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Old 09-10-2008, 10:33 PM   #31
akdanny29
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Default Re: The Best Players in the NBA: A Year-by-Year Analysis

Nice post, nice to see someone do their research.
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Old 09-10-2008, 10:35 PM   #32
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Default Re: The Best Players in the NBA: A Year-by-Year Analysis

There is no way Dwayne Wade isn't the best player of 05/06. He was a top 5 player all year in the regular season and was by far the best player in the playoffs that included one of the most statistically impressive finals performances of all time.
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Old 09-10-2008, 10:46 PM   #33
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Default Re: The Best Players in the NBA: A Year-by-Year Analysis

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Originally Posted by miles berg
I agree. Seriously though, Dirk was top 3 in 2005 and 2006, over KG in 2005 and over LeBron in 2006.


Great list though, a terrific thread and very well thought out.

Both are very arguable and Dirk comes close to making Top 3 in both 05 and 06.

In 2005 Kevin Garnett led the league in PER. Therefore he arguably had the best individual statistics in the league, better than Nowitzki. Furthermore, PER doesn't factor in individual defense which would give KG further advantage. Now I know the Timberwolves did not make the playoffs in 2005, however they were still very competitive finishing 44-38. Remember, this was just 1 year removed from a 2004 KG who was considered the best in the game. Precedence is factored in my analysis. Lastly, Dirk's last shot at being called Top 3 was blown away in the playoffs as he struggled. He shot a dismissible 40% from the field resulting in a 2nd round exit.

In 2006 LeBron was widely considered the 2nd best player in the league after Kobe Bryant. Nowitzki had a shot to be ranked over Wade (who was considered inferior to LBJ) however Wade outplayed him in the NBA Finals. I admit it is very close, however LBJ had the slight statistical advantage and in the playoffs neither of them played better than the other.
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Old 09-10-2008, 10:48 PM   #34
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Default Re: The Best Players in the NBA: A Year-by-Year Analysis

Wade was the best player in 2006, and you have put Duncan at the number 1 spot far too many times. Shaq should be there over him at least twice.

Other then that, nice list.
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Old 09-10-2008, 11:09 PM   #35
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Default Re: The Best Players in the NBA: A Year-by-Year Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psileas
I clearly sense a double-standard for the Wilt-Russell comparison compared to later similar comparisons. In 4 seperate cases (1960, 1961, 1963, 1965), you ranked Russell over Wilt, probably based on the better team record and the longer playoff run, but then you don't do the same for Kareem-Walton in 1977 or Jordan-Magic in 1988 or 1989 (I may give you 1989, because Magic missed the finals, although I'll still rank his season over Jordan's, since he won 10 games more, with Kareem on his last feet, his stats were pretty close, won the MVP and had an 11-0 vs 9-8 record through the first 3 rounds of the playoffs).

Actually it wasn't just based on better team record and longer playoff runs. Playoff performances was very important in these cases. If you overlook them it may seem as though if there was a double standard. I have cited many of Russell's playoff performances in those years and you yourself probably know of many others, therefore I will not spend time talking about them. Also based on many of the older NBA Fans I asked also agreed that Russell and Wilt were really close every year. In fact in 1981, Russell was voted as the GOAT not Wilt.

Let's look at Kareem vs. Walton in 1977, and then Jordan in 88 and 89.

Kareem 1977 Playoffs:

34.6ppg
17.7rpg
60.7% FG
4.1apg

Though Kareem's playoff run wasn't as long as Walton's, it certainly wasn't his fault. He won the MVP in 1977 (easily) while playing better than anyone in the league in the playoffs. It was quite obvious he was the best player using the same standard that kept Russell at the top (Playoff Performances). Remember that playoff performances of the players speak more than how well their teams played.

In 1988 Michael Jordan won the NBA MVP. Which player won MVP is factored in when I do my analysis (Though it is not all I look at obviously). And in the playoffs no one could blame Jordan for not keeping up or continuing to play well in the playoffs. He played even better in the playoffs before falling down to the eventual Eastern Conference Champions. Magic on the other hand if he had won the Finals MVP he still might have been over Jordan, however it was apparent Magic Johnson got a lot of help (James Worthy Finals MVP) as they were barely able to defeat the Detroit Pistons.


In 89 Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan both lost to the same opponent in the playoffs. Difference was Magic was swept while Jordan took the series to 6 games. Furthermore, Magic's level of play dropped in the playoffs, while Jordan's either stayed the same or was higher. Once again it comes down to how well the players played in the playoffs.

Quote:
Nice to think about the Doctor in 1976 (GOAT ABA individual season), but it's still tough to compare an ABA to an NBA season. By the way, the Lakers should make the playoffs in 1976. Why didn't they? Blame it on the stupid system of the day, which required at least 2 teams from each division to advance to the playoffs, regardless of their records. This resulted in 2 of the 5 Western teams that made the playoffs having actually a worse record than the, also Western, Lakers...

