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Old 06-15-2019, 08:54 PM   #61
3ball
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Default Re: LeBron is 2nd all-time in career PER. Anthony Davis is 3rd all-time. Best duo ever?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Feeny
His defense has fallen but hes still more efficient than that version of Kobe. I also dont think that he will hog the ball and have as high a usage rate this year with Davis there. I have no way of knowing that so we will wait and see. But I think you'll see a different version. Davis is an elite player and this might be the first time that Lebron has played with a better player. He wont mind deferring.
You don't seem to understand what usage is

Usage measures how often a player finished a possession - it simply measures shot attempts, FT's and turnovers - so JJ Redick could have the highest usage if he shot enough

And yes - the media ROUTINELY gets this wrong... Usage has nothing to do with how long a player has the ball (ball-domination)... Otoh, NBA.com tracks ball-domination with their time of possession stat, which measures how long a player has the ball in their hands each game.. the top 30 for time of possession are all PG's (except lebron) because they bring the ball up court and run time-consuming screen rolls.. predictably, harden led in 2019 with 9.5 minutes per game.. lebron has the all-time record with 12.2 minutes in the 15' Finals, and 11.0 minutes in 2018 Finals.

lebron's ball-domination will likely increase alongside AD because AD isn't a ball-dominator and needs someone like lebron to feed him - it's a perfect match.. With lebron's previous super-teams, chemistry suffered because he was redundant/alongside other ball-dominators like Wade, Kyrie, and also PG Chalmers, who had a PG-time of possession too

Essentially, lebron becomes a 2nd player on the floor with a PG-level time of possession, which reduced teammates' time and assists compared to their play in 1-point guard lineups... With teammates getting less assists, the TEAM ranks low in assists and employs a low ball-movement brand that struggles on the championship level

Ultimately, lebron's weaker championship record didn't reflect lack of personal or supporting talent, but an approach to the game that didn't yield the best offenses, brand of ball, and teams of his era...
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Old 06-15-2019, 08:54 PM   #62
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Default Re: LeBron is 2nd all-time in career PER. Anthony Davis is 3rd all-time. Best duo ever?

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Originally Posted by 3ball
You don't seem to understand what usage is

Usage measures how often a player finished a possession - it simply measures shot attempts, FT's and turnovers - so JJ Redick could have the highest usage if he shot enough

And yes - the media ROUTINELY gets this wrong... Usage has nothing to do with how long a player has the ball (ball-domination)... Otoh, NBA.com tracks ball-domination with their time of possession stat, which measures how long a player has the ball in their hands each game.. the top 30 for time of possession are all PG's (except lebron) because they bring the ball up court and run time-consuming screen rolls.. predictably, harden led in 2019 with 9.5 minutes per game.. lebron has the all-time record with 12.2 minutes in the 15' Finals, and 11.0 minutes in 2018 Finals.

lebron's ball-domination will likely increase alongside AD because AD isn't a ball-dominator and needs someone like lebron to feed him - it's a perfect match.. With lebron's previous super-teams, chemistry suffered because he was redundant/alongside other ball-dominators like Wade, Kyrie, and also PG Chalmers, who had a PG-time of possession too

Essentially, lebron becomes a 2nd player on the floor with a PG-level time of possession, which reduced teammates' time and assists compared to their play in 1-point guard lineups... With teammates getting less assists, the TEAM ranks low in assists and employs a low ball-movement brand that struggles on the championship level

Ultimately, lebron's weaker championship record didn't reflect lack of personal or supporting talent, but an approach to the game that didn't yield the best offenses, brand of ball, and teams of his era..

To be fair, in the 2015 finals he was alone because Kyrie and Love were out.
Point taken with regards to the usage rate.
I thought you said in another thread that you felt that this is a great fit. Or di you not feel that it will work out?
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Old 06-15-2019, 09:02 PM   #63
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Default Re: LeBron is 2nd all-time in career PER. Anthony Davis is 3rd all-time. Best duo ever?

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Originally Posted by 3ball
Each guy is flawed on their own, but perfect together - AD is too bird-fed/assisted, while Bron is too unassisted/ball-dominant for his position

I think it's the best duo ever on paper - and again, they appear to be a perfect match

Classic 3ball.

Already laying the foundation for...

