Exum, 23, is averaging 7.6 points, 2.1 assists and 1.6 rebounds during his fifth season in Utah as a valuable role player, while Simmons has emerged as a potential franchise cornerstone alongside Joel Embiid in Philly. Simmons is putting up 14.5 points, 9.1 rebounds and 7.6 assists for a 9-7 Sixers squad.
That right there tells you the problem with the Jazz. If he's valuable you suck! His value has been that he doesn't suck as bad as Rubio.
In addition to Simmons and Exum, other Aussies around the league on opening night included: Exum’s teammate Joe Ingles (Jazz); Jonah Bolden (Philadelphia); Aron Baynes (Boston); Ryan Broekhoff (Dallas); Matthew Dellavedova (Milwaukee); Kyrie Irving (Celtics) and Patty Mills (San Antonio).
“Of course, they’re more ready and they watch more tape and we play the same system as we did last year and they pay more attention,” Rubio said. “But the system works, and we know but we have to do it 100 percent.”
Don't have to watch much tape to know that you can leave Rubio, Exum and Favors all open and concentrate on others.
Meanwhile Utah has leaned hard into continuity. It’s unknown whether Quin Snyder will use this game as an opportunity to test Utah with a different lineup. Trotting out the struggling Ricky Rubio to guard JJ Redick and Derrick Favors to guard Ben Simmons feels like suicide. Meanwhile, moving Jae Crowder and someone else to the starting lineup might not be of much help to a Utah Jazz team that could still be reeling from the effects of the brutal loss against Dallas.
You didn't watch the team last year? I'd be shocked if he made the obvious changes. He's smarter than you
The Derrick Favors and Rudy Gobert pairing just doesn’t work and there is enough sample size to know this.
It works ok. It certainly doesn't work like it does with others in the game though
Dante Exum hasn’t made the leap that many had hoped.
Grayson Allen does not look ready for any minutes.
He's had his moments and they could use his shooting. Send him to the G-league and I can see him helping later on in the year
Royce O’Neale looks like he has regressed.
I'd give him more minutes. He'll be fine. He looked good for a couple games when he started.
Raul Neto - Rehab - OUT
Didn't play for the Stars. Is he in Philly? He needs to replace Allen on the active roster and Rubio and Exum in the line-up along with Thabo. That would help. When Ricky sucked last year Neto was great. He's always been better than Burke and Exum. Too bad he lacks length!
Rubio’s gift of being a starter is most likely from the fact that Exum hasn’t been able to capitalize recently in any game on the starter’s woeful play and Rubio being such a key cog last year.
No excuse. Ingles and Mitchell can handle the ball along with Neto any day I assume.
Unfortunately, while Utah keeps pressing on with Rubio like the lost boys searching for young Peter Pan in an old man’s body, Rubio is getting run off the floor. Quin Snyder hasn’t been left with any replacement either. Burks has somewhat regressed to old Burks the last few games. Exum is still potential incarnate. Raul Neto is still rehabbing. Barring a very surprising trade, Utah is in it for the long haul with Rubio unless Quin finally throws in the towel and goes with long term potential (Exum) over regressing back to the mean (Rubio).
Burks is one of their best players. He deserves to take Ricky's spot in the line-up.
The sinking offense has been forcing Rudy Gobert and Donovan Mitchell to carry even more of the load. Joe Ingles is picking up some of the slack, but is definitely operating FAR outside his designated role. Utah needs someone—anyone—to play to their expected abilities outside of Utah’s dependable core of Mitchell, Ingles, and Gobert. If this game is yet another disappointing and lethargic loss, the fan base of Utah will get restless. Even more so, the front office of Utah might start reaching for the rolodex.
Crowder is that guy. Burks has been good. Favors is good in the backup center role. Niang needs more run. So does O'Neale. Thabo and Neto. That's my rotation until they trade the crap away for something better. It will never happen of course though
I hope that Q has Favors guard Embiid and Gobert guard Simmons. It will allow Gobert to be near the paint all night and just drop drop drop drop drop to clog the lane. And Favs will just have to play up on Embiid who spends a lot of time away from the hoop with dho’s for Redick.
