Why 60's and 70's players "can't dribble/handle"

[CavaliersFTW]

...and also why modern players from the modern era can't just go back in time and automatically "dominate" like most young fans assume. Kobe or Lebron can't go play in the 60's and move around the floor with the freedoms they have today w/o having a sh*t load of dribbling and ball handling turnovers. They might even need a dribbling coach for whatever amount of time to help them crack the habit and dependency on palming. This call if ever called today would baffle both players and fans because it stopped being enforced gradually from the 1960's til present despite it (AFAIK) still being in the rule book. A typical AI or Kobe ISO play is heavily dependent on a lot of palming. Heck, most of the time Kevin Durant can't even bring the ball up the court without palming. This rule isn't BS that oldschool fans make up to prop up or make excuses for old players, it really did exist:

http://youtu.be/PDRQ0FYhC0U

[TheBigVeto]

...and also why modern players from the modern era can't just go back in time and automatically "dominate" like most young fans assume. Kobe or Lebron can't go play in the 60's and move around the floor with the freedoms they have today w/o having a sh*t load of dribbling and ball handling turnovers. They might even need a dribbling coach for whatever amount of time to help them crack the habit and dependency on palming. This call if ever called today would baffle both players and fans because it stopped being enforced gradually from the 1960's til present despite it (AFAIK) still being in the rule book. A typical AI or Kobe ISO play is heavily dependent on a lot of palming. Kevin Durant can't even bring the ball up the court without palming. This rule isn't BS that oldschool fans make up to prop up or make excuses for old players, it really did exist:

http://youtu.be/PDRQ0FYhC0U

If modern players go back in time they won't get the ball across the midcourt because they'll be whistled for palming every time.

[tmacattack33]

Maybe. But use a better video.

In that video, the ball is on the other side of the guy. I can't even see what happened.

[kennethgriffin]

this is such bullsh*t


kobe gets called for palming every game it seems. the refs hate the guy and he still does his thing


and that looked like a self pass, ofcourse it was called. west should be ashamed for even trying something that dumb


and ontop of it we have no clear angle of his hand and its position on the ball


sure they get away with more these days. but kobe in the 60's would average 15rpg and drop 40 every night


6-5 elgin baylor with similar athleticism averaged nearly 20rpg in his prime

[CavaliersFTW]

Maybe. But use a better video.

In that video, the ball is on the other side of the guy. I can't even see what happened.

Yah, that camera angle isn't the greatest sorry, next time I'm watching a vintage game and I see the call again I will.

[CavaliersFTW]

this is such bullsh*t


kobe gets called for palming every game it seems. the refs hate the guy and he still does his thing


and that looked like a self pass, ofcourse it was called. west should be ashamed for even trying something that dumb


and ontop of it we have no clear angle of his hand and its position on the ball


sure they get away with more these days. but kobe in the 60's would average 15rpg and drop 40 every night


6-5 elgin baylor with similar athleticism averaged nearly 20rpg in his prime

your only mad because I used Kobe as an example. If I had only thrown exclusively Lebron under the bus I bet you would have jumped on him about it but the fact is every player commits old school palming violations in today's game including Kobe. It's just part of how the game evolved.

[kennethgriffin]

your only mad because I used Kobe as an example. If I had only thrown exclusively Lebron under the bus I bet you would have jumped on him about it but the fact is every player commits old school palming violations in today's game including Kobe. It's just part of how the game evolved.

saying kobe cant go back and drop way bigger lines and "it would be harder for him" is basically saying wilt could average 50 and dropping 100 in todays game or maybe do better

people give less credit to numbers/achivements back in the day for a reason.

players evolve. the game evolves

to think someone like kobe couldnt take what he knows into the past and dominate is a slap in the face to evolution

that being said... i rank players based on their impact in "their" era. it makes no sense to compare 1 guys stats to anothers in a different era. its how good you were compared to the guys you faced that matters

[CavaliersFTW]

saying kobe cant go back and drop way bigger lines and "it would be harder for him" is basically saying wilt could average 50 and dropping 100 in todays game or maybe do better

people give less credit to numbers/achivements back in the day for a reason.

players evolve. the game evolves

to think someone like kobe couldnt take what he knows into the past and dominate is a slap in the face to evolution

I never said Kobe couldn't be elite back then - I only said he couldn't just be plucked from todays game and put into a game back then and automatically dominate. He'd either make the adjustment and start dribbling like Jerry West or Elgin Baylor or get whistled right out of a game. I actually think he'd be one of the better players to transition because he studies oldschool players and he'd probably pick up on the rule after the very first few whistles and I can see him above most players being focused and disciplined enough to resist the urge to palm relatively quickly. But it'd likely take him at least several weeks to get fully comfortable with it. Other players who don't study oldschool ball like Wisebe would have a more difficult time adjusting. Lanky players that are tall enough to be centers like Kevin Durant or Kevin Garnett would probably have an especially hard time controlling the ball without the aid of using the sides of their hands anymore for stability.