"Of course they won, they are the best duo ever"

Or

"Couldn't even win with best duo ever"
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Old 06-15-2019, 09:07 PM   #64
3ball
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Default Re: LeBron is 2nd all-time in career PER. Anthony Davis is 3rd all-time. Best duo ever?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Feeny
To be fair, in the 2015 finals he was alone because Kyrie and Love were out.
Point taken with regards to the usage rate.
I thought you said in another thread that you felt that this is a great fit. Or di you not feel that it will work out?
It's a perfect fit - I mentioned this in my post, but I know my shit is long af and not the easiest to read

But I expect them to win a championship, particularly because they're going to add a 3rd superstar talent, which lebron's suboptimal teamwork needs to win

And btw, lebron's ball-domination will never be an adequate substitute for ball movement.. In the 15' Finals, I think the Cavs could've won if he achieved his same 35 ppg in 1/3 the time of possession (so about 4 minutes instead of 12).. that's what Kawhi did, so his teammates had an extra 8 minutes per game to make plays and move the ball - not surprisingly, kawhi's teammates have always played better than Lebron's, while still getting elite production from Kawhi when they need it... oh, and better defense from Bron would also have won it (not letting Iggy double his normal average from 8 to 16)

Ultimately, Kawhi was a TIMELY scorer - only when his team needed it... and that's the optimal style for the #1 option - let your teammates make plays, and when they need a monentum boost, go on a mini 2 or 3 bucket run, to loosen things back up for teammates.. but lebron tries to do everything, all the time, which isn't smart, hurts teammates, and rarely wins regardless of supporting talent
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Old 06-15-2019, 09:52 PM   #65
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Default Re: LeBron is 2nd all-time in career PER. Anthony Davis is 3rd all-time. Best duo ever?

Stupid thread and PER is for retards.

LeBron and Dwade as individuals going into 2010-11 were both ranked higher than LeBron and AD are right now.
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Old 06-15-2019, 09:56 PM   #66
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Default Re: LeBron is 2nd all-time in career PER. Anthony Davis is 3rd all-time. Best duo ever?

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Originally Posted by NASH = BEST
Stupid thread and PER is for retards.

LeBron and Dwade as individuals going into 2010-11 were both ranked higher than LeBron and AD are right now.
And yet lebron lost with him in 2011

The so-called goat teams up with the next best player in the league and loses in 2011.. then they were underdogs heading into the 12' Finals

Something isn't right about that equation.. goat + next best player = dominant favorites and winning, not perennial underdog status... Clearly, the problem with the equation is that lebron isn't goat
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Old 06-15-2019, 10:49 PM   #67
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Default Re: LeBron is 2nd all-time in career PER. Anthony Davis is 3rd all-time. Best duo ever?

This ain't peak Bron anymore...why do people keep thinking Bron is gonna be great forever?
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Old 06-15-2019, 11:40 PM   #68
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Default Re: LeBron is 2nd all-time in career PER. Anthony Davis is 3rd all-time. Best duo ever?

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Originally Posted by 1987_Lakers
That's what I thought. You can't.
So youíre saying the duo that went to less finals and won less finals was more dominant? In what way? Because of stats? I donít care about stats. My team won and nobody remembers the stats. Kareem and Magic went to the finals together twice as many times and nearly won twice as many times. Dominance isnít about one season. Kareem and Magic dominated a damn decade.
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Old 06-15-2019, 11:53 PM   #69
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Default Re: LeBron is 2nd all-time in career PER. Anthony Davis is 3rd all-time. Best duo ever?

Kareem is a role player in 88 and like a lower lvl all star in 87. Itís just inaccurate to say they won 5 rings as a dominant duo when youíre the 3rd or the 4th best player those later years. I love Kareem too could see him as GOAT
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Old 06-16-2019, 02:09 AM   #70
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Default Re: LeBron is 2nd all-time in career PER. Anthony Davis is 3rd all-time. Best duo ever?

Nah

Shaq/Kobe & Durant/Curry > AD & 35 year old LeBron
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Old 06-16-2019, 10:14 AM   #71
The Iron Fist
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Default Re: LeBron is 2nd all-time in career PER. Anthony Davis is 3rd all-time. Best duo ever?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NBAGOAT
Kareem is a role player in 88 and like a lower lvl all star in 87. Itís just inaccurate to say they won 5 rings as a dominant duo when youíre the 3rd or the 4th best player those later years. I love Kareem too could see him as GOAT
Funny how they never won again without their ď3rd or 4th best player.
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