What do you have to lose if you love God?

[Josh]

The sun rises providing natural life giving light and I look at the world around it. I marvel at the splendor of the universe; the night sky above me and the stars it encompasses. I Adore love, and while I do not feel the same about death, hate or any other evil within this place, I do understand it and why it exists. I look at the good, and the bad. I wouldn't have it any other way.

I love the creative being that created it all. I call Him God. You can call him whatever you choose. I love Him, and if that means I have to lose something in order to gain the bond only Him and I share, then so be it.

[-p.tiddy-]

To answer the original question: your sanity.

I personally know people that have turned into religious zealots and talk to themselves on facebook about some god that they worship relentlessly. I'd delete them but besides their lunatic like rants they're ok people.

Yeah there are religious nut jobs but on average those without any spiritual beliefs are less"sane" and more likely to suffer from depression or commit suicide.

Spirtuality is even used to heal some mental disorders.

Believing in a higher power has shown to be better for mental health than not believing.

[Josh]

This. Also...how can you consciously decide to feel "love" for someone? Especially given the fact OP considers this a way to be "on the safe side". Dumb thread. Trolling, I know...but also just devoid of any sense at all.

Stop being so negative. Sure-shot atheist attribute right there. Someone says something about God, etc and you (the common atheist) will do anything to tear it down. God must be on your mind a lot, hard. You post in every single thread/discussion/debate there is about God, etc. It's OK, I'm guilty of it too. God has mind-raped the both of us.

Let me ask you this... since you don't believe in God, why do you find your way into every single God discussion? You find all this "God stuff" very interesting. Now why would someone spend so much time on something they entirely don't believe in?



You call things such as this thread, dumb or trolling but if it weren't for these threads you'd have little to do. The short while I've known you or seen you post any or damn near all of it has been God bashing. I think it's a bit obvious, like many atheists, you say you don't believe in God, but you're endlessly searching for validation of there being no God at all. You simply just won't quit until God has been proven to not exist.

Until then, you'll keep searching. You viewing and posting in these types of threads is a small but crucial means of you validating (or just feeling better / more confident). You think showing off some false sense of mental prowess as you discredit God or the existence of Him will somehow bring you one inch closer to your goal. You don't think of this in your mind on a conscience level, but if you really, really think about it, that's exactly what's going on.

You can reply in here and deny it all you want to, but it's obvious.

[Josh]

most people use religion to one up people

Most people use atheism to one up people.

[K Xerxes]

They all recognize that they worship the God of Abraham. It would be pretty hard to argue that they worship different gods, given that they all share the old testament.

Take Christians and Muslims.

Muslims believe that the Gospels was once the word of God but has been changed for various reasons (editing, translation etc etc). Thus now it's not the absolute word of God, but the scripture still represents the teachings of the same God.

Christianity came first, so it would seem as if Islam is just a copy of Christianity (and Judaism) with major differences inserted for whatever reason. It was never the same. Hell, some Christians even believe that Islam is the work of the devil, and that Muslims are worshipping the devil.

See the difference?

Yeah there are religious nut jobs but on average those without any spiritual beliefs are less"sane" and more likely to suffer from depression or commit suicide.

Spirtuality is even used to heal some mental disorders.

Believing in a higher power has shown to be better for mental health than not believing.

Where is the evidence for this bullshit?

[miller-time]

Where is the evidence for this bullshit?

I think it is one of those correlation causation things. It isn't the religious belief itself that helps but rather the sense of belonging and community that comes along with it.

[K Xerxes]

I think it is one of those correlation causation things. It isn't the religious belief itself that helps but rather the sense of belonging and community that comes along with it.

For sure, but I'd like to see some solid evidence that:

1) Those without any spiritual beliefs are more likely to suffer from depression or commit suicide.

2) Spirtuality can heal some mental disorders.

3) Believing in a higher power has shown to be better for mental health than not believing.

First of all.

