Judge refuses to order Detroit teachers to halt sickouts

[UK2K]

So let me break it down for those who don't want to read the article...

The teachers (per the union) have all called in 'sick', to protest inadequate funding and to protest working conditions. Here are the key takeaways:

The teachers’ sick-out includes a planned march, which will conclude near a venue being visited by President Barack Obama Wednesday. Meanwhile, 46,000 kids are unable to attend school in Detroit. Among those 46,000, it’s likely that less than 4,000 of them can read proficiently.

That would be a whopping 8% of students who attend school in Detroit can't even read.

But lack of progress is due not to a lack of resources in Detroit public schools, which spend roughly $16,000 per pupil per year. According to the Mackinac Center and a separate analysis by Randan Steinhauser:

– About 75 percent of the annual District budget goes toward paying employees covered by its current collective bargaining agreement for teachers.

– Out of a new $7,450-per-pupil grant the Detroit school district will receive this year, $4,400 will be spent on debt servicing and benefits for teachers who have retired.

– The average Detroit Public Schools (DPS) superintendent makes between $121,091 and $178,871 a year.

– The superintendent can select up to two “professional associations” (unions) to be a member of each year, and the district (taxpayers) will reimburse his membership dues.

So, schools in Detroit are 'underfunded' yet, nearly 3/4 of the budget goes to the teachers and faculty. $16,000 per year, per student, and only 8% can read.

But the teachers want.... more? The kids can't even ****ing read, how are you in any position to make demands? Looks like were back to the old 'throw money at it' paradox. We tried it with the war on drugs, the war on poverty. We threw money at the poor, we threw money at the inner-cities. Now we're throwing money at the school system.

And its not, ****ing, working.

Here is the article:

(CNN)Detroit public school teachers can keep staging sickouts -- at least for the time being, a judge ruled Thursday.

The judge refused Detroit Public Schools request to issue a temporary restraining order that would have stopped public school teachers from calling sickouts.

The teachers have closed dozens of the city's schools with the sickouts, called to protest working conditions and inadequate funding.

The judge scheduled a Monday hearing in the Court of Claims to discuss the request for a preliminary injunction in the case.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/21/us/det...kout-showdown/

Thoughts?

[Velocirap31]

The article seems to say that 8.7% of the students can read proficiently, meaning that 91.3% can't read at a satisfactory level. Far worse then 8% can't read.

[UK2K]

The article seems to say that 8.7% of the students can read proficiently, meaning that 91.3% can't read at a satisfactory level. Far worse then 8% can't read.

To expand on that:

While only 7 percent scored highly enough on the department’s National Assessment of Educational Progress test in 2011 to be rated “proficient” or better in reading, only 4 percent scored highly enough to be rated “proficient” or better in math.

These kids' teachers want MORE MONEY. They believe they should be paid more. Based on.... what exactly? The kids are borderline retarded. Unfortunately, you can't fire the bad teachers though, thanks to the union. You just have to keep paying them more and more.

Their method of raising awareness? Refusing to teach the little dumbasses they don't teach now. Such caring individuals.

[Velocirap31]

Pretty unbelievable. I know these wouldn't be model students by any means, but these teachers aren't teaching them anything it seems.

[Nanners]

maybe if OP was able to read he would know that these teachers arent striking to increase their salaries, they are only striking because the school facilities have deteriorated so much that they are unsafe.

[Long Duck Dong]

They NEED more money. "It's for the kids". If you can't understand that you must be some kinda heartless a-hole.

[Rake2204]

To re-iterate, this sick-out is not the teacher's way of trying to angle for higher salaries. I don't know what Detroit teachers make specifically, though I know multiple websites will throw out something around the range of $40,000 - $60,000 per year. Again, I don't know how accurate that is though, since I've seen many schools in Michigan that start around $32,000 - $33,000.

Either way, their salary isn't the point.

