"Daddy (1 or 2), where do babies come from?"

[Legend of Josh]

loj .. don't let these hypocrites get to you .. they say you're hateful and call you names, then they turn around and hate on you because you don't agree with something ..

I don't see how they can be hypocrites though. If I'm the unenlightened one, that means they must be the enlightened ones, so therefore, they're not hypocrites, they're factual "spewing" next best thing to Supreme Court Justices (right?) while I'm nothing more than baby doo-doo squirts; an ignorant moron who needs to "snip" his private parts because I believe the correct and only way to reproduce (according to M.N.) is male + female (when there's a likely possibility both LD and Nanner's parents share some of the same exact views I do LMAO).

"Dad, you're not a doofus, just Legend of Josh" ... "yeah, he shares your opinion on this subject, but I just don't like him, personally"

[niko]

Too add LD - it's obvious me and you have never been on the best of terms, but really dude, I want this thread to be a respectable back-and-forth discussion without personal insults, etc.

Your last post (like all your others posts in response to me), were pushing some tongue-in-cheek "let me make my point all the while take multiple personal shots @ LOJ" ... asking me to please be snipped, bigot future kids, saying I'm talking out of my ass, defining me as a "moron" ... I'm wasting everyone's time when yet you keep reading and replying, so therefore you must be interested too, or maybe you're more interested in dissecting something I post so you find an opportunity to attempt to bash me on my own personal opinions on a rude and personal level (which is exactly how your post reads BTW).

You say I'm a homophobic person, without actually knowing me in RL, "simple" as if there's absolutely no question about it. I could make the comment you're a homosexual simple, b/c of your defense and support of homosexuality, but that would be foolish and ignorant b/c I don't know you on that level in RL.

I'm a "doofus" (name calling) and I clearly don't know anything, when one could make the argument many other people who share the same views as I do could and would entirely agree with many of the issues and points I've posted. That IMO, tells us you're basing that claim on your own personal opinion and those who think like you, but you present your comments as if they're simple fact, no questions asked.

Poorly thought out replies, and I'm not "smart enough" ... ignorant, etc. Is this your opinion or the opinion of you and others here who support homosexuality? I'd really like to see legit sources from both sides who strongly support each side make the same claims you're making... I suppose that would be more plausible versus something you're simply trying to paint the picture as fact instead of your opinion ... and I guess since LD says so, it must be true, no questions asked. Whatever LD says about LOJ, it must be fact. STFU if you feel differently.

It goes on and on. Your posts in here have been personal attack after personal attack on me personally. I've tried to keep personal attacks down, and tried to keep the discussion on the actual subject.

We both feel strongly about our own position on the subject, but I'm trying to keep things on a respectful level. Why do you feel so compelled to be such a douchebag? Why can't you just make your points without being rude? If I'm learning anything from "the other side" wouldn't it make more sense to be respectful? If I'm not being respectful to the "other side" I apologize, but I honestly am trying to be.

I was hoping I could learn something from this discussion, and others could too. What I'm coming to realize is that everyone attacks me personally on a religious or personal level. I don't feel the same as others, LOL, and that has surely pissed off some peeps. That wasn't my intention. Not at all.

That is absolutely the most full of shit comment. Your agenda is to argue and push your thoughts. You've made not even the most cursory attempt to understand anyone's POV except your own.

[SCY]

Surprised it took 73 posts for the "You're intolerant of my intolerance!" crap to come out.

Daddy + Daddy = no baby

Yet there she sits. Are you against straight parents adopting or procreating using another means besides vag-inal intercourse? This is purely anecdotal, but I'm acquainted with 2 sets of gay parents and they're fantastic. Their kids are incredibly well behaved. Depriving them of parenthood and the kids of having them as parents because someone finds it icky or they might get picked on (AKA being a kid) would be a travesty. Beyond my anecdotal evidence, it only makes sense that two people who are actually choosing to be parents, and have to jump through a number of hoops to become parents, would be pretty decent at it.

You've managed to admit that the real reason you're against gays and gay marriage is you think it's icky, and you were merely hiding behind a litany of flimsy excuses. I doubt anyone really has a problem with you thinking gays are icky. It's when you try to restrict their rights based on that feeling that creates an issue. There's plenty of things I think are icky, I don't demand legislating all of them.

[brantonli]

I'm not 100% sure why the gay marriage devolved into the 'male + male = no children' thing. So if gays get the right to marry, then suddenly we'll have a whole horde of people turning gay and not having children? Seems a rather fanciful leap of logic...

