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Old 08-26-2019, 05:05 PM   #121
coin24
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Default Re: Trump going full Hitler

Quote:
Originally Posted by stalkerforlife


Kid is such a p ussy.

So cringe.

So obtuse.

There's no way he isn't a dedicated troll.

No one is this stupid.


He really is
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Old 08-26-2019, 05:14 PM   #122
Hawker
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Default Re: Trump going full Hitler

Quote:
Originally Posted by RRR3
You think I would care if I lived around a bunch of illegal immigrants?
If that was the place I could afford, fine. I’m gonna have to get an apartment within the next year and I doubt it’ll be very expensive and I can tell you, I won’t care who I live by as long as they’re not assholes.

Imagine that - someone who has indicated they have never lived on their own being a leftist.
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Old 08-26-2019, 07:13 PM   #123
Patrick Chewing
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Default Re: Trump going full Hitler

I wouldn’t want that dick-lovin’ tranny lover in my neighborhood.
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Old 08-26-2019, 07:18 PM   #124
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Default Re: Trump going full Hitler

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawker
Imagine that - someone who has indicated they have never lived on their own being a leftist.

Who would have guessed?
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Old 08-26-2019, 08:16 PM   #125
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Default Re: Trump going full Hitler

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Originally Posted by Patrick Chewing
I wouldn’t want that dick-lovin’ tranny lover in my neighborhood.



tio you have to learn to be more compassionate and tolerent.
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Old 08-27-2019, 05:54 AM   #126
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Default Re: Trump going full Hitler

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawker
Individual receipts up. Total tax revenue up. Nice spin though with the corporate tax rate citation though because saying tax revenue going up wouldn't fit with that agenda.

What you've said here is the real spin. Tax revenue has gone up, but the amount that it has increased is much lower than the projections prior to the tax cut, specifically because of the tax cut. This is a simple mathematical concept that most of us should have learned in middle school. If, for example, you expect a 2% raise, it is pure delusion to look at a 0.5% raise and say, "See, I'm making more money! Everything is great!" Sure, you're making more, but the increase is much less than you expected. Put another way, there is no publicly traded company whose share price would not plummet precipitously if analysts predicted that their revenue would increase by 5% year over year, only for them to reveal during their quarterly earnings call that their revenue only increased by 2%.

Quote:
And yes, when you have lots of money, it's more likely going to help those with more money more. We all paid attention to percentages in math class.

And that's why, if we were going to cut taxes, targeted cuts for the middle class made more sense. The huge consumer base of the middle class drives our economy. The more money in their pockets, the more they buy and the better our business perform; the better our businesses perform, the more they can pay workers, make capital investments, and yes, buy back stock, and the stronger our economy will be. Again, economists now generally agree that the Trump tax cuts didn't do much for the economy because the individuals and corporations who got the lions share of the benefit didn't really need the money in the first place, and they weren't planning to spend it in ways that would bolster the economy. Those who paid attention to percentages in math should have paid a little more attention in junior high Econ.

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And however companies spent it (and despite the sensationalism in the media...there are companies that didn't do stock buy backs), they should be the ones to determine how they spend it as it is their money - not the government's. And stock buy backs are a better use of money than it going to the government.

Sure... no argument from me that companies should determine how they want to spend their money. However, when CEOs, analysts and economists, predicted that companies would largely spend their tax savings on stock buy backs, that should have been a red flag to the administration that the tax cuts would not have the stimulative effects they were promising. Again, it's not like people did not predict exactly what would happen.

Now, if the Trump administration says that they want to cut corporate taxes from 21% to 14% to boost the economy and corporations respond, "Oh great, we'll use some for more stock buybacks, but most for acquisitions and expanding subsidiaries overseas," it still holds that companies get decide how they want to spend their money, but few will respond well to how they want to spend it... including Republicans. As George Bush said, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice... well... you... you can't fool me again."

