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Old 03-16-2018, 05:20 PM   #1
Ruk25
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Default Trickle-down economic EXPOSED Again!

https://www.yahoo.com/news/gop-confr...-election.html

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OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) -- When the GOP took full control of Oklahoma government after the 2010 election, lawmakers set out to make it a model of Republican principles, with lower taxes, lighter regulation and a raft of business-friendly reforms.

Conservatives passed all of it, setting in motion a grand experiment. Now it's time for another big election, but instead of campaigning on eight years of achievements, Republicans are confronting chaos and crisis. Agency budgets that were cut during the Great Recession have been slashed even deeper. Rural hospitals are closing, and teachers are considering a statewide strike over low wages.

Look i lean right on most things ex im pro gun, but this is what i mean when i say that people who call themselves either pure democrats or pure republicans are idiots. Which is 60% of the country! You guys only follow the party line.

My black people are the worst. Libs convinced them to support illegal immigration to people who will compete for the same jobs or housing ect as them. Most are like **** the police but support a liberal policy which will make cops the only ones armed!

Most americans support policies that are bad for themselves just to go along their politic affiliations.

The fact that most right wingers support trickle down economics makes liberals sound like the sane ones.

How did they do it? Convince millions of people that giving tax breaks to the wealthy would be good for the middle class or the poor?

Quote:
"I'm not scared to say it, because I love Oklahoma, and we are dying," said Republican state Rep. Leslie Osborn. "I truly believe the situation is dire."

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Old 03-16-2018, 05:31 PM   #2
Ruk25
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Default Re: Trickle-down economic EXPOSED Again!

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Since 2009, more than two dozen state agencies have seen their budgets slashed by more than 30 percent. The cuts have been especially painful in public schools, where funding has dipped since 2015, even though enrollment has climbed by about 10,000 students statewide.

Teachers are in shorter supply too. There are about 1,500 fewer teachers in Oklahoma than in 2010, according to a recent study, and nearly 20 percent of districts have shifted to a four-day school week to save money.

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Old 03-16-2018, 05:35 PM   #3
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Default Re: Trickle-down economic EXPOSED Again!

Yup...were in a gridlock of people on the left erroneously supporting things like illegal immigration, and people on the right supporting things like giving all money up to corps while their educators and healers die. Ds are crooks, and Rs sell out their own communities while keeping their uneducated base on a string with fear mongering over blacks Muslims socialism, and worst of all...evil regulations. The private elite class sits back and watches all the idiots hurl shit while they RAKE in the dough. Give em a tax cut they'll do like old time gangsters and toss a few bones to look robin hood, but its all a sham. Numbers don't lie.
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Old 03-16-2018, 09:03 PM   #4
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Default Re: Trickle-down economic EXPOSED Again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpols
Yup...were in a gridlock of people on the left erroneously supporting things like illegal immigration, and people on the right supporting things like giving all money up to corps while their educators and healers die. Ds are crooks, and Rs sell out their own communities while keeping their uneducated base on a string with fear mongering over blacks Muslims socialism, and worst of all...evil regulations. The private elite class sits back and watches all the idiots hurl shit while they RAKE in the dough. Give em a tax cut they'll do like old time gangsters and toss a few bones to look robin hood, but its all a sham. Numbers don't lie.

So true. It's understandable how so many conservatives either dismiss or flat out don't recognize the problem posed by money in politics (likely the biggest issue we have domestically), because in the majority of cases it serves to facilitate their ideology staying the status quo.

Otoh I don't think there's anything wrong with strengthening borders, though Trump making the wall etc. a centerpiece of his race-baiting campaign has further emboldened those who were already predisposed to considering this racist. At the same time, yes, I would amnesty current illegals who are NOT violent criminals (the vast majority, of course). You need to be humane about it when you do tighten things up, and dismantling families isn't the way.
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Old 03-16-2018, 09:32 PM   #5
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Default Re: Trickle-down economic EXPOSED Again!

The wall isn't about keeping Mexicans out.

It's about fattening the pockets of Trump and his buddies.
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Old 03-16-2018, 09:46 PM   #6
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Default Re: Trickle-down economic EXPOSED Again!

@NumberSix (not sure what happened to your post, but I'm sure others will say the same thing so I'll leave my thoughts anyway)

People have first amendment rights. Corporations should not. I don't believe the obvious problem of money in politics would suddenly disappear if this was made law, however, and sure there are ways to work around almost anything. The Citizens United decision (which everyone always understandably points to on this issue) certainly added to the problem, but the influence of the rich in our system has been around forever.