The sick-out is a response to the widespread neglect and underfunding seen at schools throughout the city. Things like this:



And this:



And this:



^^If insisting toilets not be filled with toxic sewage is asking for more then yeah, teachers are asking for more.

I've passed up some teaching opportunities in Detroit only because I knew the system was in complete shambles. I wasn't certain that I'd see all my paychecks, teaching & learning conditions looked like they had the potential to be terrible, and the system itself is still trying to climb its way out of years of corruption, neglect, and general awfulness.

That said, I'd imagine most teachers would agree that the salaries of many superintendents are outrageous. Every time I see a report of a superintendent closing in on $200,000 I shake my head and become slightly depressed.

As for the test scores and reading comprehension... teachers are but one part of the puzzle. They can absolutely have a giant positive effect on any given student with which they come in contact. But so much of a child's educational position in life has to do with factors that also go well beyond teaching i.e. the ol' socio-economic status, home life, etc.

I've worked with a fair bit of affluent suburban children from well-off households and while many of them had their own share of difficulties as well, they often had a head up on their classmates who came from lower class regions or from neglected households.

The good news is, some of the best payoffs I've ever had came when I worked with alternative education students — those who fell out of the traditional school environment for a litany of factors (many of those mentioned above). Unfortunately, making huge gains with those guys still often meant they were well below the "average" affluent child/student.

TL;DR: I know the DPS situation is very complicated and there's not one easy answer. But knowing what it takes for a lot of these educators to willingly step into Detroit, regardless of pay, and knowing how far behind these children often are before they even enter the system, the least we can do is try to find a way to get the resting poop water out of the toilets, and maybe even fix the heating systems while we're at it.

[Kblaze8855]

I always wonder about kids who cant read. That isnt a school issue as much as a parenting issue to me. Who didnt learn to read before they reached school? My mom and grandma taught me to read. Granted....they were teachers....but im pretty sure the other kids were reading when I got to school as well.

Are people just letting their kids be taught the alphabet and reading by public school with no part in it?

All my younger family members were taught to read at home. I had a hand in it with many of them.

Do families in Detroit just send their kids to kindergarten or first grade to learn to read?

They were teaching me to read at home at 2 and 3 years old.

If your kid is 6 and cant read thats on the parents. The teachers have to be given something to work with. They are supposed to teach your kid what sound V makes when they have 30 other kids to watch?

Its a HASSLE teaching a kid to read. Thats why parents do it. One on one attention with a kid you have infinite love and patience with. I helped teach a dyslexic kid to read. Imagine us just sending him to school to learn? He wasnt like....special needs or whatever we call kids with mental issues or real learning disabilities. He just didnt see the words properly. You cant have that kid in school learning to read with 2 dozen other kids who are gonna outpace him. They would put him in a slow class....

Parents and family have to be involved.

[Velocirap31]

I don't remember learning how to read. I just started reading easy books and moving onto novels before grade 3. I was really into those Goosebumps books.

My friend's daughter is 12 and can't read an analog clock, multiply or divide, and probably reads at a 9 year old level. She's not handicapped. Schools just aren't what they used to be and they refuse to fail her dumb ass.

[Rake2204]

I always wonder about kids who cant read. That isnt a school issue as much as a parenting issue to me. Who didnt learn to read before they reached school? My mom and grandma taught me to read. Granted....they were teachers....but im pretty sure the other kids were reading when I got to school as well.

Are people just letting their kids be taught the alphabet and reading by public school with no part in it?

All my younger family members were taught to read at home. I had a hand in it with many of them.

Do families in Detroit just send their kids to kindergarten or first grade to learn to read?

They were teaching me to read at home at 2 and 3 years old.

If your kid is 6 and cant read thats on the parents. The teachers have to be given something to work with. They are supposed to teach your kid what sound V makes when they have 30 other kids to watch?

