhaps a useful thing to point out when you find yourself thinking that possibly George is, indeed, your bitch, and should be out there typing what you want to read right now.

People are not machines. Writers and artists aren't machines.

You're complaining about George doing other things than writing the books you want to read as if your buying the first book in the series was a contract with him: that you would pay over your ten dollars, and George for his part would spend every waking hour until the series was done, writing the rest of the books for you.

No such contract existed. You were paying your ten dollars for the book you were reading, and I assume that you enjoyed it because you want to know what happens next.

It seems to me that the biggest problem with series books is that either readers complain that the books used to be good but that somewhere in the effort to get out a book every year the quality has fallen off, or they complain that the books, although maintaining quality, aren't coming out on time.

Both of these things make me glad that I am not currently writing a series, and make me even gladder that the decade that I did write series things, in Sandman, I was young, driven, a borderline workaholic, and very fortunate. (and even then, towards the end, I was taking five weeks to write a monthly comic, with all the knock-on problems in deadlines that you would expect from that).

For me, I would rather read a good book, from a contented author. I don't really care what it takes to produce that.

Some writers need a while to charge their batteries, and then write their books very rapidly. Some writers write a page or so every day, rain or shine. Some writers run out of steam, and need to do whatever it is they happen to do until they're ready to write again. Sometimes writers haven't quite got the next book in a series ready in their heads, but they have something else all ready instead, so they write the thing that's ready to go, prompting cries of outrage from people who want to know why the author could possibly write Book X while the fans were waiting for Book Y.

I remember hearing an upset comics editor telling a roomful of other editors about a comics artist who had taken a few weeks off to paint his house. The editor pointed out, repeatedly, that for the money the artist would have been paid for those weeks' work he could easily have afforded to hire someone to paint his house, and made money too. And I thought, but did not say, “But what if he wanted to paint his house?”

I blew a deadline recently. Terminally blew it. First time in 25 years I've sighed and said, “I can't do this, and you won't get your story.” It was already late, I was under a bunch of deadline pressure, my father died, and suddenly the story, too, was dead on the page. I liked the voice it was in, but it wasn't working, and eventually, rather than drive the editors and publishers mad waiting for a story that wasn't going to come, I gave up on it and apologised, worried that I could no longer write fiction.

I turned my attention to the next deadline waiting – a script. It flowed easily and delightfully, was the most fun I've had writing anything in ages, all the characters did exactly what I had hoped they would do, and the story was better than I had dared to hope.

Sometimes it happens like that. You don't choose what will work. You simply do the best you can each time. And you try to do what you can to increase the likelihood that good art will be created.

And sometimes, and it's as true of authors as it is of readers, you have a life. People in your world get sick or die. You fall in love, or out of love. You move house. Your aunt comes to stay. You agreed to give a talk half-way around the world five years ago, and suddenly you realise that that talk is due now. Your last book comes out and the critics vociferously hated it and now you simply don't feel like writing another. Your cat learns to levitate and the matter must be properly documented and investigated. There are deer in the apple orchard. A thunderstorm fries your hard disk and fries the backup drive as well...

And life is a good thing for a writer. It's where we get our raw material, for a start. We quite like to stop and watch it.

The economics of scale for a writer mean that very few of us can afford to write 5,000 page books and then break them up and publish them annually once they are done. So writers with huge stories, or ones that, as Sandman did, grow in the telling, are going to write them and have them published as they go along.

And if you are waiting for a new book in a long ongoing series, whether from George or from Pat Rothfuss or from someone else...

Wait. Read the original book again. Read something else. Get on with your life. Hope that the author is writing the book you want to read, and not dying, or something equally as dramatic. And if he paints the house, that's fine.

And Gareth, in the future, when you see other people complaining that George R.R. Martin has been spotted doing something other than writing the book they are waiting for, explain to them, more politely than I did the first time, the simple and unanswerable truth: George R. R. Martin is not working for you.

Hope that helps.
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Old 02-06-2013, 03:28 PM   #355
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire Novels

btw..HBO just hired GRRM to produce all GoT episodes as well as develop new shows for them...so don't expect the series to end any time soon
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Old 02-06-2013, 03:46 PM   #356
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire Novels

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btw..HBO just hired GRRM to produce all GoT episodes as well as develop new shows for them...so don't expect the series to end any time soon
Worst. News. Ever.
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:14 PM   #357
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire Novels

Quote:
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btw..HBO just hired GRRM to produce all GoT episodes as well as develop new shows for them...so don't expect the series to end any time soon

The Winds of Winter 2030 release date?
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:15 PM   #358
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire Novels

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The Winds of Winter 2030 release date?
Fat Man may be dead in less than 10 years.. Ponder on that..
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:40 PM   #359
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire Novels

shiiiiiiiit. Although, the article I read doesn't state when he will actually begin working on new projects. I feel pretty safe in saying he will release TWoW before developing brand new material, considering there are multiple sample chapters out already. Now the 7th book is a completely different story. :\
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:22 PM   #360
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire Novels

What will come out first? Detox or TWOW?
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