Really the only way to solve this damning, oligarchic indictment on our society is to enlighten more and more people to what's going on and cultivating a more widespread grassroots reaction, because numbers will trump money every time if we aren't so disengaged. I think we are on that path.

It stands to reason that many on the right will opt to look the other way on this issue. I don't doubt that you personally are a staunch believer that money = speech in all cases, #6. But I do think there's a general indifference to this as being "just the way it is", something I hear from right-wingers I know regularly. And I can't help feeling like 80% of them are thoroughly unprincipled in that belief, trying to equate human beings with corporations (a major stretch) as a means to an end. Maybe I'm just cynical on that point. But all in all, the drawbacks are too great for me to defend, when the free speech point is so dubious. We have caps on individual contributions for a good reason.
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Old 03-16-2018, 10:49 PM   #7
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Default Re: Trickle-down economic EXPOSED Again!

US teacher's wages are higher than any country in Europe except for Germany.

US nursing wages are higher than any country in Europe with a trending outlook of a whopping 15-20% increase over the next 10 years. (1.4%/yr from 2008-2013, 2.6%/yr increase from 2014-2017). Compare that to Britain where nurses are looking at at 10% decrease in wages over next 10 years, and nurses are literally quitting to work at supermarkets and fast food restaurants.

So if the US has trickle down economics and the rest of the developed world doesn't, which really is working?
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Old 03-16-2018, 11:36 PM   #8
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Default Re: Trickle-down economic EXPOSED Again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Long Duck Dong
US teacher's wages are higher than any country in Europe except for Germany.

US nursing wages are higher than any country in Europe with a trending outlook of a whopping 15-20% increase over the next 10 years. (1.4%/yr from 2008-2013, 2.6%/yr increase from 2014-2017). Compare that to Britain where nurses are looking at at 10% decrease in wages over next 10 years, and nurses are literally quitting to work at supermarkets and fast food restaurants.

So if the US has trickle down economics and the rest of the developed world doesn't, which really is working?
A) That is incorrect, albeit I was surprised to see how high on the list we were.
B) You do know rich people don't pay teachers salaries right? The government does.
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Old 03-16-2018, 11:59 PM   #9
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Default Re: Trickle-down economic EXPOSED Again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by KyrieTheFuture
B) You do know rich people don't pay teachers salaries right? The government does.
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Old 03-17-2018, 01:01 AM   #10
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Default Re: Trickle-down economic EXPOSED Again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruk25
https://www.yahoo.com/news/gop-confr...-election.html



Look i lean right on most things ex im pro gun, but this is what i mean when i say that people who call themselves either pure democrats or pure republicans are idiots. Which is 60% of the country! You guys only follow the party line.

My black people are the worst. Libs convinced them to support illegal immigration to people who will compete for the same jobs or housing ect as them. Most are like **** the police but support a liberal policy which will make cops the only ones armed!

Most americans support policies that are bad for themselves just to go along their politic affiliations.

The fact that most right wingers support trickle down economics makes liberals sound like the sane ones.

How did they do it? Convince millions of people that giving tax breaks to the wealthy would be good for the middle class or the poor?

What does this have to do with tax breaks and "trickle down economics"?

Teachers going on strike has nothing to do with economics.
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Old 03-17-2018, 01:02 AM   #11
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Default Re: Trickle-down economic EXPOSED Again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by NumberSix

Apparently rich people don't pay the majority of taxes in America.
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Old 03-17-2018, 01:08 AM   #12
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Default Re: Trickle-down economic EXPOSED Again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScalsFan21
@NumberSix (not sure what happened to your post, but I'm sure others will say the same thing so I'll leave my thoughts anyway)

People have first amendment rights. Corporations should not. I don't believe the obvious problem of money in politics would suddenly disappear if this was made law, however, and sure there are ways to work around almost anything. The Citizens United decision (which everyone always understandably points to on this issue) certainly added to the problem, but the influence of the rich in our system has been around forever.

Really the only way to solve this damning, oligarchic indictment on our society is to enlighten more and more people to what's going on and cultivating a more widespread grassroots reaction, because numbers will trump money every time if we aren't so disengaged. I think we are on that path.