Its a HASSLE teaching a kid to read. Thats why parents do it. One on one attention with a kid you have infinite love and patience with. I helped teach a dyslexic kid to read. Imagine us just sending him to school to learn? He wasnt like....special needs. He just didnt see the words properly. You cant have that kid in school learning to read with 2 dozen other kids who are gonna outpace him. They would put him in a slow class....

Parents and family have to be involved.

A close friend of mine is a first grade teacher in a pretty diverse middle class school district. Her students coming in run the gamut.

Some are exceptional for their age, others right where they should be, and some are already way behind where they should be for that particular grade level. And yes, in the vast majority of cases, particularly at the first grade level, it has an awful lot to do with a child's home environment and neglect (unless there's an underlying cognitive issue).

It's pretty interesting to hear the circumstances many of the children face coming in. She works with them regardless and they usually make great strides but again, great strides for a child who came into first grade with a pre-school reading level (if that's even a thing) usually just means they're close to a kindergarten grade level once second grade is already well underway (i.e. they're a year or more behind from the start and it just perpetuates).

Naturally, one says these kids should be held back. But the parents must agree to such a move in most cases and, surprise, even the most neglectful parents usually want nothing to do with holding their kid back to master the skills they should have acquired two years earlier if someone would have been cognizant of their educational development prior to entering the school system (though, many parents themselves didn't have parents that did this, once again perpetuating the cycle).

As an example of what my friend's working with — she sends conference schedule times home with kids for parents to confirm, sign, and return. One of those parents confirmed a 4:00 p.m. schedule time. The mom showed up at 7:30, in the middle of another parent's conference. My friend apologized and said the parent could wait until 8:00. The parent left, then refused to answer the phone or return e-mails looking to re-schedule. Same parent has been resistant to helping child with at-home practice sheets and strategies that could help him get up to speed (began year far behind).

Moreover, schools have made it very, very difficult to have students qualify for special needs. So in many cases, when a student begins their academic career 18 steps behind, there's a good chance they'll never have the opportunity to catch up, no matter what miracles teachers try to create.

Parental neglect can be vastly, vastly underrated. Even in "middle-class" communities, the odd stories never stop coming. Parent-teacher conferences are often the time where "it all makes sense" for educators, where they can often begin to piece together the puzzle of each individual student, in terms of where they came from and why they are what they are (the good, the bad, and the ugly). It's honestly pretty crazy.

With all that in mind, considering the stories from "regular" communities, I can't even imagine what it's like in Detroit when it comes to tardiness, neglect, unaddressed learning disabilities, disciplinary issues, etc.

[Kblaze8855]

I dont remember learning to read either. I just remember when I was maybe 4-5 we had flash cards and such laying around and being told....thats how I learned to read. I dont think anyone should learn to read late enough to remember it well.

Maybe im thrown off because my mom is a teacher. A Montessori teacher at that. SO I got to go to the private school she taught at for free for a while and then at a deep discount. And several other members of my family have done the same. Its a small school shes been at for almost 30 years and she has considerable pull to get people in on the low. So I honestly dont even know what kids learn in the early years of public school.

So maybe im not the best one to discuss these issues.

We teach all our family members to read once they show a spark of sentience....I cant even imagine someone of my blood not being able to read before school. But as I said....the other kids I was with could read as well.

I could usually read much better....but they could read. How the **** are communities allowing their children not to read?

The way kids all have tablets and such these days....and use the internet? Id imagine kids would be reading even earlier. Not that you have to read exactly to use all these devices....but you kinda need to read to use the internet. My little cousins are like 4 looking shit up on youtube.....typing what they want to see.

Are parents just giving their kids food and tv and letting the school raise them?

[Rake2204]

Are parents just giving their kids food and tv and letting the school raise them?

There's a lot of wonderful parents out there. And there's a lot of wonderful parents who sometimes can't even manage enough food for their child.

