Hunters...the biggest fukking

[LBJ 23]

I'm right. And yes density dependent controls will take place and usually only last a season; whether it's disease, starvation, or whatever.

The point remains, hunting as population control is a dumb ****ing reason, especially when many times the populations need controlling because they were inflated due to management that relies on hunting fees.

You're wrong. Your point would be valid if we would be talking a lot of years back when our development didn't influence the wildlife directly or indirectly as much as it does now. Destroying the habitats due to industry, roads, deforestation, ,... all that is causing much bigger(it's actually not even comparable) disproportion of different kinds of species populations in some areas because some species can adapt and others can't and become extinct on that area. And if we are talking about the predator and the prey correlation and if the predator is the one who can't adapt in this case, then you have a problem. And management that relies on hunting fees is not even comparable to the problem I mentioned.

[enayes]

There are degrees of it. I don't like hunting, but as long as the person eats what they kill, I'm fine with it. Then there's also population control, where a species can overwhelm another one and cause massive problems.

The two aspects of hunting that I can't stand are when animals are kept in those planned areas where people who don't know how to hunt can just shoot them anyway and the animal has zero chance of escape. If the animal doesn't at least have some chance of escape and the outcome is a foregone conclusion, just go to a butcher and stop pretending that you're anything other than a bitch. I also hate that "catch and release" shit where when people catch a fish they don't want, they just rip the hook out of its mouth and chuck it back into the water. You broke it you bought it, asshole.

Are you saying that if you catch a fish you shouldn't be able to throw it back?

You must have never gone fishing because you can catch the same fish 20 times in a row and the fish will be alive and well.

[enayes]

I am a hunter.

I only bow hunt and I started with a recurve (old style) bow.

I hunted on foot with it but was unable to kill a deer, I made a good shot on one but was unable to recover the animal and later saw it alive and well.

I killed my first and only deer with a compound bow.

I plan on using a crossbow this year, mainly because I know I can be more accurate with it and have a better chance of making a safe and humane kill.

[LBJ 23]

I'd also like to add that your story wreaks of bullshit, because I can't imagine a situation where you'd find hundreds of foxes dead in the woods. They have decent sized ranges and are territorial. It's also fairly uncommon outside of Europe to be overrun with foxes, because no matter the location they have few predators to begin with outside of traffic and eagles.

It's not bullshit. I'm from a country in the middle-east Europe and that's what happened. Last thing I need is making up stories about freaking foxes on ISH? Yes they have few predators to begin with, but where I live there is no bigger predators such as bears, wolves, lynxes nor does the fox have any competitors in the same size range like in the US such as coyotes, racoons and all other similar species which are living on your continent. All this led to such large disparities in population.

[LBJ 23]

And yea Kblaze you're right that system works perfectly.....in a world where human civilization does not exist and interfere with nature as radically as it does in a real world.

[Kblaze8855]

It would work now. What do you really think would happen if we didnt kill the "extra" animals?

They would die anyway....we would just be annoyed in the process.

As I said...we dont need to be involved. We just want to be.

And most of the problems were created by us in the first place.

Its ****ing with nature and replacing its response with a bullet which serves the same purpose.

But the bullet is more fun and reduces our having to deal with the animals dying on their own.

It has nothing to do with the well being of the animals.

Its just to serve our own purposes.

Which is...whatever. Im not some activist. I have leather seats. But I can be real about it.

Its just swapping suffering for my comfort. Id like it to end...but not enough to do anything about it.

Im selfish.

Which just makes me human.

[-p.tiddy-]

Disease can be a problem with animal overpopulation... Also sometimes animals can be overpopulated due to human interaction in the environment. Development killed their preditors maybe, so there is nothing to kill it and they take over

And yeah I don't see the point in talking about what would happen if humans didn't exist... We do exist. Maybe without humans aligators take over the entire earth. That doesn't mean we should let that happen.

[LBJ 23]

And most of the problems were created by us in the first place.

Yep, and that's why it's better in some cases that we're the ones who control the problem and not the nature, because that problem was created with our interference in the first place, and the last valves which nature would use would be too radical because that problem would not be there by the stream of natural laws in the first place.

