Bobby Jones vs Dennis Rodman

[SHAQisGOAT]

Building a team, who would you pick? Considering more prime/peak here...


I like this comparison...

2 of the greatest, most versatile defenders ever, 2 of the all-time best at the so called guarding 1-5. Both played major m2m defense.
Both top5 GOAT defensive forwards.
2 of the best role-players you could ask for.
Both displayed tremendous hustle, put their body on the line, knew how to win lots of charges, giving it all on the court, both played with great intensity in their own way.
Both played for winning teams/franchises, both had great impact, both champions as very good contributors (Jones still got to win one as the 6moty for Philly).

Both did their thing in the post-season plenty of times.

One of them had one of the "cleanest" style of playing defense and such... The other not really
They're extremely different off the court too

Both were great overall athletes, both had long arms, Dennis with a wider frame, Bobby was taller and had that lanky physique.

Dennis still got to play like 5 seasons at over 35 MPG while Jones couldn't really do that though, as he suffers from asthma, a chronic heart disorder, as well as occasional epileptic seizures... Required medication and couldn't play like 35 or more minutes every night... Still left it all out there and was great in many ways, that's very impressive tbh.

Jones shot considerably better from the FT-line, he was a tremendous finisher at the rim with either hand, he could knock down close-range jumpers at very high rates (mostly open but definitely not all of them), while Rodman had more shooting range and could also finish at the rim pretty well.
Both great at putbacks, Worm got more ofc.

Bobby clearly boasted better scoring outputs, and for the most part better passing too.
Rodman's one of the GOAT rebounders so he's obviously above there, and I'd say he was a better outlet passer.
Jones was a better off-ball defender having easily greater steals/blocks numbers.


Bobby's peak was most likely in 1977:

-15.1 PPG
-8.3 RPG
-3.2 APG
-2.3 SPG (7th in the league in STL%)
-2.0 BPG (10th in BLK%)
-29.5 MPG
-.570 FG% (3rd in the league)
-.717 FT%
-all-defensive 1st
-most likely would've won DPOY, if it was awarded that year
-all-star
-9th in PER
-2nd in DWS
-1st in DRtg
-2nd in WS/48
-2nd in box +/-
-3rd scoring option on a 50W team (team playing at the 2nd highest pace)
-best defender on the #1 defensive team

Rodman's peak season was probably 1992 (although pretty debatable):

-9.8 PPG
-18.7 RPG (easily best in the league)
-2.3 APG (1.7 TO's)
-0.8 SPG, 0.9 BPG
-40.3 MPG (3rd highest)
-53.9% FG
-31.7% from 3 on 1.2 attempts per game
-60% FT
-all-defensive 1st (just a year prior was repeating as DPOY)
-10th in MVP voting
-all-star
-1st in DWS
-4th in DRtg
-9th in WS
-4th in defensive box +/-
-Pistons were clearly over the hill but still posted a respectful 48-34 record, with Rodman being the one who played the most minutes, also the best defender on that 6th best defensive ranked team


Rodman has 2 DPOY's and, like I've said, Bobby would've gotten 1 if it was awarded back then.
In 10 NBA seasons, Bobby was 8x all-defensive 1st and once 2nd in his last season... Dennis' 7x all-defensive 1st and once 2nd.
Bobby had 4 all-star game appearances to Rodman's 2.
Dennis was 2 times all-nba 3rd but that didn't exist in Bobby's time.
Jones was the 1st player to ever win the 6th man of the year award.

Rodman:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...rodmade01.html
career highlights - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1j0VXi843s
defense on Magic in the '88 Finals - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpbHgEVdvX0

Jones:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...jonesbo01.html
career highlights - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NxCr-3L8J4
defense vs Portland in the '77 Playoffs - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7nxOhaqZlE

Oh, and such a shame that Bobby's not yet in the HoF.

[Foster5k]

The Worm.

[SHAQisGOAT]

---------------

[kennethgriffin]

rodman would average 30 rpg in the 60's

goat rebounder... top 5 all time defender

greatest work ethic/hustle of all time.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Admittedly, I haven't watched enough Bobby Jones tape to make an accurate selection, but I'll just say that, me, personally, would take very few over Rodman in-terms of rebounding AND defending. He's near/in that tier with Russell IMO.