Quin is too smart for the obvious. Do you know how many degrees the guy has?
I don't like the Gobert on Simmons Idea
Simmons can’t shoot. Agreed.
But he moves in space really well and has really good vision. Dropping Gobert back gives Simmons a running start to slash into the paint; so he can get to the rim, where he’s quite effective at scoring, or he can drive-and-pass when help defenders collapse. I like neither of those options.
Posted by l3uddyh011y on Nov 16, 2018 | 2:52 PM
I say bring it on. I wasn't impressed with him last year against the Jazz. Guys who's games are getting to the rim and have no shot struggle against Gobert.
Re: 2018-19 regular season. Time to live up to the hype!
People are getting lost in the noise
Our offense is doing exactly what it’s supposed to do: generating open 3s and looks at the rim. We have been missing open 3s, layups, and free throws at an inordinate rate. That’s exactly
the kind of statistical noise that regresses to the mean. Yeah it’s frustrating to watch, and there’s some psychological snowball effect that plays a role, but you play through the noise. The answer is not to substitute the highest-efficiency plays because of a bad conversion stretch. The answer is not to start chucking 19 footers because "hey let’s try the midrange." The threes the Jazz are getting are not contested. The right answer is you keep shooting and shooting and shooting. Layups will go in. Free throws will go in. Threes will go in. At least at a long-term average rate. To the extent our conversion rates are below average, it’s not systemic.
Defense is a different story, but also subject to some noise. Teams are making the same shots they missed last season. Same distance, same level of pressure. They just happen to be going in. Again – not necessarily systemic or trend worthy. We obviously have rule changes to adjust to, and that’s proving more difficult than expected. But we’re still decidedly average. Not a disaster.
Posted by Korumbian on Nov 16, 2018 | 3:12 PM
The problem is it doesn't matter how many open 3's you generate if you have non shooters firing them. They also have multiple guys that can't finish. Replace the 3 guys that kill them with better shooters and your analysis makes sense. Thabo and Neto were 2 of their best shooters. Niang shot better than Ingles or anyone in the NBA last year with the Stars. Burks has shot well from 3 at times at least in his career.
If your offense generates open looks for a 28% 3pt shooter is that a good offense?
Posted by TheRealDennisLindsey on Nov 16, 2018 | 3:14 PM
Someone gets it. I think it's funny that Bolerjack always says that was a good look and it's Ricky, Exum or Favors bricking it. Is the offense generating those looks or is the defense letting them have those looks?
The statistically rational way to look at it
Is to avoid or severely discount the noise of a recent stretch (especially one that’s just a month) and put more stock in the most recent full-season averages and, to a lesser extent, career marks.
Rubio shot 35% last season on all threes. Mitchell 34%. Crowder 32%. Ingles 44%. Burks 33%. Royce 35%. The team as a whole shot 36%. The percentage on wide-open threes was closer to 40%.
Professional basketball players do not inherently regress season-to-season like this, which indicates that the poor shooting is a fluke, not a trend. In that context, the answer is to keep the green light.
Posted by Korumbian on Nov 16, 2018 | 3:27 PM
Those aren't good nymbers outside Ingles though. I think Mitchell will be a great shooter. Burks has been before as has Crowder. I think Royce can be. He seems to lack confidence out there just like the two brickers
I will actually go out on a limb
and say that our record to end the year this season will be close to the same.
The schedule is so ridiculously front-loaded through mid-January that almost every "easy" game on the schedule will happen in the last three months of the year.
Posted by Korumbian on Nov 16, 2018 | 3:15 PM
Not unless they make changes. Crowder was big last year. Getting rid of Johnson and Hood was big. Getting rid of Rubio, Exum(good luck), and Favors and maybe the guys Snyder doesn't like and you may be right. I'm not counting on it. I see them bringing back Rubio and Favors next year as ridicilous as that it.
