Is winning a championship with 0 All-star and 0 All-nba teammates the hardest accom..

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Hakeem in '94 is probably the only player to win a title without an all-star caliber performer in the playoffs

In '94, Hakeem had Thorpe putting up 14/10/2/1 on on 59% TS and Maxwell putting up 13/3/5/2 on 48% TS. Not to mention Horry putting up 10/5/3/1/1 on 52% TS, Smith putting up 11/2/4/1 on 58% TS, Jent putting up 10/5/2 on 57% and Elie with 9/2/3 on 57% TS.

Otoh, Duncan in '99 had Robinson putting up 16/10/2/1/2 on 56% TS and Elliot putting up 11/4/2 on 49% TS. Then Avery putting up 9.7/2/7/1 on 48% TS and Elie putting up 9.7/3/2/1 on 59% TS. No one else scored even 9 PPG after that, with the next person scoring 6 PPG. So while Duncan may have been a little better help than Hakeem's second option, the rest of Duncan's help was not even close.

Or how about Duncan's cast in '03? Parker 15/2/5/1 on 54% TS, Jackson 12/3/2/1 on 52% TS, Rose 10/6/1 on 54% TS. No one else scored even 9 PPG after that. So again, Duncan has a few decent helpers, but the depth is non-existent and there has been MUCH better 2nd and 3rd options clearly throughout NBA's long history.

Also, Duncan has won 4 NBA titles without another All-NBA teammate, which is the most by far of any ATG or GOAT candidate. He also won 2 NBA titles without another All-Star teammate. So 4 without another All-NBA and 2 without another All-Star. Just goes to show that Duncan won with less help of any ATG to ever play the game.

GOAT gonna GOAT.

[Dray n Klay]

Yea, nice one Duncan vampires



Except it doesn't count since Duncan was only the best finals performer in 2 out of his 5 championships. (1999, 2003)




That means you can't use the "no all NBA players and no all star teammates arguments".




In 3/5 of Duncans championships, he wasn't the best finals performer, that tells us that Duncan was outplayed by his own teammates.





By saying that Duncan didn't have another All NBA or All Star on his roster, you're basically saying that Duncan <<< a non-all star since Duncan was outplayed by his own teammates







In conclusion: Saying Player X won with 0 all stars and 0 all NBA players is only valid if that player was the clear cut best performer on the team, or else you're indirectly saying Player X is worse that a non-all star player






Therefore Duncan doesn't count

[Sarcastic]

In '94, Hakeem had Thorpe putting up 14/10/2/1 on on 59% TS and Maxwell putting up 13/3/5/2 on 48% TS. Not to mention Horry putting up 10/5/3/1/1 on 52% TS, Smith putting up 11/2/4/1 on 58% TS, Jent putting up 10/5/2 on 57% and Elie with 9/2/3 on 57% TS.

Otoh, Duncan in '99 had Robinson putting up 16/10/2/1/2 on 56% TS and Elliot putting up 11/4/2 on 49% TS. Then Avery putting up 9.7/2/7/1 on 48% TS and Elie putting up 9.7/3/2/1 on 59% TS. No one else scored even 9 PPG after that, with the next person scoring 6 PPG. So while Duncan may have been a little better help than Hakeem's second option, the rest of Duncan's help was not even close.

Or how about Duncan's cast in '03? Parker 15/2/5/1 on 54% TS, Jackson 12/3/2/1 on 52% TS, Rose 10/6/1 on 54% TS. No one else scored even 9 PPG after that. So again, Duncan has a few decent helpers, but the depth is non-existent and there has been MUCH better 2nd and 3rd options clearly throughout NBA's long history.

Also, Duncan has won 4 NBA titles without another All-NBA teammate, which is the most by far of any ATG or GOAT candidate. He also won 2 NBA titles without another All-Star teammate. So 4 without another All-NBA and 2 without another All-Star. Just goes to show that Duncan won with less help of any ATG to ever play the game.

GOAT gonna GOAT.

Robinson/Elliott are like 100x better than Thorpe/Maxwell

This is a case of stats not telling the whole story.

[GrapeApe]

In '94, Hakeem had Thorpe putting up 14/10/2/1 on on 59% TS and Maxwell putting up 13/3/5/2 on 48% TS. Not to mention Horry putting up 10/5/3/1/1 on 52% TS, Smith putting up 11/2/4/1 on 58% TS, Jent putting up 10/5/2 on 57% and Elie with 9/2/3 on 57% TS.