Worm was a loose cannon but there was no other modern player that played defense and rebounded better than he did. The guy would pull down 20 rebounds in his sleep... against Shaq too.

It's crazy that some people don't realize or just flat-out ignore his impact on the second 3-peat Bulls. The team didn't actually shoot much better than the league average, but they averaged far more attempts than their opponents, and since attempts in the NBA on average mean about a point-and-a-quarter each, the 8 or 9 extra shots the Bulls got per game over their opponents translated into about 10-12 points. Who do you think was responsible for the Bulls getting 8 or 9 more shots than their opponents? Above all, Rodman.

His antics (both off and on the court) may have overshadowed his game, but the dude won everywhere he went. In my book, he was as intense as Jordan.

[ArbitraryWater]

never seen that.. Isiah made the pass?

[Dr.J4ever]

It's hard to compare. If I needed a SF to complete my team, Bobby would be my guy. If I needed a PF/C or just 1 big to play with 4 other perimeter players in this era, I would take Dennis. Dennis was a monster, and he would have dominated the paint in today's era of small ball.

During the early 80s, the 76ers would use Bobby on Bird, but at the endgame when Julius and Bobby would be on the floor, Jones was versatile enough to guard Mchale. That was a little problematic, and I would much rather put Rodman on Mchale.

Jones was a special player and close to my heart. If you love the intangible parts of the game, then he would be the poster child. Jones not only produced defensive stats like steal, blocks etc., but also defended and stopped countless shots from going in during clutch time by well defending jumpers and such.

Talk about "glue guys", Bobby "glued" the 76ers together with his quiet leadership, high character, and unselfish play.

When Doc was asked to name the 5 toughest players he had to go against, Jones was on the list.

[SHAQisGOAT]

never seen that.. Isiah made the pass?

Joey D...

One of the GOAT passes for sure, one of my favorites.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

never seen that.. Isiah made the pass?

GOAT level pass.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Think plenty of people will underrate Bobby here, he's one of the most overlooked ever so...

This is much closer than some may think...

They were both versatile af on defense, both could guard many types of players from multiple positions.
I'd say that Rodman's better in terms of m2m D but Jones was also major at it while a bit better at ball-denial and brought along superior off-ball defense, steals/blocks numbers that Rodman never even got close to.

Bobby was a very good rebounder but Rodman's a top5 GOAT at that, so clearly above... But, while Dennis had more range on his shot and was a better outlet passer, Jones had scoring outputs that Rodman never came that close to match, doing it with greater efficiency too (from the field and line), plus he was definitely a better half-court (and overall) passer.

Just at Jones' best seasons, and so on...

(with all of this I'm not saying I'd pick Bobby, though)

[iamgine]

On court impact wise, they're similar.

But Bobby Jones at least provided some on court, locker room and off court leadership. Dennis...not so much, more of a liability in that area. Bobby's also more versatile. Bobby Jones would be more useful to more type of teams than Dennis Rodman.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

I think Rodman is closer to Russell than Jones.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Admittedly, I haven't watched enough Bobby Jones tape to make an accurate selection, but I'll just say that, me, personally, would take very few over Rodman in-terms of rebounding AND defending. He's near/in that tier with Russell IMO.

Worm was a loose cannon but there was no other modern player that played defense and rebounded better than he did. The guy would pull down 20 rebounds in his sleep... against Shaq too.

It's crazy that some people don't realize or just flat-out ignore his impact on the second 3-peat Bulls. The team didn't actually shoot much better than the league average, but they averaged far more attempts than their opponents, and since attempts in the NBA on average mean about a point-and-a-quarter each, the 8 or 9 extra shots the Bulls got per game over their opponents translated into about 10-12 points. Who do you think was responsible for the Bulls getting 8 or 9 more shots than their opponents? Above all, Rodman.

His antics (both off and on the court) may have overshadowed his game, but the dude won everywhere he went. In my book, he was as intense as Jordan.