Is not the record
It’s the bad defense that is worrisome. Part of that is shots not falling, but even the team admits the defense has fallen off. Rule change can’t account for the massive drop off when other top teams from last year are doing fine.
I’m not ready to call for a trade quite yet, but I am getting there. These next three games will be telling. If we bounce back and look good, carry on. If not, I think DL should stay seriously considering trades.
Plus, I doubt we’ve got a shot at Middleton or Harris. A trade may be the only way to get the third star we need to contend
Posted by Bebop on Nov 16, 2018 | 3:23 PM
The defense has looked good at times. They haven't put it all together. Ricky not guarding anyone doesn't help matters and Favors needs to be near the rim not on the perimeter
Miami offered Olynyk as part of trade for Butler.
Olynyk is another player we should look at.
Posted by TheRealDennisLindsey on Nov 16, 2018 | 3:24 PM
Makes a lot of money and not known for d or length I don't believe. Try again
This year, Utah has the tough schedule, but are only integrating one new player: Grayson Allen. Georges Niang was around the team as a two way player last year. The team has a franchise best in continuity percentage—only losing Jonas Jerebko in the offseason. The team had all offseason to work together. Rubio even stayed in Utah to work on his game. The only significant injuries this Jazz team has dealt with is Raul Neto. That’s it.
Neto's injury would actually be significant if we thought he'd have actually played. Not sure he would have even gotten Allen's minutes since he didn't attend Duke
These teams are going to be the teams Utah faces—if they make it there—in the playoffs. Utah has a glaring issue at point guard. Teams are not defending Rubio at all as he’s struggling at the rim and beyond the arc. Rubio not being a threat from long range would be completely okay if there weren’t times that he looks completely lost on the defensive end.
Someone finally noticed there was a Matador on the defensive side!
Teams are hanging off of Exum as he’s only a threat at the rim. Teams are using that extra defender to make life more difficult for Donovan Mitchell, Joe Ingles, and Rudy Gobert.
If only Exum was a threat at the rim. At least he's not turning it over as much!
Utah’s continuity plan has undone last season’s success
This isn’t the first time the franchise has tried continuity, and it didn’t work last time either
When didn't they? It's not usually been to the degree it was last year but other than year Stockton retired. things haven't changed much since at least the early 80's!
With the framework already set after the mid-season trade and ensuing late-season dominance, Dennis Lindsey and Quin Snyder did very little in the offseason. Why would they? Practically everything was set in place. The team would add a piece in the draft to give them more depth and improve from within. And so, the Utah Jazz entered the following regular season with minimal roster changes.
Everything but spacing. Maybe the most important thing in today's game!
What went wrong?
Do you remember the 2015-16 season? Maybe, maybe not. It ended unceremoniously with a 40-42 record and a fourth straight season missing the playoffs.
What went wrong was that Rudy didn't miss enough games for them to lose more. That was a different situation. They stuck with the same team despite their great finish that year. I saw it as tanking. Burke and rookie Neto and no veteran pg? Pleiss instead of an NBA player?
The conservative approach isn’t inherently bad, but it has its fair share of negative side effects. The positive is that usually, teams don’t implode. In fact, the 2015-16 Jazz had a better record than the previous season despite some injury trouble with Rudy Gobert. And even with Utah’s current dilemma, they probably won’t be significantly worse than last season.
The only reason they had a better record is because they were one of the worst teams in the league to Lindsey's delight until Rudy made them good in December. Unfortunately he didn't start until Feb/ when Kanter was finally traded! The next year Rudy started and Neto was better than Burke and Exum and than Mack was great to end the year when they finally decided though all too late that they weren't tanking anymore.
Perhaps Lindsey knows this and is playing the long game, waiting for the offseason. After all, a couple of well-timed free agent scores and a solid draft pick can do wonders for a franchise like the Utah Jazz. Maybe this past offseason just wasn’t the right time and the best potential pick-ups will become available in the next round of free agency. But if Lindsey and Snyder intend to ride the present iteration of Jazz as long as possibly, it will only end poorly.