Quote:
Not to mention the lowering of the tax rate got us close to the average OECD rate. Nordic countries didn't even have the absurd corporate tax rate that we had before and they are always pointed to as pillars of corporate regulations. (Guess how they pay for all their social programs? Not with corporate taxes!)

I love when people point to corporate tax rates in Nordic countries while ignoring the high individual and payroll tax rates of those countries. I should also note that their top marginal rates kick in at much lower personal income levels than they do in the US. Then there are the high VATs levied throughout the production process with citizens basically paying a national sales tax on goods and services when purchased. Some of those Nordic countries have VAT rates as high as 25%. The US (states) collects something like 2% of the GDP through sales taxes. Sweden collects 9% of it's GDP through VATs. It should also be noted that Norway can charge its companies a tax rate of something like 65% to extract oil (Norway has significant oil reserves). These countries make their money, and it doesn't always show up as the simple corporate tax rates that we are familiar with.

Lastly, right now, tax on corporate profits as a share of the GDP in the US is in the low 1% range. The OECD average is in the high 2% range. For Norway, it's about 4.5%. Context tends to do away with simplicity, especially when dealing with tax policy.

Last edited by MaxFly : 08-27-2019 at 05:57 AM.
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Old 08-27-2019, 03:11 PM   #127
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Default Re: Trump going full Hitler

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxFly
What you've said here is the real spin. Tax revenue has gone up, but the amount that it has increased is much lower than the projections prior to the tax cut, specifically because of the tax cut. This is a simple mathematical concept that most of us should have learned in middle school. If, for example, you expect a 2% raise, it is pure delusion to look at a 0.5% raise and say, "See, I'm making more money! Everything is great!" Sure, you're making more, but the increase is much less than you expected. Put another way, there is no publicly traded company whose share price would not plummet precipitously if analysts predicted that their revenue would increase by 5% year over year, only for them to reveal during their quarterly earnings call that their revenue only increased by 2%.

And we still would've had a deficit with the projected tax revenue and the spending bill that was passed which tells me it's a spending problem and not a tax revenue problem. Again, why I'm agnostic to the complaints about deficits from you and many others on this site. I know they aren't genuine.

And no public company would exist if they claimed a deficit year after year after year. And no public company would claim a "surplus" (like it's claimed in the 90s) when government debt increased that same year.



Quote:
And that's why, if we were going to cut taxes, targeted cuts for the middle class made more sense. The huge consumer base of the middle class drives our economy. The more money in their pockets, the more they buy and the better our business perform; the better our businesses perform, the more they can pay workers, make capital investments, and yes, buy back stock, and the stronger our economy will be. Again, economists now generally agree that the Trump tax cuts didn't do much for the economy because the individuals and corporations who got the lions share of the benefit didn't really need the money in the first place, and they weren't planning to spend it in ways that would bolster the economy. Those who paid attention to percentages in math should have paid a little more attention in junior high Econ.

Middle class did get tax cuts but they don't make nearly as much money as rich people so the percentages will be skewed. This was widely reported back during tax time even though the democrats ran a campaign saying it didn't. Apparently you still believe it. Savings and investments creates jobs btw...not consumption. So if individuals and corporations are saving it that will bolster the economy. And benefits can be seen way down the line in that savings and taxes take away that savings.



Quote:
Sure... no argument from me that companies should determine how they want to spend their money. However, when CEOs, analysts and economists, predicted that companies would largely spend their tax savings on stock buy backs, that should have been a red flag to the administration that the tax cuts would not have the stimulative effects they were promising. Again, it's not like people did not predict exactly what would happen.

Now, if the Trump administration says that they want to cut corporate taxes from 21% to 14% to boost the economy and corporations respond, "Oh great, we'll use some for more stock buybacks, but most for acquisitions and expanding subsidiaries overseas," it still holds that companies get decide how they want to spend their money, but few will respond well to how they want to spend it... including Republicans. As George Bush said, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice... well... you... you can't fool me again."

That's fine and they would be incorrect. The government having that money wouldn't stimulate the economy either.