But yeah, there's also an endless stream of awful parents. Think about it this way: consider all the people you've directly or indirectly come in contact with in your life that left you walking away thinking, "Wow, that person has some gaps..."

^^^Most of those people end up having children.

And for some, regardless of their life's mistakes or shortcomings before, parenthood can change them to the point that they overcome any and all obstacles when it comes to making sure their child gets everything it needs to succeed (including early cognitive development and the like).

For others, there's not a lot that changes. Some willfully suck as parents, others just knew no different considering their own childhood (and a lot more fall right inbetween).

There's something like 73 million kids in the United States right now. Even if parents were 85 percent awesome when it came to teaching their kids how to read and being active in their educational experience, you'd still be talking about 10 million kids with sucky upbringings. Unfortunately, I believe that number runs wayyyy higher.

[UK2K]

maybe if OP was able to read he would know that these teachers arent striking to increase their salaries, they are only striking because the school facilities have deteriorated so much that they are unsafe.

Where do you think the money goes to improve those schools? Maybe if you were able to read, you'd have seen that 3/4 of the district budget goes to the salaries of the teachers and faculty.

The teacher's salaries dumbass. Yeah, they have unsafe schools, when the AVERAGE superintendent in Detroit makes about $150k per year.

Tell me, how can I get a job that pays me $150k per year with zero accountability? Most places, you'd get fired if your department was running at historically inept levels, but not in Detroit, and not when you're part of the union.

What they should do is close half the schools that are shitty, fire the staff so as to instantly cut their expenses in half, and spend the rest of the money to upgrade the schools still open. So the kids get bussed 30 minutes instead of 15? Big deal.

But, what is the point, really? You could build a brand new school full of awesome technology and they'd just destroy it.

The D.C. public school system was among the first in the country to incorporate student test scores into its teacher evaluation system, called IMPACT, in the 2009-2010 school year. The system includes bonuses for high-performing teachers and the threat of termination among poorly-performing teachers.

Teacher turnover within the district was higher than average during the first three years of IMPACT. D.C. schools had an 18 percent turnover rate, compared with the nationwide average of 13 percent, according to the report.

The study by the National Bureau of Economic Research examined teacher turnover during the first three years of IMPACT.

It found that students do better on tests after teachers who score poorly in evaluations leave their jobs. Each year of the study, 46 percent of low-performing teachers left, The Washington Post reported.

Teacher turnover is often viewed as having a negative impact on student achievement. Districts acknowledge that it places pressure on their recruitment to replace departing teachers.

Critics say that teacher evaluations like IMPACT cause stresses that drive away good teachers, and unfairly punish teachers who work in high-poverty schools.

The study says that the departure of high-performing teachers leads students' test scores to drop slightly. Still, overall, the study found that turnover under IMPACT led to higher student achievement.

D.C. Public Schools officials told The Washington Post that high performing teachers do not cite IMPACT as one of the top 10 reasons they leave. Most often, they leave their jobs because of personal reasons, the district said.

Researchers say the benefits of having poorly-performing teachers leave are dramatic -- the equivalent to students receiving around one-third of a year of learning in math and reading.

When you get rid of the unions, you can get rid of the shitty teachers, and you can find educators who care about their job.

[Kblaze8855]

What do you think a superintendent should make? A guy who oversees a billion dollar budget and thousands of educated professionals? Some store managers of walmart make that. What do you plan to pay a PHD with 30 years of experience to run a billion dollar operation and hundreds of other people with masters degrees and doctorates?

You dont really find people like that....who are gonna take KFC manager money.

By the time you have the resume to even think about being a superintendent you arent taking some bullshit money.

How many jobs do you think there are where you can be the boss of....a PHDs boss and not make 150K?

[FreezingTsmoove]

Pretty unbelievable. I know these wouldn't be model students by any means, but these teachers aren't teaching them anything it seems.

As someone who has been to school in the ghetto it is hard to learn when all your classmates are always goofing off and being distractions to the teachers