Yes Dr.J was amazing in 1976, and I didn't know about the playoff system in 76.
Quote:
Here's my personal list. Every season has two winners. The first is the player who I believe dominated more in the season (regardless of how well his team did) and the other is the player who achieved the better combination of individual dominance-team success. It doesn't nessesarily mean that he has to be the champion, but he has to play at least 1 playoff round less than the champion (or 0, i.e, be the finalist). I included only NBA seasons:

1947: Fulks-Fulks
1948: Fulks-Fulks
1949: Mikan-Mikan
1950: Mikan-Mikan
1951: Mikan-Mikan
1952: Mikan-Mikan
1953: Mikan-Mikan
1954: Mikan-Mikan
1955: Johnston-Schayes
1956: Pettit-Arizin
1957: Pettit-Pettit
1958: Russell-Pettit
1959: Russell-Russell
1960: Chamberlain-Chamberlain
1961: Chamberlain-Russell/Baylor
1962: Chamberlain-Chamberlain/Russell
1963: Chamberlain-Baylor
1964: Chamberlain-Chamberlain
1965: Chamberlain-Chamberlain/West
1966: Chamberlain-Russell
1967: Chamberlain-Chamberlain
1968: Chamberlain-Chamberlain
1969: Chamberlain-West
1970: Abdul-Jabbar-Reed
1971: Abdul-Jabbar-Abdul-Jabbar
1972: Abdul-Jabbar-Abdul-Jabbar
1973: Abdul-Jabbar-Havlicek
1974: Abdul-Jabbar-Abdul-Jabbar
1975: Abdul-Jabbar-Barry
1976: Abdul-Jabbar-Cowens
1977: Abdul-Jabbar-Abdul-Jabbar/Walton
1978: Abdul-Jabbar-Hayes
1979: Abdul-Jabbar-Abdul-Jabbar
1980: Abdul-Jabbar/M.Malone-Abdul-Jabbar
1981: M.Malone-M.Malone
1982: M.Malone-Magic
1983: M.Malone-M.Malone
1984: Bird-Bird
1985: Bird-Bird/Magic
1986: Bird-Bird
1987: Magic-Magic
1988: Jordan-Magic
1989: Magic/Jordan-Magic
1990: Jordan-Jordan
1991: Jordan-Jordan
1992: Jordan-Jordan
1993: Jordan-Jordan
1994: Olajuwon-Olajuwon
1995: Olajuwon/Robinson-Olajuwon
1996: Jordan-Jordan
1997: Jordan-Jordan
1998: K.Malone-Jordan
1999: S.O'Neal-Duncan
2000: S.O'Neal-S.O'Neal
2001: S.O'Neal-S.O'Neal
2002: S.O'Neal-S.O'Neal
2003: Duncan-Duncan
2004: S.O'Neal/Duncan-S.O'Neal
2005: S.O'Neal-Duncan
2006: Bryant/James-Wade
2007: Bryant-James
2008: James/Bryant-Bryant

Interesting list. The best player is probably somewhere between your left and right side. There is though a correlation between your list and mine if you skim it quickly.
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Old 09-10-2008, 11:16 PM   #36
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Default Re: The Best Players in the NBA: A Year-by-Year Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gifted Mind
Both are very arguable and Dirk comes close to making Top 3 in both 05 and 06.

In 2005 Kevin Garnett led the league in PER. Therefore he arguably had the best individual statistics in the league, better than Nowitzki. Furthermore, PER doesn't factor in individual defense which would give KG further advantage. Now I know the Timberwolves did not make the playoffs in 2005, however they were still very competitive finishing 44-38. Remember, this was just 1 year removed from a 2004 KG who was considered the best in the game. Precedence is factored in my analysis. Lastly, Dirk's last shot at being called Top 3 was blown away in the playoffs as he struggled. He shot a dismissible 40% from the field resulting in a 2nd round exit.

In 2006 LeBron was widely considered the 2nd best player in the league after Kobe Bryant. Nowitzki had a shot to be ranked over Wade (who was considered inferior to LBJ) however Wade outplayed him in the NBA Finals. I admit it is very close, however LBJ had the slight statistical advantage and in the playoffs neither of them played better than the other.


Are you kidding me? Wade was clear cut the best player in 06. He had one of the greatest (if not greatest as said by ESPN) playoff performance ever.

Dirk should also be there over LBJ. Led his team to 60 wins that season and he doesn't get a place on the list? If you are going by statistics, then like I said, Shaq should be number 1 on your list from 2000-2006.
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Old 09-10-2008, 11:21 PM   #37
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Default Re: The Best Players in the NBA: A Year-by-Year Analysis

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Originally Posted by Godfather
There is no way Dwayne Wade isn't the best player of 05/06. He was a top 5 player all year in the regular season and was by far the best player in the playoffs that included one of the most statistically impressive finals performances of all time.

At the end of the regular season I don't believe anyone in the league considered Wade the best player in the NBA. He finished at All-NBA 2nd and did not receive 1 1st in place MVP vote. He had a better supporting cast than Kobe or LBJ in the playoffs which lead to different expectations and results. Nonetheless, he was still very impressive in the playoffs, impressive enough to be called Top 3. However, if you look at all the other "Best Players Season by Season", you will notice that all of them before the playoffs had at least a small case for best player already. None of them were All-NBA 2nd and had no MVP 1st place votes. If I put Wade at number one I would be breaking standards and heavily weighing playoff performances.
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Old 09-10-2008, 11:24 PM   #38
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Default Re: The Best Players in the NBA: A Year-by-Year Analysis

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Originally Posted by plowking
Are you kidding me? Wade was clear cut the best player in 06. He had one of the greatest (if not greatest as said by ESPN) playoff performance ever.