Anyway, I don't see why 2 gay dads can't explain to a kid where he/she came from. And to be honest, the younger the kid is, ANY parent will find it hard to explain where the child came from, not just gay parents.

and LOL 'confusing and dumbfounding' children? I don't know if you ever knew this as a kid, but if anything confused you, you tend to forget about it within a week

And ultimately, I think it's a bit....disappointing.....to see a person who advocates keeping children out of gay parent homes. How about asking the kid he/she wants to hmmmm? Not an option? Just cause to you, it seems sickening and whatever, doesn't mean the kid agrees with you.



Also, I must point out something. You've said throughout this thread that being gay seems to be a choice, or at least of social environment. Most people don't choose their social environment, you know that right? We don't get to choose our parents income, the household we live in, the school we go to, the classes we get put in.

[Legend of Josh]

That is absolutely the most full of shit comment. Your agenda is to argue and push your thoughts. You've made not even the most cursory attempt to understand anyone's POV except your own.

Yeah, sure. Did you not read the original OP? Time and time again in this very thread I've tried to exhibit my main goal here is to acquire a logical and rational method, answer, etc. that would work with the original scenario in the OP.

So basically I'm in here trolling?



I don't care about any of this... I'm just getting a rise out of people, huh? Respectfully, please just STFU and stop posting in the thread if you want to make the bullshit claims you're making; attacking my personal character. I haven't even been attacking you, personally, but you continue to attempt to keep calling me a hater, bigot, etc. - and it's getting tired.

[Legend of Josh]

Surprised it took 73 posts for the "You're intolerant of my intolerance!" crap to come out.



Yet there she sits. Are you against straight parents adopting or procreating using another means besides vag-inal intercourse? This is purely anecdotal, but I'm acquainted with 2 sets of gay parents and they're fantastic. Their kids are incredibly well behaved. Depriving them of parenthood and the kids of having them as parents because someone finds it icky or they might get picked on (AKA being a kid) would be a travesty. Beyond my anecdotal evidence, it only makes sense that two people who are actually choosing to be parents, and have to jump through a number of hoops to become parents, would be pretty decent at it.

You've managed to admit that the real reason you're against gays and gay marriage is you think it's icky, and you were merely hiding behind a litany of flimsy excuses. I doubt anyone really has a problem with you thinking gays are icky. It's when you try to restrict their rights based on that feeling that creates an issue. There's plenty of things I think are icky, I don't demand legislating all of them.

You're a product of the system, and it worked for you. Honestly, kudos to you and I applaud your same sex parents (I am curious though, male or female, just out of pure curiosity). I hope more results will mirror your outcome, and I'm sure there will be many of them.

I'm also sure there will be many that will not. If my thread has offended you on a personal level SCY, then I apologize, but I did not intend for any of this to offend anyone. I just feel the way I do, and it's here in discussion form. I can appreciate your thoughts and opinions on this debate well beyond others in here b/c you've experienced this first hand.

Again, sorry if I offended.

[SCY]

You're a product of the system, and it worked for you. Honestly, kudos to you and I applaud your same sex parents (I am curious though, male or female, just out of pure curiosity). I hope more results will mirror your outcome, and I'm sure there will be many of them.

I'm also sure there will be many that will not. If my thread has offended you on a personal level SCY, then I apologize, but I did not intend for any of this to offend anyone. I just feel the way I do, and it's here in discussion form. I can appreciate your thoughts and opinions on this debate well beyond others in here b/c you've experienced this first hand.

Again, sorry if I offended.

Haha. Guess you couldn't refute anything I said then. My parents were straight and divorced, not that I'd be embarrassed at all if they were gay.

[Legend of Josh]

Haha. Guess you couldn't refute anything I said then. My parents were straight and divorced, not that I'd be embarrassed at all if they were gay.

LOL, what WHAT THE FU*K?! I could have sworn your post said something to the effect that YOU were adopted by gay parents, and that you were saying you turned out fine, etc.

Did you edit your post in a timely manner where it didn't show the *edited by* at the bottom?



I swear man, your post said something about you were adopted by gay parents. Damn, maybe my vision is starting to get blurry from being up too many hours without sleep.

[niko]

Yeah, sure. Did you not read the original OP? Time and time again in this very thread I've tried to exhibit my main goal here is to acquire a logical and rational method, answer, etc. that would work with the original scenario in the OP.

