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Old 08-17-2008, 05:30 PM   #91
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Default Re: 1997 Chicago Bulls ( Big Three) vs. 1997 Houston Rockets ( Big Three)

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Originally Posted by 97 bulls
i see how your thinking. but your question is not really a fair one. because bowen is a great ON THE BALL DEFENDER. he not a great help defender, rebounder, shot blocker etc. he cant control a game with his defense. then factor in that he has duncan backing him up. a better question to you would be bill russel who was a marginal scorer, and great defender or anthony. who is a great scorer and at best a marginal defender.

LOL, no offense but is this a joke? A better question would be to compare Carmelo Anthony, a great scorer, to freaking Bill Russell, arguably the greatest defensive player of all-time? What kind of fair comparison is that? I used Melo cause he's considered a top 5 scorer in this league and he's not a good defender, and Bowen cause he's considered a top 5 defender in this league and he's not a good scorer. There both about equal when it comes to their specialty. Plain and simple. The fact that you have to go all the way back to the 60s and take the greatest defender of all-time to compare to Melo proves my point.
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Old 08-17-2008, 05:48 PM   #92
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Default Re: 1997 Chicago Bulls ( Big Three) vs. 1997 Houston Rockets ( Big Three)

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Yeah, clearly Pippen is as good as Bird and Magic. My a$$...

Hey dawg, I'm just relaying the message, if you have an issue, take it up with Michael Jordan. I'm sure he'd have a few things to say.
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Old 08-17-2008, 05:56 PM   #93
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Default Re: 1997 Chicago Bulls ( Big Three) vs. 1997 Houston Rockets ( Big Three)

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So what? Great offensive players do not only consist of scoring champions. All championship teams were great offensive teams. On every one of those teams you had 1 guy who can go off on any night, or you had a combo of 2 or 3 that could give equal output. And I've said it doesn't work with just one aspect being strong, both offense and defense needs to be strong and balanced. Let me ask you, if you were starting off a team, who would you draft first, Carmelo Anthony or Bruce Bowen?

Again I would disagree with that, but it depends on your defenition of great.

Obviously I'd take Carmelo, this is a stupid comparison though, because Bowen is a great system defender. And the difference in impact both have is pretty wide.

How about this, if I were a GM would I take Tim Duncan's defense, or his offense? I would take his defense. He is good at both, but having an anchor defender like Duncan on your team puts you in a position to threaten for the title. So long as there are decent scorers on the team it can compete night in and night out.

Defense is easier to keep constant than offense. So a defensive player is a better key. Like you said those teams all had a guy who go off at any time, but you never knew when that time was. If you have a strong defense, it plays well all the time.
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Old 08-17-2008, 06:22 PM   #94
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Default Re: 1997 Chicago Bulls ( Big Three) vs. 1997 Houston Rockets ( Big Three)

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LOL, no offense but is this a joke? A better question would be to compare Carmelo Anthony, a great scorer, to freaking Bill Russell, arguably the greatest defensive player of all-time? What kind of fair comparison is that? I used Melo cause he's considered a top 5 scorer in this league and he's not a good defender, and Bowen cause he's considered a top 5 defender in this league and he's not a good scorer. There both about equal when it comes to their specialty. Plain and simple. The fact that you have to go all the way back to the 60s and take the greatest defender of all-time to compare to Melo proves my point.
no, it proves my point. there alot of great scorers that have come through the league, that couldnt play defense. really i think my comparison is better because melo, while not on the level of russel is a franchise player, like russel. while bowen, bowen is a great roleplayer. i would compare bowen to players like vinny "microwave" johnson, steve kerr etc.
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Old 08-17-2008, 06:27 PM   #95
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Default Re: 1997 Chicago Bulls ( Big Three) vs. 1997 Houston Rockets ( Big Three)

Anyways, the Bulls would mop the floor with these Rockets. The game would be in hand by halftime.
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Old 08-17-2008, 07:13 PM   #96
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Default Re: 1997 Chicago Bulls ( Big Three) vs. 1997 Houston Rockets ( Big Three)

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Originally Posted by Timmy D for MVP
Obviously I'd take Carmelo, this is a stupid comparison though, because Bowen is a great system defender. And the difference in impact both have is pretty wide.

Ok well Steve Nash is considered by many to be a system offensive player considering how much better he was in Phoenix then Dallas. So how about Nash or Bowen? I get what you're saying though. How about Dikembe or Melo? Cause I would still take Melo.