Dirk should also be there over LBJ. Led his team to 60 wins that season and he doesn't get a place on the list? If you are going by statistics, then like I said, Shaq should be number 1 on your list from 2000-2006.

I think you are gravely mistaken. O'Neal did not have the best numbers from 00 to 06 and it's ludicrous to think otherwise.

Once again, Wade was All-NBA 2nd and did not receive 1 NBA MVP vote. No other player from 1950 to 2008 had a regular season profile that low and still managed to be called the best player in the NBA.
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Old 09-10-2008, 11:27 PM   #39
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Default Re: The Best Players in the NBA: A Year-by-Year Analysis

It's quite amusing how I'm going to go back and forth arguing against fans of one side and than the exact opposite. For example, first I was arguing for Magic in the Magic vs. Jordan debate, and then I was arguing for Jordan.

I guess this is how it turns out.
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Old 09-10-2008, 11:28 PM   #40
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Default Re: The Best Players in the NBA: A Year-by-Year Analysis

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Originally Posted by Gifted Mind
I think you are gravely mistaken. O'Neal did not have the best numbers from 00 to 06 and it's ludicrous to think otherwise.

Once again, Wade was All-NBA 2nd and did not receive 1 NBA MVP vote. No other player from 1950 to 2008 had a regular season profile that low and still managed to be called the best player in the NBA.

What Wade did not fall within the norm, so he should be penalized for it? All I am saying is Wade played 23 games in the playoffs, and after those 23 games there was no doubt in anyone's mind he was the best player in the world.
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Old 09-10-2008, 11:31 PM   #41
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Default Re: The Best Players in the NBA: A Year-by-Year Analysis

Shaq should be best player in 05. And although I see nothing wrong with putting Duncan and KG over Shaq in 03 and 04, even at that time, I don't think there was any player more dominant and a team was more scared to go up against then Shaq. So in that case, he might be no. 1 for those years too. However, thats when he really got into the whole "turn it on when I need to" mode, which ultimately means I would agree with you on those years. But Shaq should be best player in 05.
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Old 09-10-2008, 11:33 PM   #42
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Default Re: The Best Players in the NBA: A Year-by-Year Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godfather
What Wade did not fall within the norm, so he should be penalized for it? All I am saying is Wade played 23 games in the playoffs, and after those 23 games there was no doubt in anyone's mind he was the best player in the world.

It's not a penalty, it got him to be called Top 3. And I don't want to have double standards in my analysis which would become the case if I listed Wade as the best player in the NBA in 2006. Once again, Wade was in a different team situation from Kobe or LBJ, therefore we all should have had different expectations and seen different results. His 2006 campaign was still exceptional.

Lastly, I don't think even most NBA Fans considered Wade better than Kobe or LBJ even after the playoffs.
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Old 09-10-2008, 11:36 PM   #43
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Default Re: The Best Players in the NBA: A Year-by-Year Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by guy
Shaq should be best player in 05. And although I see nothing wrong with putting Duncan and KG over Shaq in 03 and 04, even at that time, I don't think there was any player more dominant and a team was more scared to go up against then Shaq. So in that case, he might be no. 1 for those years too. However, thats when he really got into the whole "turn it on when I need to" mode, which ultimately means I would agree with you on those years. But Shaq should be best player in 05.


Unfortunately by age 32 O'Neal was not as dominant as he used to be. Even in the playoffs he averaged just 19ppg/8rpg. Which by no means you should expect from the best player in the game. Tim Duncan on the other hand led his team to the NBA title in 2005 past the team that eliminated O'Neal, while Garnett was nearly as good as he was in 2004 where he was considered the best in the game.
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Old 09-10-2008, 11:38 PM   #44
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Default Re: The Best Players in the NBA: A Year-by-Year Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gifted Mind
It's not a penalty, it got him to be called Top 3. And I don't want to have double standards in my analysis which would become the case if I listed Wade as the best player in the NBA in 2006. Once again, Wade was in a different team situation from Kobe or LBJ, therefore we all should have had different expectations and seen different results. His 2006 campaign was still exceptional.

Lastly, I don't think even most NBA Fans considered Wade better than Kobe or LBJ even after the playoffs.

So because he was on a better team, he can't be considered the better player?
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Old 09-10-2008, 11:41 PM   #45
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Default Re: The Best Players in the NBA: A Year-by-Year Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by plowking
So because he was on a better team, he can't be considered the better player?

No because he was on a considerably better team we can't directly compare their teams' success in the playoffs. But that's just a small argument and not the main reason why he wasn't the best because regardless he played exceptionally well in the playoffs.

I've already stated why he wasn't the best earlier. (All-NBA 2nd/0 1st MVP votes). He simply wasn't a valid choice to be called the best after the regular season.
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