So basically I'm in here trolling?



I don't care about any of this... I'm just getting a rise out of people, huh? Respectfully, please just STFU and stop posting in the thread if you want to make the bullshit claims you're making; attacking my personal character. I haven't even been attacking you, personally, but you continue to attempt to keep calling me a hater, bigot, etc. - and it's getting tired.

You've said multiple times you'd like to hear others thoughts and understand. You've also not even made a cursory attempt to thing that there might be part of this you are wrong about. Telling everyone to tell you their thoughts and immediately shooting them down, then saying "but please keep talking" is not trying to understand other's opinions.

And I'll stop posting when i feel like it. I may just post every other post for the remainder of the thread.

[Hazard]

I have a few gay friends, each one has at least one story where they got the shit beaten out of them and left to die on the ground for being gay, or their parents disowning them etc. It amazes me that people think its a choice to be gay and subjugate yourself to that sort of treatment.

Coming from a moral standpoint, would it be more acceptable to promote the type of thinking that being gay is wrong and have more violent outbursts against them or to accept them in society and give them all the rights that we ourselves enjoy? Its a question of full condemnation, which exists right now, or to live and let live.

[niko]

I have a few gay friends, each one has at least one story where they got the shit beaten out of them and left to die on the ground for being gay, or their parents disowning them etc. It amazes me that people think its a choice to be gay and subjugate yourself to that sort of treatment.

Coming from a moral standpoint, would it be more acceptable to promote the type of thinking that being gay is wrong and have more violent outbursts against them or to accept them in society and give them all the rights that we ourselves enjoy? Its a question of full condemnation, which exists right now, or to live and let live.

When i was a teacher one of the girls had real gender issues. She was basically an outcast. Treated like utter and total shit, and even those who weren't mean, stayed away as to not be in the line of fire.

OP wants to say that she chose to be how she was. She didn't choose that any more than she chose being short, or being asian, or being born to her parents. TO me, if this was all a choice, none of the behaviors would show up as early as they do.

[General]

Coming from a moral standpoint, would it be more acceptable to promote the type of thinking that being gay is wrong and have more violent outbursts against them or to accept them in society and give them all the rights that we ourselves enjoy? Its a question of full condemnation, which exists right now, or to live and let live.

Gays have all the same rights that straight people have. In California their relationships are recognized as a Domestic partnership.

[Charlie Sheen]

Hilarious!



... but honestly though, how would two men properly inform/educate/etc their child on said topic? How do they go about this without instilling deep down confusion and dumbfounding them?

i maybe wrong...this is what i read

How do they go about this without infecting them with gay?

[Lamar Doom]

funny, it only took you 5 pages of your arguments getting completely destroyed for you to flat out admit that your concerns really have nothing to do with confused 6 year olds or the future of human reproduction, really you are just a selfish and homophobic idiot.

This. Exactly what I'm saying.

You've said multiple times you'd like to hear others thoughts and understand. You've also not even made a cursory attempt to think that there might be part of this you are wrong about. Telling everyone to tell you their thoughts and immediately shooting them down, then saying "but please keep talking" is not trying to understand other's opinions.

This.

but some people are so sensitive they lose it the moment anyone isn't on the same page as them

The VAST majority of social, economic, and political issues has a grey area for me where I would have respect for someones opinion that differed from mine or is an issue that I'm conflicted about myself. This is not one. Bigotry is not something that deserves my respect and as I stated earlier these people are literally slowing down human progress.

loj .. don't let these hypocrites get to you .. they say you're hateful and call you names, then they turn around and hate on you because you don't agree with something ..

"Hate" directed towards a specific person based on their actions and hating on and attempting to oppress an entire portion of the population is not the same thing.

[Lamar Doom]

I have every right to feel the way I do.

I'm sorry if it upsets some of you, or makes you all feel I'm ignorant, narrow-minded or just flat out dumb, not with the times, etc. - I CAN'T HELP HOW I PERSONALLY FEEL ABOUT IT ... just like homosexuals CAN'T HELP how they are attracted to the opposite sex.

I disagree. I harbored some homophobia and probably would have argued against gay marriage until I was 18-ish. Life experience and a desire to be good and think about what's really important led me away from that. I still think two dudes having sex is f*cking gross, I just don't give a shit and I'm certainly not going to condemn them for it.

nobody's saying you're not entitled to your opinion. MY opinion is it makes you ignorant and a drag on humanity.