Otoh, Duncan in '99 had Robinson putting up 16/10/2/1/2 on 56% TS and Elliot putting up 11/4/2 on 49% TS. Then Avery putting up 9.7/2/7/1 on 48% TS and Elie putting up 9.7/3/2/1 on 59% TS. No one else scored even 9 PPG after that, with the next person scoring 6 PPG. So while Duncan may have been a little better help than Hakeem's second option, the rest of Duncan's help was not even close.

Or how about Duncan's cast in '03? Parker 15/2/5/1 on 54% TS, Jackson 12/3/2/1 on 52% TS, Rose 10/6/1 on 54% TS. No one else scored even 9 PPG after that. So again, Duncan has a few decent helpers, but the depth is non-existent and there has been MUCH better 2nd and 3rd options clearly throughout NBA's long history.

Also, Duncan has won 4 NBA titles without another All-NBA teammate, which is the most by far of any ATG or GOAT candidate. He also won 2 NBA titles without another All-Star teammate. So 4 without another All-NBA and 2 without another All-Star. Just goes to show that Duncan won with less help of any ATG to ever play the game.

GOAT gonna GOAT.

In regards to '94 Hakeem, did you even read what I said? You basically proved my point. None of Hakeem's teammates put up all-star numbers individually, but collectively they were a solid supporting cast.

I did forget about '03 Duncan though. He obviously didn't do it alone, but that was an all-time great championship run, easily Duncan's most impressive. I wouldn't put '99, '05, or '07 in that same category. Those titles were won with HOF teammates who were playing at a high level.

[K.dot ShowTime]

Winning a championship with 1 Adam Silver is the worst accomplishment. But what else you can expect from LeCollude.

[DCL]

the all star game is kinda bullshit.

there are always plenty of non-all star players every year who are better than the actual participants.

if you need the all-star game to tell you who has game or who doesn't, you don't know basketball, you don't know what to watch, and you have no frigging idea what's going on.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

In regards to '94 Hakeem, did you even read what I said? You basically proved my point. None of Hakeem's teammates put up all-star numbers individually, but collectively they were a solid supporting cast.

I did forget about '03 Duncan though. He obviously didn't do it alone, but that was an all-time great championship run, easily Duncan's most impressive. I wouldn't put '99, '05, or '07 in that same category. Those titles were won with HOF teammates who were playing at a high level.

HOF teammates playing at high level? Robinson's 16/10/2/1/2 on 56% TS vs. Thorpe's 14/10/2/1 on on 59% TS is pretty close and the rest of their casts are not close at all with Hakeem having a huge edge there. If anything, the '99 ring is even more impressive than the '03 one given just how little help he had. I mean, Hakeem had 6 teammates putting up 9+ PPG on superior efficiency vs. Duncan's having 4. C'mon now. I couldn't even do 10+ PPG because Duncan's supporting cast was so bad, I had to roll with 9+ PPG.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Robinson/Elliott are like 100x better than Thorpe/Maxwell

This is a case of stats not telling the whole story.

Did you even read the rest? Hakeem had 6 teammates putting up 9+ PPG on superior efficiency while Duncan only had 4. I had to roll with 9+ PPG instead of 10 because Duncan had such a shitty supporting cast.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

[I]Except it doesn't count since Duncan was only the best finals performer in 2 out of his 5 championships. (1999, 2003)


That means you can't use the "no all NBA players and no all star teammates arguments".




In 3/5 of Duncans championships, he wasn't the best finals performer, that tells us that [U]Duncan was outplayed by his own teammates.

Duncan was clearly the best player on 4 of his championships and very arguably the best player on all 5. He was also the best player on the 2013 team which came within 1 game of winning it all and would have if it weren't for missed FT's, rebounds, Pop benching the all time leading play off defensive rebounder with 28 seconds left.

Duncan doesn't statpad in the finals like someone else, but even still, he was clearly the best player on at least 3 of the finals and arguably on 4-5 (PPG isn't everything, especially against garbage guards).

Either way, 5 > 3 and 5/6 > 3/7. GOAT gonna GOAT. Deal with it.

[rmt]

Yea, nice one Duncan vampires

Except it doesn't count since Duncan was only the best finals performer in 2 out of his 5 championships. (1999, 2003)

That means you can't use the "no all NBA players and no all star teammates arguments".

In 3/5 of Duncans championships, he wasn't the best finals performer, that tells us that Duncan was outplayed by his own teammates.

By saying that Duncan didn't have another All NBA or All Star on his roster, you're basically saying that Duncan <<< a non-all star since Duncan was outplayed by his own teammates

In conclusion: Saying Player X won with 0 all stars and 0 all NBA players is only valid if that player was the clear cut best performer on the team, or else you're indirectly saying Player X is worse that a non-all star player

Therefore Duncan doesn't count

All-NBA and All-Star are based on the regular season - not on Finals MVP. Here are the stats/accolades that clearly prove that Duncan was the best player in 2005 and 2007 - both regular seasons and playoffs.