Also, stock buy backs were hitting records ever since the recession year after year - yet they were never mentioned until the tax cut. Any reason as to why this was also happening? Have anything to do with zero to near zero interest rates? Why was this never widely reported in the media? These stock buy backs are not a new thing. I'm also positive there are companies out there that used the tax cut to create jobs which to me would be a net positive of the tax cut and make it worth it.


Quote:
I love when people point to corporate tax rates in Nordic countries while ignoring the high individual and payroll tax rates of those countries. I should also note that their top marginal rates kick in at much lower personal income levels than they do in the US. Then there are the high VATs levied throughout the production process with citizens basically paying a national sales tax on goods and services when purchased. Some of those Nordic countries have VAT rates as high as 25%. The US (states) collects something like 2% of the GDP through sales taxes. Sweden collects 9% of it's GDP through VATs. It should also be noted that Norway can charge its companies a tax rate of something like 65% to extract oil (Norway has significant oil reserves). These countries make their money, and it doesn't always show up as the simple corporate tax rates that we are familiar with.

Lastly, right now, tax on corporate profits as a share of the GDP in the US is in the low 1% range. The OECD average is in the high 2% range. For Norway, it's about 4.5%. Context tends to do away with simplicity, especially when dealing with tax policy.

Thanks for condescendingly telling me a bunch of stuff I already knew. Jesus christ - Norway has significant oil reserves? Wow! Who knew?

This is why I said they don't pay stuff with corporate taxes..heavily implying that GST/VATs and high marginal tax rates on individuals are how its done. There's a good reason why they don't have high corporate tax rates and why some of those countries actually rate higher on the business friendliness rankings than the US.

You shouldn't be telling me this btw - tell that to the democrats who want massive social programs (reparations, public healthcare, free college, free healthcare for illegals etc.) without telling their constituents it's going to come with double or triple the marginal tax rates. And get them to explain why they have their corporate tax rates low (hint: that's where the jobs comes from and they arent a reliable tax base).
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Old 08-27-2019, 03:59 PM   #128
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Default Re: Trump going full Hitler

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpols
tio you have to learn to be more compassionate and tolerent.


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Old 08-28-2019, 10:26 PM   #129
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Default Re: Trump going full Hitler

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawker
And we still would've had a deficit with the projected tax revenue and the spending bill that was passed which tells me it's a spending problem and not a tax revenue problem. Again, why I'm agnostic to the complaints about deficits from you and many others on this site. I know they aren't genuine.

The deficit would not be increasing this quickly and set to eclipse a trillion dollars had it not been for the tax cuts... cuts that economists agree had little lasting power in boosting the economy and were supposed to help decrease the deficit according to the current administration. Somewhere along the way, the debt and deficit became far less important to those who were setting themselves on fire about it only a few years ago, and I fully expect those same people to be extremely concerned about the debt and deficit again when a Democrat or Independent eventually takes the White House. It turns out that their concern, and that of those who give them a pass, wasn't and isn't genuine. We knew that then and we have solid proof of it now.

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And no public company would exist if they claimed a deficit year after year after year.

Lol, you sure about that? There are a number of publicly traded companies that have consistently posted losses over the last several years. But let's not be too quick to change the subject. As I stated previously, the "but revenues increased!" spin seeks to completely ignore the fact that revenues increased much less than predicted, and will continue to do so. Those using that argument should should retire it.

Quote:
Middle class did get tax cuts but they don't make nearly as much money as rich people so the percentages will be skewed. This was widely reported back during tax time even though the democrats ran a campaign saying it didn't. Apparently you still believe it. Savings and investments creates jobs btw...not consumption. So if individuals and corporations are saving it that will bolster the economy. And benefits can be seen way down the line in that savings and taxes take away that savings.

The US economy runs on the buying power and agency of the consumer middle class. The tax cuts should have been been better targeted to benefit the middle class... that is to say, middle class individuals should have been given a deeper tax cut and wealthier individuals a much more shallow tax cut, if any at all, if the goal was really to stimulate the economy.