If you can't tolerate the fact the Kobe would need to make adjustments to his game before he'd be able to start putting up numbers back then than I dunno what to tell you. All I'm sayin is he wouldn't be doing modern looking moves, and he'd be forced to play by the 60's rules. That means no "sick crossovers". I'm not saying old school is better, I'm just pointing out what makes a key difference in their ball handling that most modern fans are 100% oblivious too. The "evolution" of the game isn't a one way street. Some things have been added to the game but some things have also been taken away, including rules that used to make the game look less pretty. Old school players didn't have the same freedom to show off "handles" like modern players do.

[fpliii]

saying kobe cant go back and drop way bigger lines and "it would be harder for him" is basically saying wilt could average 50 and dropping 100 in todays game or maybe do better

people give less credit to numbers/achivements back in the day for a reason.

players evolve. the game evolves

to think someone like kobe couldnt take what he knows into the past and dominate is a slap in the face to evolution

that being said... i rank players based on their impact in "their" era. it makes no sense to compare 1 guys stats to anothers in a different era. its how good you were compared to the guys you faced that matters

griff - I thought you said we should rank players based on public perception (not just NBA fans)?

[Poetry]

My boy Stock would need to adjust his game too, he was notorious for palming.

[kennethgriffin]

griff - I thought you said we should rank players based on public perception (not just NBA fans)?

no i said public perception aka majority opinion world wide is what makes jordan the GOAT and it has nothing to do with any message board basketball nerds opinion

i'm not saying i rank my guys based on that criteria. i'm just saying its what the world goes by. and they outnumber us 4 billion to a few hundred on ISH

i dont agree with people ranking the top 5 players ever as

#1 jordan
#2 Kobe
#3 Magic
#4 Bird
#5 Wilt

but you know what. i don't mind people saying it either. looks better than my list where i have kobe ranked 6th

[kennethgriffin]

I never said Kobe couldn't be elite back then - I only said he couldn't just be plucked from todays game and put into a game back then and automatically dominate. He'd either make the adjustment and start dribbling like Jerry West or Elgin Baylor or get whistled right out of a game. I actually think he'd be one of the better players to transition because he studies oldschool players and he'd probably pick up on the rule after the very first few whistles and I can see him above most players being focused and disciplined enough to resist the urge to palm relatively quickly. But it'd likely take him at least several weeks to get fully comfortable with it. Other players who don't study oldschool ball like Wisebe would have a more difficult time adjusting. Lanky players that are tall enough to be centers like Kevin Durant or Kevin Garnett would probably have an especially hard time controlling the ball without the aid of using the sides of their hands anymore for stability.

If you can't tolerate the fact the Kobe would need to make adjustments to his game before he'd be able to start putting up numbers back then than I dunno what to tell you. All I'm sayin is he wouldn't be doing modern looking moves, and he'd be forced to play by the 60's rules. That means no "sick crossovers". I'm not saying old school is better, I'm just pointing out what makes a key difference in their ball handling that most modern fans are 100% oblivious too. The "evolution" of the game isn't a one way street. Some things have been added to the game but some things have also been taken away, including rules that used to make the game look less pretty. Old school players didn't have the same freedom to show off "handles" like modern players do.

even if you were even 1% correct. which you're not

kobe wouldnt even go back in time and be the guy dribbling around like jerry west

kobe would be a SF/PF in the 50's/60's

and his entire game would be backing people down on the post or 1 dribble moves from a face up position

kobes footwork is one of the best in the league and it hasnt changed one bit in terms of 60's to today. so YES. you could pick kobe directly out of todays nba and put him in that era and he would OBLITERATE the competition


if you wanted to pick a better guy as an example you should have used an allen iverson type of player

[fpliii]

no i said public perception aka majority opinion world wide is what makes jordan the GOAT and it has nothing to do with any message board basketball nerds opinion

i'm not saying i rank my guys based on that criteria. i'm just saying its what the world goes by. and they outnumber us 4 billion to a few hundred on ISH

i dont agree with people ranking the top 5 players ever as

#1 jordan
#2 Kobe
#3 Magic
#4 Bird
#5 Wilt

but you know what. i don't mind people saying it either. looks better than my list where i have kobe ranked 6th

what if my top 5 is:

Russell
Magic
Wilt
Kareem
Kobe

?

do you think that's realistic, or are my criteria flawed?

[CavaliersFTW]

even if you were even 1% correct. which you're not

kobe wouldnt even go back in time and be the guy dribbling around like jerry west

kobe would be a SF/PF in the 50's/60's

and his entire game would be backing people down on the post or 1 dribble moves from a face up position

kobes footwork is one of the best in the league and it hasnt changed one bit in terms of 60's to today. so YES. you could pick kobe directly out of todays nba and put him in that era and he would OBLITERATE the competition


if you wanted to pick a better guy as an example you should have used an allen iverson type of player

Kobe a power forward in the 60's?



Kobe would get buttraped trying to back down Nate Thurmond, Bob Pettit or Luke Jackson... like it would be a joke, are u f*cking serious dude?

[fpliii]

Kobe a power forward in the 60's?



Kobe would get buttraped trying to back down Nate Thurmond, Bob Pettit or Luke Jackson... like it would be a joke, are u f*cking serious dude?

we need the obligatory Nate pic with veins popping out on top off veins

mean looking man right there