[dr.hee]

I think it is one of those correlation causation things. It isn't the religious belief itself that helps but rather the sense of belonging and community that comes along with it.

There's not too much research on the variables that mediate the relationship between religiosity and mental health. But I like your idea of a sense of belonging having a positive influence. What I don't know is if there are studies comparing affiliation with a religious community ( e.g. going to church regularly) and other social activities regarding their positive influence on stuff like clinical depression and so on.

I could also imagine rigidly following certain religious doctrines having a positive impact. Say you're a bit on the conservative/fundamentalist side and really take your holy book literally. Makes sense to me that certain rules are more persuasive when you literally think there's a bearded dude above you who'll punish you for the tiniest shit. Could be one of the advantages of believing the most outlandish stuff...you won't do some unhealthy things because of peer pressure and maybe just fear of punishment from sky daddy.

[Josh]

For sure, but I'd like to see some solid evidence that:

1) Those without any spiritual beliefs are more likely to suffer from depression or commit suicide.

2) Spirtuality can heal some mental disorders.

3) Believing in a higher power has shown to be better for mental health than not believing.

First of all.

"Prove this!" ... "Prove that!"

Gosh, can't you just be a good little boi and believe in magic like the rest of normal society? If someone had a neat shinny piece of paper that said if you jumped off the Empire State Building you'd live you'd probably be the first one to take the plunge.

You don't think spirituality in some cases heals or corrects some mental disorders? Seriously? Sure it's not the end all be all for everyone's mental disorder, but for some it works. Please, don't be so shallow minded you need some mental health text book to tell you that in writing before you'll believe it.

[Josh]

Show me proof there's a gay gene and that homosexuals have no personal choice in their sexual orientation.

[Inactive]

Take Christians and Muslims.

Muslims believe that the Gospels was once the word of God but has been changed for various reasons (editing, translation etc etc). Thus now it's not the absolute word of God, but the scripture still represents the teachings of the same God.

Christians believe pretty much the same thing about the old testament.

Christianity came first, so it would seem as if Islam is just a copy of Christianity (and Judaism) with major differences inserted for whatever reason. It was never the same. Hell, some Christians even believe that Islam is the work of the devil, and that Muslims are worshipping the devil.

See the difference?

Christians and Jews consider Muhammed to be a false prophet. Muslims consider Jesus to be a prophet, but not an incarnation of God. Jews consider Jesus to be either a prophet, or a false prophet, rather than the messiah, or an incarnation of God.

But they all recognize that the God to whom those (false)prophets are purporting to speak is YHWH. And they all revere the old testament patriarchs, and prophets.

[Is He Ill]

Yeah there are religious nut jobs but on average those without any spiritual beliefs are less"sane" and more likely to suffer from depression or commit suicide.

Spirtuality is even used to heal some mental disorders.

Believing in a higher power has shown to be better for mental health than not believing.

I can see that. I don't know if those statements are backed by solid evidence, but, in my experience, the belief in a higher power definitely provides hope for certain people. That said, no matter how hard I try, I would never be able to convince myself that there is a higher power that I can communicate with.

[pauk]

Take Christians and Muslims.

Muslims believe that the Gospels was once the word of God but has been changed for various reasons (editing, translation etc etc). Thus now it's not the absolute word of God, but the scripture still represents the teachings of the same God.

Christianity came first, so it would seem as if Islam is just a copy of Christianity (and Judaism) with major differences inserted for whatever reason. It was never the same. Hell, some Christians even believe that Islam is the work of the devil, and that Muslims are worshipping the devil.

See the difference?

Where is the evidence for this bullshit?

