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Old 03-08-2018, 09:11 AM   #16
pauk
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Default Re: Is Lebron up there in the best player of all time?

Yes... when you put it like that (basketball ability), he is up there with Jordan, different games tho... im sure most would prefer Jordan tho as he was a smaller more nimble guy with more of a score first mentality = more aesthetically pleasing and ofcourse nostalgia as most of us grew up with him...

Lets just say they are the best at their position...

PG - Magic
SG - Jordan
SF - Lebron
PF - Duncan (kinda couldnt enjoy his game tho, so simple stuff, but so effective, big guys are kinda like that... liked KG more, who has a case here)
C - Hakeem

Are overall the most talented players ive seen at each position.

Last edited by pauk : 03-08-2018 at 09:21 AM.
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Old 03-08-2018, 10:00 AM   #17
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Default Re: Is Lebron up there in the best player of all time?

I guess the literally thousands of other threads on this subject weren't sufficient enough for OP
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Old 03-08-2018, 10:41 AM   #18
3ball
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Default Re: Is Lebron up there in the best player of all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aj1987
LeBron won a ring with Wade averaging 15 PPG in the PO's. The lowest Pippen ever averaged was 17 PPG and that couple with DPOY level defense.
Jordan won with his pf getting 4/8 for the entire 97' playoffs

He won in 98' with his pf getting 4/8 in the Finals, while pippen got 15 ppg on 41%, including 6 & 8 pts in the last 2 games

He won in 96', with piopen gettin 15 ppg on 34% in Finals

And he 3-peated in 1991-1993 without a big 3 superteam of perrennial all-stars..

He also went 6/6 without a 7th game, so you knoe he's REALLY 6/6 caliber.. Whereas lebron is a lucky bounce away from 2/8, and a bounce away from 1/8 since the 16' finals came down to 1 possession.. So we dont even know if he's 3/8 caliber because he needed luck to win 2 rings
.

Last edited by 3ball : 03-08-2018 at 10:47 AM.
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Old 03-08-2018, 10:48 AM   #19
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Default Re: Is Lebron up there in the best player of all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ball
Jordan won with his pf getting 4/8 for the entire 97' playoffs

He won in 98' with his pf getting 4/8 in the Finals, while pippen got 15 ppg on 41%, including 6 & 8 pts in the last 2 games

He won in 96', with piopen gettin 15 ppg on 34%

And he 3-peated in 1991-1993 without a big 3 superteam of perrennial all-stars..
Well, that's because MJ hogging the ball completely cratered their stats. Also, probably because he went up against shit competition compared to LeBron? Yep. That's it.

LeBron is the GOAT. Deal with it.
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Old 03-08-2018, 11:01 AM   #20
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Default Re: Is Lebron up there in the best player of all time?

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Originally Posted by iamgine
Perhaps his resume lacks some accomplishment to make him the greatest player of all time.

But when you consistently watch him play, does he strike you as the best of all time, on par with the likes of MJ?

No, MJ was on a whole different level all by himself. It's like Gretzky in hockey.
There's Wayne and then there's everyone else that ever played. I get a good laugh every time Lebron is even mentioned in the same breath as the GOAT MJ. Nothing comes out of his stans other than apologies for 5 finals losses.
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Old 03-08-2018, 11:11 AM   #21
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Default Re: Is Lebron up there in the best player of all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pauk
Yes... when you put it like that (basketball ability), he is up there with Jordan, different games tho... im sure most would prefer Jordan tho as he was a smaller more nimble guy with more of a score first mentality = more aesthetically pleasing and ofcourse nostalgia as most of us grew up with him...

Lets just say they are the best at their position...

PG - Magic
SG - Jordan
SF - Lebron
PF - Duncan (kinda couldnt enjoy his game tho, so simple stuff, but so effective, big guys are kinda like that... liked KG more, who has a case here)
C - Hakeem

Are overall the most talented players ive seen at each position.

As great Hakeem was, I rated Shaq a little higher in GOAT list. They are closed but I would take Shaq (from the players I have seen) over Hakeem.

I agree with you that there is a little bit of nostalgia, but MJ was not my favourite player growing up. For sure all (most) the kids try to play like MJ in the playgrounds, try to repeate his moves. For obvious reasons when I was playing I prefer hook shots as it came more natural for me to perform and at better use close to the basket then the fadeway jump shot, trying hard to copy someone moves and have positive results is not easy thing to do ...

I can honestly said that MJ have some crucial advantage over Lebron and it is the mentality and clutch scoring, with game on the line I am prefering MJ, because making a basket is the most important thing of all and I am giving the edge to MJ in that department. Let's sound not like a knock to Lebron fanbase - for the persons who grew up watching Lebron is hard to understand that, they are not going to waste their time to watch whole games of Bulls in the 80s and early 90s ,for sure they see the higlights but they do not tell the whole story.
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Old 03-08-2018, 11:22 AM   #22
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Default Re: Is Lebron up there in the best player of all time?

Lebron is the first All-Time Great superstar of the Social Network era. Then, everything he did (or didn't) has been seen and digested and analyzed and deformed ad nauseum.

Facts are facts: he has the resume, the titles, the aura among his peer. From 2006 to 2017, only 3 players have been able to at least contest his status as Best in the world (Kobe, KD, Curry). His individual stats are in a stratosphere no one ever reached (30k, 8k, 8k). After that, is status in this Creme de la creme crop of players is up to debate.
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Old 03-08-2018, 11:39 AM   #23
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Default Re: Is Lebron up there in the best player of all time?