It stands to reason that many on the right will opt to look the other way on this issue. I don't doubt that you personally are a staunch believer that money = speech in all cases, #6. But I do think there's a general indifference to this as being "just the way it is", something I hear from right-wingers I know regularly. And I can't help feeling like 80% of them are thoroughly unprincipled in that belief, trying to equate human beings with corporations (a major stretch) as a means to an end. Maybe I'm just cynical on that point. But all in all, the drawbacks are too great for me to defend, when the free speech point is so dubious. We have caps on individual contributions for a good reason.

Why should corporations not have first amendment rights? They are treated as entities in law cases.

Citizens United (an organization) vs. FEC (a government entity). It's not some ridiculous thing to consider. Corporations are an association of people. If they weren't seen as a person, you wouldn't be able to sue a corporation. You'd have to sue every individual.

How about legislation without representation? Overregulation and overtaxation can cause corporations to lose profits and guess what? That means layoffs for the individuals in those corporations. IF the government wasn't so entangled in enterprise, corporations wouldn't have to try and get things to go their way.

It's just very authoritarian to me to want to silence speech because it doesn't fit your agenda. People have free will. They can choose how they like. You pointed out the issue in your post (disengagement). That's a cultural issue. I think it's shortsighted to try and correct a cultural issue with a law.

Speech, even if you pay for it, should be protected.
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Old 03-17-2018, 02:18 AM   #13
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Default Re: Trickle-down economic EXPOSED Again!

In Germany teachers - and most teachers in europe - dont have the right to strike, because they are public officials. like every public official, they cant be fired and have a very good retirement prnsion (71% of the last salary). so they can plan well for the future. why piblic officials dont have the right to strike? because the public/federal/state duties must always be functional. lol @ 4 day school weeks

Last edited by pastis : 03-17-2018 at 02:22 AM.
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Old 03-17-2018, 03:10 AM   #14
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Default Re: Trickle-down economic EXPOSED Again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pastis
In Germany teachers - and most teachers in europe - dont have the right to strike, because they are public officials. like every public official, they cant be fired and have a very good retirement prnsion (71% of the last salary). so they can plan well for the future. why piblic officials dont have the right to strike? because the public/federal/state duties must always be functional. lol @ 4 day school weeks

Makes sense. If citizens are forced to pay taxes, those services should always be available.

Can't be paid with public money and strike for political reasons.
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Old 03-17-2018, 04:44 AM   #15
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Default Re: Trickle-down economic EXPOSED Again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawker
Why should corporations not have first amendment rights? They are treated as entities in law cases.

Citizens United (an organization) vs. FEC (a government entity). It's not some ridiculous thing to consider. Corporations are an association of people. If they weren't seen as a person, you wouldn't be able to sue a corporation. You'd have to sue every individual.

How about legislation without representation? Overregulation and overtaxation can cause corporations to lose profits and guess what? That means layoffs for the individuals in those corporations. IF the government wasn't so entangled in enterprise, corporations wouldn't have to try and get things to go their way.

It's just very authoritarian to me to want to silence speech because it doesn't fit your agenda. People have free will. They can choose how they like. You pointed out the issue in your post (disengagement). That's a cultural issue. I think it's shortsighted to try and correct a cultural issue with a law.

Speech, even if you pay for it, should be protected.

I'd be the first to admit I'm biased on this issue, because I'm not sure anything is more damaging to the country than the ability to buy politicians and amplify the for-and-by-the-rich reality (in turn furthering the existing disengagement, which they're very good at doing). Like I've said before on this topic, it's possible my bias has subconsciously enhanced my willingness to believe in there being a distinction, but I genuinely do feel like there's a real difference between the individual and a business when you talk about actual constitutional rights.

Truly, there is no purpose for a corporation to make a donation in its own name to anyone for any other reason. The fact that the Supreme Court ruled that not only did this not constitute corruption, but not even the APPEARANCE of corruption... not sure I've ever heard anything more off-base than that. This is pure, legalized quid pro quo, with just enough plausible deniability to maintain being technically a murky gray area. I do hate it and want it overturned, but am hopeful that a renewed interest in the political process from many younger people will spur a move to public financing of elections, or at the very least the very real threat to vote out those who don't pledge to reject big money, if no legal action is taken. We've seen some of that already on the Democrats side (in some cases to my surprise), so I do think enough of a reaction to this has taken root.
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