2004-05 Regular Season
Duncan 20.3 pts 11.1 rebs 2.7 asst 2.6 blk 49.6 FG% - 1st All-NBA, 1st All-Defensive, All-Star
Manu 16 pts 4.4 rebs 3.9 asst 1.6 stl 47.1 FG% - All-Star

2005 Playoffs
Duncan 23.6 pts 12.4 rebs 2.7 asst 2.3 blk 46.4 FG%
Manu 20.8 pts 5.8 rebs 4.2 asst 1.2 stl 50.7 FG%


2006-07 Regular Season
Duncan 20 pts 10.6 rebs 3.4 asst 2.4 blk 54.6 FG% - 1st All-NBA, 1st All-Defensive, All-Star
Parker 18.6 pts 5.5 asst 1.1 stl 52 FG% - All-Star

2007 Playoffs
Duncan 22.2 pts 11.5 rebs 3.3 asst 3.1 blk 52.1 FG%
Parker 20.8 pts 5.8 asst 1.1 stl 48 FG%

[Spurs5Rings2014]

All-NBA and All-Star are based on the regular season - not on Finals MVP. Here are the stats/accolades that clearly prove that Duncan was the best player in 2005 and 2007 - both regular seasons and playoffs.


2004-05 Regular Season
Duncan 20.3 pts 11.1 rebs 2.7 asst 2.6 blk 49.6 FG% - 1st All-NBA, 1st All-Defensive, All-Star
Manu 16 pts 4.4 rebs 3.9 asst 1.6 stl 47.1 FG% - All-Star

2005 Playoffs
Duncan 23.6 pts 12.4 rebs 2.7 asst 2.3 blk 46.4 FG%
Manu 20.8 pts 5.8 rebs 4.2 asst 1.2 stl 50.7 FG%


2006-07 Regular Season
Duncan 20 pts 10.6 rebs 3.4 asst 2.4 blk 54.6 FG% - 1st All-NBA, 1st All-Defensive, All-Star
Parker 18.6 pts 5.5 asst 1.1 stl 52 FG% - All-Star

2007 Playoffs
Duncan 22.2 pts 11.5 rebs 3.3 asst 3.1 blk 52.1 FG%
Parker 20.8 pts 5.8 asst 1.1 stl 48 FG%

[Dray n Klay]

rmt is too shook to post finals stats



Reminds me of Kobe stans saying Kobe was the MVP of the REAL Finals (WCF)



Nice way of trying to spin Duncan as the best player, but no ones buying it







2/5 1st option rings confirmed

[rmt]

rmt is too shook to post finals stats

Reminds me of Kobe stans saying Kobe was the MVP of the REAL Finals (WCF)

Nice way of trying to spin Duncan as the best player, but no ones buying it

2/5 1st option rings confirmed

You are the one who is cherry picking 11 out of 207 games. The thread title says All-Star and All-NBA - not FMVP - in which case he has 3 FMVPs. And the REAL finals in 2007 were against the Suns (not CLE which was a given) where Duncan averaged:

26.8 pts 13.7 rebs 1.2 asst 4.2 blks 57.3 FG%

[Psileas]

In '94, Hakeem had Thorpe putting up 14/10/2/1 on on 59% TS and Maxwell putting up 13/3/5/2 on 48% TS. Not to mention Horry putting up 10/5/3/1/1 on 52% TS, Smith putting up 11/2/4/1 on 58% TS, Jent putting up 10/5/2 on 57% and Elie with 9/2/3 on 57% TS.

Otoh, Duncan in '99 had Robinson putting up 16/10/2/1/2 on 56% TS and Elliot putting up 11/4/2 on 49% TS. Then Avery putting up 9.7/2/7/1 on 48% TS and Elie putting up 9.7/3/2/1 on 59% TS. No one else scored even 9 PPG after that, with the next person scoring 6 PPG. So while Duncan may have been a little better help than Hakeem's second option, the rest of Duncan's help was not even close.

Since all your points for supporting casts are stats, how about taking it an obvious step further and compare Hakeem's and Duncan's to see who did the most himself?

Duncan: 23.2 ppg, 11.5 rpg, 2.8 apg, 2.6 bpg, 51.1% FG
Hakeem: 28.9 ppg, 11.0 rpg, 4.3 apg, 1.7 spg, 4.0 bpg, 51.9% FG

[I<3NBA]

Kyrie may have not been an all-star, but that's only because he missed a lot of games. otherwise, he would be in for sure.