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Originally Posted by Timmy D for MVP
How about this, if I were a GM would I take Tim Duncan's defense, or his offense? I would take his defense. He is good at both, but having an anchor defender like Duncan on your team puts you in a position to threaten for the title. So long as there are decent scorers on the team it can compete night in and night out.

Ok but that would change with different players. How about Jordan's offense or defense? Or Wilt's offense or defense? I would take both their offense and I don't think there needs to be an explanation.

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Originally Posted by Timmy D for MVP
Defense is easier to keep constant than offense. So a defensive player is a better key. Like you said those teams all had a guy who go off at any time, but you never knew when that time was. If you have a strong defense, it plays well all the time.

I'll agree that a defense is easier to keep constant, but I don't think its cause of one key defensive player. And thats the difference IMO. You can literally have one player carry a team offensively and still win a game, but one player can't carry a team defensively and still win a game at least not nearly as much.
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Old 08-17-2008, 07:19 PM   #97
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Default Re: 1997 Chicago Bulls ( Big Three) vs. 1997 Houston Rockets ( Big Three)

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Originally Posted by 97 bulls
no, it proves my point. there alot of great scorers that have come through the league, that couldnt play defense. really i think my comparison is better because melo, while not on the level of russel is a franchise player, like russel. while bowen, bowen is a great roleplayer. i would compare bowen to players like vinny "microwave" johnson, steve kerr etc.

No it doesn't prove your point. It shows that there has rarely been any great defensive players that were also franchise players. The reason for that is probably because they usually don't have as much of an impact as an equally great offensive player. And when I mean great defensive players, I don't mean players like Duncan, Jordan, Wilt, or Hakeem. I mean players that were almost strictly great due to defense. You don't need to use Bowen, you could also use Ben Wallace, Dikembe Mutombo, or Dennis Rodman. And if I were starting a franchise and had to choose between Melo or one of those guys, I would still take Melo.
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Old 08-17-2008, 07:36 PM   #98
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Default Re: 1997 Chicago Bulls ( Big Three) vs. 1997 Houston Rockets ( Big Three)

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Originally Posted by guy
No it doesn't prove your point. It shows that there has rarely been any great defensive players that were also franchise players. The reason for that is probably because they usually don't have as much of an impact as an equally great offensive player. And when I mean great defensive players, I don't mean players like Duncan, Jordan, Wilt, or Hakeem. I mean players that were almost strictly great due to defense. You don't need to use Bowen, you could also use Ben Wallace, Dikembe Mutombo, or Dennis Rodman. And if I were starting a franchise and had to choose between Melo or one of those guys, I would still take Melo.
thats funny, cuz every player you mentioned has done save for mutombo, has won nba titles. and in the end thats all that matters. and melo was on a great team this year. on paper anyway.
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Old 08-17-2008, 07:53 PM   #99
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Default Re: 1997 Chicago Bulls ( Big Three) vs. 1997 Houston Rockets ( Big Three)

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Originally Posted by 97 bulls
thats funny, cuz every player you mentioned has done save for mutombo, has won nba titles. and in the end thats all that matters. and melo was on a great team this year. on paper anyway.

Are you trying to compare the roles of Ben Wallace and Dennis Rodman on those championship teams to Melo on the Nuggets? Neither one of those guys were franchise players. No GM in their right mind would build a team around Rodman or Wallace instead of Melo.
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Old 04-28-2012, 03:43 AM   #100
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Default Re: 1997 Chicago Bulls ( Big Three) vs. 1997 Houston Rockets ( Big Three)

b.u.m.p
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Old 04-28-2012, 03:45 AM   #101
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Default Re: 1997 Chicago Bulls ( Big Three) vs. 1997 Houston Rockets ( Big Three)

Haha I made this thread two stars
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Old 04-28-2012, 04:56 AM   #102
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Default Re: 1997 Chicago Bulls ( Big Three) vs. 1997 Houston Rockets ( Big Three)

This conversation was had almost 4 years ago. And anthony still has no championship.

I also remember having a conversation with Guy about Brian Williams. And he stated that williams had little to no contribution to the Bulls championship. If you exclude the first 6 games of the 97 playoffs, williams avg 9/5 on 50% shooting in 25 min along with solid defense and toughness. He played a huge roll in the bulls title run. The Bulls would've ate the Rockets alive.
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