Interesting, yea, but all muslims today have roots to either christianity or judaism or polytheism. Depending on where you are coming from... arabs/middle-easterns for example were entirely polytheistic or christians/jewish before Islam, there are still very many arabic christians or even arabic christian countries in middle-east like Syria, Lebanon and Palestine somewhat.... once Islam came it spread into other parts of the world, Islam here in Balkan for example we got it i believe from the turks/ottomans, we were 100% christians or somewhat agnostic before that as all slavs were/are, not even that long time ago actually... thats why in Balkan Islam is extremly different from the middle-east due to the culture/past, you wouldnt be able to see a difference between a christian/muslim, i mean the women are not covered and so on (scarf/"hijab" is actually a cultural thing, just like christians in mexico run around with sombreros lol)...

[gigantes]

There's not too much research on the variables that mediate the relationship between religiosity and mental health. But I like your idea of a sense of belonging having a positive influence. What I don't know is if there are studies comparing affiliation with a religious community ( e.g. going to church regularly) and other social activities regarding their positive influence on stuff like clinical depression and so on.

I could also imagine rigidly following certain religious doctrines having a positive impact. Say you're a bit on the conservative/fundamentalist side and really take your holy book literally. Makes sense to me that certain rules are more persuasive when you literally think there's a bearded dude above you who'll punish you for the tiniest shit. Could be one of the advantages of believing the most outlandish stuff...you won't do some unhealthy things because of peer pressure and maybe just fear of punishment from sky daddy.

good thoughts.

i think much of what you say can be articulated / supplemented / completed via pondering what functions we HSS's evolved to perform best.

now of course, very few do this... often preferring to hammer themselves on the rocks of the technology of civilisation... competing with people who've locked themselves in to boxes... often academically for a separate set of reasons.

but the question remains-- what functions did our current minds and bodies evolve to perform? and is such in any conflict with modern civ?

[K Xerxes]

Christians believe pretty much the same thing about the old testament.
Christians and Jews consider Muhammed to be a false prophet. Muslims consider Jesus to be a prophet, but not an incarnation of God. Jews consider Jesus to be either a prophet, or a false prophet, rather than the messiah, or an incarnation of God.

But they all recognize that the God to whom those (false)prophets are purporting to speak is YHWH. And they all revere the old testament patriarchs, and prophets.

I see where you're coming from here. Having said that, it hardly makes a difference to my initial point that Pascal's Wager is rubbish. Nor does it take into account the possibility that God may want his believers to follow exact commandments rather than just believing in him.

"Prove this!" ... "Prove that!"

Gosh, can't you just be a good little boi and believe in magic like the rest of normal society? If someone had a neat shinny piece of paper that said if you jumped off the Empire State Building you'd live you'd probably be the first one to take the plunge.

You don't think spirituality in some cases heals or corrects some mental disorders? Seriously? Sure it's not the end all be all for everyone's mental disorder, but for some it works. Please, don't be so shallow minded you need some mental health text book to tell you that in writing before you'll believe it.

I come from a scientific (medical) background and have looked into mental health quite a bit. While it is true that there is a bunch of stuff we don't understand about mental health (the brain & nervous system is possibly the most complicated thing... in the universe), that doesn't mean we chalk it up to Goddidit. It's far more plausible that there is a placebo effect to spirituality (if there is any proven correlation at all), but that doesn't mean that it is right. If deluding yourself that there is something out there makes you feel better, go for it.

Show me proof there's a gay gene and that homosexuals have no personal choice in their sexual orientation.

So much wrong in only one sentence...

I can't be bothered to explain why proof does not and cannot exist in science, so I'll assume you mean 'evidence' here.

No credible scientist espouses the idea of a 'gay gene'. Genetics rarely works on the basis of Mendellian concepts (i.e. one gene for one phenotype), even though that's probably what you learnt at school. The genetic basis for a phenotype will be polygenic... and even then, you're probably going to get a mix of environment and genetics (as a side note on this, look up epigenetics). Sexuality probably works in the same way. It's probably worth considering sexual orientation as a scale with multiple different genes and other environmental factors moving the slider up and down slightly.

And the reason scientists haven't found specific genes for homosexuality is because it's almost ****ing impossible to pinpoint specific genes. One may mask the other, or influence the other through a series of intermediates etc etc.