Otherwise I pretty much agree what you say. Atleast you understand how things work and you're not one of those activists who will say ''ohh look at that poor animal getting shot by the hunter'' not knowing that nature could eliminate that particular animal in a much more terrible fashion.

[Kblaze8855]

Yep, and that's why it's better in some cases that we're the ones who control the problem and not the nature, because that problem was created with our interference in the first place, and the last valves which nature would use would be too radical because that problem would not be there by the stream of natural laws in the first place.

Otherwise I pretty much agree what you say. Atleast you understand how things work and you're not one of those activists who will say ''ohh look at that poor animal getting shot by the hunter'' not knowing that nature could eliminate that particular animal in a much more terrible fashion.

Be that as it may I think we both know most animals that are killed even those supposedly overpopulated aren't killed as an act of compassion.

It's largely just an excuse to kill.

As I said I live in the American South so I work with literally a dozen people who hunt. Men and women.

A lot of them sound straight up aroused talking about the things they kill and how fun it was.

A huge portion of the population control excuse is just bullshit. These people can't wait till their favorite season for killing rolls around.

I know a country girl who left from my job and took less money to work at an outdoor spot called Cabelas just off the love of hunting.

White girl from Texas. wears cowboy boots and all that. Has a bow and all these guns.

Shit is a way of life down here.

She isn't putting a gun in her five-year-olds hands on Facebook because she has a legitimate concern about deer overpopulation.

[~primetime~]

Just for those who think all the hunting is done in Texas or just the south.

[LBJ 23]

Be that as it may I think we both know most animals that are killed even those supposedly overpopulated aren't killed as an act of compassion.

It's largely just an excuse to kill.

As I said I live in the American South so I work with literally a dozen people who hunt. Men and women.

A lot of them sound straight up aroused talking about the things they kill and how fun it was.

A huge portion of the population control excuse is just bullshit. These people can't wait till their favorite season for killing rolls around.

I know a country girl who left from my job and took less money to work at an outdoor spot called Cabelas just off the love of hunting.

White girl from Texas. wears cowboy boots and all that. Has a bow and all these guns.

Shit is a way of life down here.

She isn't putting a gun in her five-year-olds hands on Facebook because she has a legitimate concern about deer overpopulation.

Again, I completely agree with you on this point. If you check my first post in this thread I also mentioned that trophy hunting is something what absolutely should not be allowed. And thats what 99% of hunters do, hunt for trophies. Then you have those who love weapons and hunt animals just for the sake of shooting on a live target. Like I said, here where I live most of the old hunters are seeking just those rare/strangely shaped antlers on deer and are competing who has better trophy like it's a dick competition. Stupid, sad, primitive.

Looking at your and my examples of what kind of hunters we personally know, it still doesn't change the fact that there are instances and areas where hunting can be a method to correctly control some populations and this is not just a dumb argument like DeuceWallaces said. And that's all I'm saying in this thread.

And believe it or not, I try to hunt for that purpose only when I use a gun, otherwise I spend most of my time training/hunting with my falcons.

It's 7 am here, I finished my night shift and I go to sleep now

[Kblaze8855]

I don't see hunters per mile as the way to look at it for obvious reasons. More people hunt in NY or Jersey than Wyoming.

But Wyoming is larger than either(much larger than Jersey) with a population less than the county I live in....in South Carolina.

Per capita Wyoming has much more hunters. Its like 35% of their population. Same for Montana. Your chart has Alabama and Jersey similar....how many New Jerseys would fit into Alabama?

And how many people are in Jersey?

Hunting per capita is the way to look at that.

Im sure the north still has a lot. But it isn't the same....way of life.

And im sure a lot more of the hunters up north are casual talked into it hunters...not living it.

These rednecks around here talk 2 things....

Hunting and college football.

[StephHamann]

Im a fisher, love fishing in the North Sea. Nothing tastes better than fresh fish.

[ballup]

You think cattle volunteer for the slaughterhouse?

Yes. The smiling cow on my lunchables box confirms thisi

[JohnnySic]

One reason I'm glad I live in Mass where hunting is so strictly regulated its almost not worth doing.