I believe there are people that watch the game with their eyes, look at box scores and stats, and also, those that do both.

He checks all boxes. As much as people hate him, for stat geeks, his PER is up there with the mount rushmore. His stat awards are first tier as well.

Eyeball test shows a player that can have moments like an MJ scoring while having moments that are Magic like... Oh yea and he literally can bully ball people like Shaq.

Shaq said Lebron reminds him of a mix of MJ, Magic, and Shaq all in one. He's unique.

How many power perimeter players are there other than Dr J and Nique? Lebron is bigger than those guys while developing a better 3 ball.

I've seen the top 2 players to be KAJ and MJ. They have rings, PER, eye ball test, impact, games ahead of their time.

I've always seen Lebron in the 5-7 ranking.
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Old 03-08-2018, 11:39 AM   #24
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Default Re: Is Lebron up there in the best player of all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAVAR BALL
Lebron is the first All-Time Great superstar of the Social Network era. Then, everything he did (or didn't) has been seen and digested and analyzed and deformed ad nauseum.

Facts are facts: he has the resume, the titles, the aura among his peer. From 2006 to 2017, only 3 players have been able to at least contest his status as Best in the world (Kobe, KD, Curry). His individual stats are in a stratosphere no one ever reached (30k, 8k, 8k). After that, is status in this Creme de la creme crop of players is up to debate.

Yep facts are facts. We've seen MJ play and we've seen Lebron play. It's not hard to determine who is better based on what we saw, end of story.
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Old 03-08-2018, 11:53 AM   #25
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Default Re: Is Lebron up there in the best player of all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by egokiller
Yep facts are facts. We've seen MJ play and we've seen Lebron play. It's not hard to determine who is better based on what we saw, end of story.

I don't really care about that to be honest. If the Question is "Did Lebron reach the level of the Top 4-5 guys up for the GOAT title", the answer is yes

After that, i don't care if people want to crown Jordan, KAJ, Wilt, or Lebron. didn't see the oldest ones, didn' particularly liked Jordan in his time, didn't really feel the need-urge to stan Lebron. Goat is not a deifinite argument and no consensus will ever be reached, no matter how much 3ball copy/paste his stats. The game is different, the players is different, the way people see what makes a GOAT is different, end of story.
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Old 03-08-2018, 11:57 AM   #26
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Default Re: Is Lebron up there in the best player of all time?

IT probably MJs biggest rival said himself he'd take LeBron over MJ multiple times.
If your going off rings Russell is the GOAT
If your going off overall accomplishedments Kareem is the GOAT
If your going off statistical dominance LeBrons the GOAT
Can't go wrong with either
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Old 03-08-2018, 12:01 PM   #27
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Default Re: Is Lebron up there in the best player of all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny98
Give me the more efficient scorer,better plamaker,better rebounder,better defender,less selfish ,easier to build around,more versatile,requires less help to win and the one who performs better against elite defenses.
Kareem Abdul Jabbar.
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Old 03-08-2018, 12:46 PM   #28
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Default Re: Is Lebron up there in the best player of all time?

Lebron is poor manís magic, he canít be the best when MJ and Magic are ahead of him, not even counting Kareem and Wilt who are on par with Magic.
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Old 03-08-2018, 01:03 PM   #29
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Default Re: Is Lebron up there in the best player of all time?

Going by the eye test... yes and it isn't even close. Top 3 GOAT at worst.

LeBron is 6'8", build like a tank and he is a world class athlete, but not only does he have the GOAT physical traits, his raw ability to play basketball is insane. He can score like MJ & Kobe, he passes the ball like Magic, he can rebound, and at his peak... his defensive versatility was out of this world, he would lock up players from MVP Rose to a prime Pau Gasol, you can't find that defensive versatility.

I don't think people appreciate what a marvelous performance he has had in his last 3 NBA Finals, basically willed his team to 2 wins in 2015 vs a great team despite having a trash supporting cast, he had a GOAT Finals performance in 2016 leading players in every single category from points to blocks and defeating a 73 win team in the process.....in 2017 he averaged a 30 point triple double vs the GOAT team.

The only real stain on his legacy is 2011, but what he has done from 2012-present has been legendary, he has just had bad luck of facing ATG teams in the Finals in those years, but he still managed to win 3 chips in that span.

If LeBron and his team from 2012-present faced the best 90's Western conference teams in the Finals then the GOAT conversation would probably have been over in his favor by now.

Just facts.
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Old 03-08-2018, 01:19 PM   #30
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Default Re: Is Lebron up there in the best player of all time?

If we are just going by eye test and considering things like being a physical marvel and all I donít know why Lebron goes over Shaq.

We all remember Shaq being dominant but we donít really give him the full credit heís due.

I mean....look at this guy:

https://youtu.be/NKICLZfKMG0

Not call bums. Vs the DPOY.

Shaq was a goon, goblin, golem and more. He was totally out of hand for a while there.

As just a physical marvel and evaluating players by their individual dominance when you watch them play I donít know how LeBron is top three at worst when Jordan, Shaq, Kareem, and Wilt existed. I donít see how you put the ďat worstĒ in there.
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