No doubt that Rodman had lots of impact, going way beyond stats.

It's hard to compare. If I needed a SF to complete my team, Bobby would be my guy. If I needed a PF/C or just 1 big to play with 4 other perimeter players in this era, I would take Dennis. Dennis was a monster, and he would have dominated the paint in today's era of small ball.

During the early 80s, the 76ers would use Bobby on Bird, but at the endgame when Julius and Bobby would be on the floor, Jones was versatile enough to guard Mchale. That was a little problematic, and I would much rather put Rodman on Mchale.

Jones was a special player and close to my heart. If you love the intangible parts of the game, then he would be the poster child. Jones not only produced defensive stats like steal, blocks etc., but also defended and stopped countless shots from going in during clutch time by well defending jumpers and such.

Talk about "glue guys", Bobby "glued" the 76ers together with his quiet leadership, high character, and unselfish play.

When Doc was asked to name the 5 toughest players he had to go against, Jones was on the list.

Bobby And he's one of the classiest guys ever, on and off the court.

Tbh, Jones spent his peak years as more of a PF while Dennis spent his best years as more of a SF...
Both would guard any type of forward and plenty more, but Bobby was seeing more bigs than Rodman during those years.

Dennis was at his overall best (and overall best defensively) in his years with the Bad Boys, when he was more of a SF, and more of a perimeter defender too.
Still rebounded better than Jones though, already pretty good at guarding the post by that time also.

Plus, like I've said, even though Bobby scored more on better efficiency and shot better from the FT line, Rodman had more range on his jumpshot...
Also, there wasn't much of a weight difference between them during those years, while Bobby was taller (Dennis most likely stronger though).

'77 Nuggets ran mostly a lineup of Issel at C with Jones at the 4.
Pistons had Isiah/Dumars/Rodman/Laimbeer/Edwards... When Dennis moved into the starting5 in 1990.

Not saying they wouldn't or couldn't play the 3/4 though.

Funny because later in their careers, Dennis became more of a PF and better at guarding bigs than before (considerably more mass helped), while Bobby as a 6th man for Philly would sub-in many times to guard SF's and SG's (still playing some PF plenty though and guarding them).

[Pointguard]

No doubt that Rodman had lots of impact, going way beyond stats.

Bobby And he's one of the classiest guys ever, on and off the court.

Tbh, Jones spent his peak years as more of a PF while Dennis spent his best years as more of a SF...
Both would guard any type of forward and plenty more, but Bobby was seeing more bigs than Rodman during those years.

Dennis was at his overall best (and overall best defensively) in his years with the Bad Boys, when he was more of a SF, and more of a perimeter defender too.
Still rebounded better than Jones though, already pretty good at guarding the post by that time also.

Plus, like I've said, even though Bobby scored more on better efficiency and shot better from the FT line, Rodman had more range on his jumpshot...
Also, there wasn't much of a weight difference between them during those years, while Bobby was taller (Dennis most likely stronger though).

'77 Nuggets ran mostly a lineup of Issel at C with Jones at the 4.
Pistons had Isiah/Dumars/Rodman/Laimbeer/Edwards... When Dennis moved into the starting5 in 1990.

Not saying they wouldn't or couldn't play the 3/4 though.

Funny because later in their careers, Dennis became more of a PF and better at guarding bigs than before (considerably more mass helped), while Bobby as a 6th man for Philly would sub-in many times to guard SF's and SG's (still playing some PF plenty though and guarding them).

I would take Bobby Jones first overall as a player. I would take Rodman as a pure defender. I never understood the NBA not wanting to use Bobby Jones - and his class, in some other capacity (just throw to throw money at him).

Yes he should be in the Hall of Fame

[ClipperRevival]

Well thought out post OP.

I never saw Jones play so I can't comment but it's good to read in-depth analysis on players I never saw, which increases my understanding of the history of the game.

Rodman is one of my all time favorite players so I take that guy on my all time team any day. I can find other guys who can score. I just need him to play D (so versatile), rebound, run the floor and go after every loose ball. To me, he is the GOAT rebounder ever and the most versatile defender ever. That guy gave his all everytime he stepped on the court.