Consumption that leads to increased demand typically helps create jobs. Jobs in industries that are experiencing faltering demand tend to disappear pretty quickly.

Quote:
That's fine and they would be incorrect. The government having that money wouldn't stimulate the economy either.

Putting that money in the hands of middle class individuals would.

Quote:
Also, stock buy backs were hitting records ever since the recession year after year - yet they were never mentioned until the tax cut. Any reason as to why this was also happening? Have anything to do with zero to near zero interest rates? Why was this never widely reported in the media? These stock buy backs are not a new thing. I'm also positive there are companies out there that used the tax cut to create jobs which to me would be a net positive of the tax cut and make it worth it.

Stock buybacks have been increasing for some time, but they shot up precipitously after the tax cuts. Over the last 35 years, as companies accrued increasing amounts of disposable income, stock buybacks increased, so it's no surprise that a sudden infusion of disposable income would result in companies using even more of their profits to buy back stock. Some companies certainly made investments and hired workers, but an outsized share of the tax savings by US corporations went to stock buybacks... again, something many CEO's said would happen before the tax cuts went into effect.

Quote:
This is why I said they don't pay stuff with corporate taxes..heavily implying that GST/VATs and high marginal tax rates on individuals are how its done. There's a good reason why they don't have high corporate tax rates and why some of those countries actually rate higher on the business friendliness rankings than the US.

There's also a reason why corporate taxes as a percentage of GDP for OECD nations is higher on average than that of the US. You mentioned Nordic countries. The same holds true... even accounting for their higher personal income taxes and VATs. Again, you have to account for more in their tax structures than just the marginal tax rates. Yeah, Norway's corporate taxes seem low until you take into account that companies can pay as much as 65% in taxes to extract oil. That doesn't show up as part of that low corporate marginal tax rate that people like to boast about.
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Old 08-29-2019, 03:52 AM   #130
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Default Re: Trump going full Hitler

muslims loved hitler.... they still do






mein kampf still a bestseller in muslim countries
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Old 08-29-2019, 05:28 AM   #131
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Default Re: Trump going full Hitler

Man, i didnt knowmy ancestors marched thousands of miles to be murderer, same with the Jews.

And all voluntarily.



God damn moron
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Old 08-30-2019, 03:14 AM   #132
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Default Re: Trump going full Hitler

And then there's this...

Quote:
Trump Admin Abruptly Changes Policy Protecting Ill Migrants From Deportation

The Trump administration abruptly changed its program for granting medical deferral requests to undocumented immigrants this month, sending letters to several families rejecting their requests.

The letters from the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services agency informed families that USCIS would no longer consider their requests for medical deferral, which protected seriously ill undocumented immigrants from deportation while undergoing treatment in the U.S.

The letters warned that the families will be deported if they don’t leave the country within 33 days.

A USCIS spokesperson told TPM via email that the Immigrations and Customs Enforcement agency is now overseeing the requests, effective August 7.

“Deferred action does not provide lawful immigration status, and it does not excuse any periods of unlawful presence before or after the deferred action period,” the spokesperson said. “Deferred action can be terminated at any time at the agency’s discretion.”

However, the letters to families did not inform them of that change, and it’s not clear that ICE will accept deferral requests at the same rate. Several requests from families with sick kids have already been denied after the new policy was enacted.

The medical deferred action program allowed undocumented immigrants with severe illness such as cancer and HIV to stay in the U.S. for two years. Many of the program’s beneficiaries are children, several of whom come from countries with inadequate health care services.

That seems pretty heartless.
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Old 08-31-2019, 01:02 PM   #133
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Default Re: Trump going full Hitler

Quote:
Originally Posted by RRR3
Trump literally has concentration camps rn and is now trying to spread disease as a means of killing off the people in those camps. Sounds like Hitler to me.
Are you trolling or are you genuinely this gullible and ignorant ?
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