Wastin away another year of the Gobert/ Mitchell teaming.
Who would have ever guessed Jonas Jerebko was the heart and soul of this team last year?
Posted by IAMCAKEMAN on Nov 16, 2018 | 8:56 AM
He was a not better than Snyder though he was. Another shooter! Coincidence?
Favs, our best trade piece, can’t be moved until December since he just signed a new deal (same with exum, though while I am still high on him, I doubt he has much value).
Who would want Ricky? Maybe the suns since they are so desperate for a pg? But I doubt they’d send back Warren or Bridges since they need shooting too, and that still wouldn’t solve our pg problem.
It takes two to tango and I’m sure DL is making a few calls but I doubt a good deal is out there right now. There’s a reason why there is so much movement at the deadline : multiple teams are under pressure to improve and the deadline forces them to get it done quickly.
Posted by Bebop on Nov 16, 2018 | 10:08 AM
The best trade asset makes 18 million. Good luck with one! Rubio makes 14! Good luck with that one too! Neto, Thabo, Udoh and Burks are probably the guys you could move. Exum?
In my opinion
And I have stated it before. Signing Favors and Exum to such large contracts was a mistake.
First of all Favors is only getting around 20min a night. He also doesn’t stretch the floor at all. He is a throwback PF which would be great 15yrs ago.
Luckily it’s only a 2yr deal but it’s 16.9 mil a season. Way too much for what he brings. We should have either
A. Signed Julius Randle for the 8 mil a year. He is also a throwback PF but very productive in scoring.
B. Traded for Nikola Mirotic, basically a 1st round pick could have had him. He was perfect for our offense.
Signing Exum was a mistake because he has never shown that he can be a productive guard in the NBA. The expectations for him were unattainable and his injuries just derailed any progress he has made.
9.6 mil for 17 minutes of unproductive play. We get this for 3 seasons atleast.
What we should have done.
A. Signed Tyreke Evans for 1yr 12mil he can play multiple positions including PG.
B. Signed a couple free agent veterans to one year contracts and hope to land a good one. Or just saved the cap room for later transactions.
Posted by Matt_Grbac on Nov 16, 2018 | 1:15 PM
Favors as anything but the back-up center was a mistake. Udoh and Bradley should have been fighting for the back-up spot. Exum would have made sense on 1 guaranteed year, partial or non guaranteed is what he has earned at best. He is getting better. The problem is he's not good enough for the rotation and needs to be developing in another league! Thabo and Neto made little sense either. Coach didn't want them last year! Burks too though who knows what the trade market was? Too me no matter who replaced them just having them off the team and having new guys who don't suck and who Snyder might have liked better than those that he didn't would have been better no matter the results. They needed more shooting and you could argue that they got that with Allen and Niang I guess?
Making a trade right now would be selling low. Especially on Rubio. He will get better. He’s proven it year in and year out.
I’m not sure what you’ve seen out of Quin and DL that makes you so worried about our direction, but everything I’ve seen from them is promising. Until they prove otherwise, I am going to relax and enjoy our team.
If we aren’t competing for home court advantage by Feb/March and haven’t made any kind of roster moves, then it could be time to panic. But we are 14 games in. No need to get too worked up.
Posted by MoChuk on Nov 16, 2018 | 3:41 PM
Good Ricky is hard to watch! Without getting lucky with Gobert at number 27 where would Lindsey and Snyder and the Jazz be? Seriously?
Before the season started, the Utah Jazz were considered a lock to finish top four in the Western Conference, and many prognosticators even thought they could surpass the Rockets and finish second. Theoretically, Utah seemed likely to rip out of the gates because of continuity, some internal improvement from their best player in his second season, and the return of a stalwart defense that allowed the second-fewest points per possession last year. Why couldn’t the same group that finished last season on a 29-6 hot streak just run it back a year later?
Hard to take anyone seriously when they call anyone but Gobert their best player