1997 Chicago Bulls ( Big Three) vs. 1997 Houston Rockets ( Big Three)

[97 bulls]

I would disagree. One of Pippen's all-time great defensive jobs was on Magic in the 91 Finals. Magic still had a double-double every game. I think the equivalent to Jordan scoring 30+ points would probably be Pippen making Magic almost a non-factor. And even if Pippen's defense = Jordan's scoring, Jordan was much better at defense then Pippen was at scoring.

And either way, you always take a great scorer over a great defender, at least when your building a team. Nobody in their right mind would take Bruce Bowen over Carmelo Anthony.



Jordan rarely, if ever, conserved his energy on defense. Its a common misconception.



Sure Pippen hit big shots, but he also disappeared alot in big games.

And maybe once or twice he could've averaged that much, but it wouldn't surprise me if he never did. He was never that great of a scorer, and when he did have his chances like 94,95,99, he never scored that much.

I love Pippen but sorry, he is one of the most overrated players ever. When everyone says that Jordan would have no titles if it wasn't for Pippen, he's really overrated. Then you also have people on here saying Pippen is as great as Larry Bird or Kobe Bryant.

stats wise magic had a great championship, but he is magic friggn johnson for goodness sake. not to mention pip also had some pretty good scoring games in the 91 final. i believed he average 18 ppg on 52% shooting with about 8 brds and 7 asts.

and if im not mistaken when jordan had to do everyrthing in the beginning of his career the bulls were first round exits. i never said jordan couldnt do what pippen did. i said he could but he would not have won as much. and to me shutting magic down would be equal to scoring 60 pts. def not 30. guy, your another one of those guys that only looks at one side of the ball, offense, get your head out of your basckside at look at the big picture. theres a reason why defensive teams beat offensive teams most of the time.

and as far as the bird and bryant comparison, i believe weve had this convo before. i believe both bryant and bird are better players but not by much and not when you factor in all facets of basketball. not to mention bird and bryant were 1st options pip was a second. not really a fair compariso. but pip had all the tools to have mid 20 ppg seasons. he could drive with both hands, shoot, shoot the three, had a great 1st step, and had a high bball IQ. he even had a little jump hook in the post.

[97 bulls]

Evidence definetly pisses Jordan cocck**********ers at a ver y high rate.

Jordan words:

"If i go Back to Basketball It will Only be If Pippen Plays with me"...

(ofcourse if you have the most Complete SF, the Best Passing and Creative SF, the Best Defensive SF of the 1990s with you for all of your life so he *Pippen takes the Load on the Rest and you can go score and take as many FGA as you like...its quite obvious)

i remember that quote

[Jasper]

What if - we can only speculate , and it could of been a very good series.
But the span of three years the Bulls were pure veterans :
95/96 --- 72-10
96/97 --- 69-13
97/98 ---62-20

Other than role players; the core of the Bulls had a 203-43 record.
As desire is - The championship Bulls played for only a championship and the cream on the cake was to win a third in 97/98.
After the 72-10 season they didn't push to perform at that high level during the season , and guided themselves for the playoffs.
Houston may of gave them a run for their money , but the Bulls had an aura about them only true champions carry.

[guy]

stats wise magic had a great championship, but he is magic friggn johnson for goodness sake. not to mention pip also had some pretty good scoring games in the 91 final. i believed he average 18 ppg on 52% shooting with about 8 brds and 7 asts.

and if im not mistaken when jordan had to do everyrthing in the beginning of his career the bulls were first round exits. i never said jordan couldnt do what pippen did. i said he could but he would not have won as much. and to me shutting magic down would be equal to scoring 60 pts. def not 30. guy, your another one of those guys that only looks at one side of the ball, offense, get your head out of your basckside at look at the big picture. theres a reason why defensive teams beat offensive teams most of the time.

When defensive teams beat offensive teams it also has to do with the fact that the defensive teams are very good offensive teams as well. The Suns don't ever beat the Spurs cause they completely suck on defense, while the Spurs are one of the best defensive teams in the league AND they have a great offense. I definitely think defense is important, I'd be an idiot not to. I just think great offensive players are more important then great defensive players. I believe I've given you this analogy before, but a great offensive but average defensive player can lead a bunch of scrubs to more wins then a great defensive but average offensive player can. In either scenario, you won't get many wins regardless.

And 1988 was a year where Pippen played like 20 mpg, and Jordan led his team to the 2nd round. The thing is people say Jordan without Pippen would've never won anything, but that implies that if Pippen never came around, Jordan would've NEVER gotten any help. That is highly doubtful. For example, if instead of Pippen, the Bulls had Dikembe Mutombo in his place, the Bulls would've still won multiple titles. The fact that Jordan never had a great center and still led his team to that many titles shows at least IMO that he could've won with differently constructed teams, considering almost all other championship teams had an above average and most of the time great center.

Look at 1998. Jordan was 35 years old, and Pippen was out for almost half the year. At 35 years old, Jordan led that team to a 27-11 record, which translates to about 58 wins in an 82 game season, without Pippen and they still ended up with over 60 wins and the best record in the league. Then in the playoffs, Pippen was almost a nonfactor at times with his back-injury. This was Jordan AT 35 YEARS OLD.

and as far as the bird and bryant comparison, i believe weve had this convo before. i believe both bryant and bird are better players but not by much and not when you factor in all facets of basketball. not to mention bird and bryant were 1st options pip was a second. not really a fair compariso. but pip had all the tools to have mid 20 ppg seasons. he could drive with both hands, shoot, shoot the three, had a great 1st step, and had a high bball IQ. he even had a little jump hook in the post.

If Pippen was as great as Bird, then the Bulls would've still been good enough to win the title in 95 and a baseball playing Jordan would've been enough help for him. I'll give you that Kobe isn't better then Pippen by much, but he's better.

[guy]

Barkley was done offensively by 1996. He could hardly run or leap and his back was dead (not to mention his knees) still Rodman was no contest for Barkley, even in that condition. Proof:

[COLOR="DarkRed"]Bulls vs Rockets. Jordan 45pts Barkley 35 (Thrash talk game)[/COLOR]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=jGX_HXlTV-Q

They were both 35 years old (Michael and Charles) but their competitive fire was still young. Besides the great performances, there was lots of thrash talking, fun and mutual respect for one another. The only thing missing were the cracked asphalt and chain nets

The [COLOR="Red"]Rockets played without injured stars Hakeem Olajuwon and Clyde Drexler and then lost guard Mario Elie with 6:54 left in the first half when he strained his left shoulder [/COLOR]after colliding under the basket with Scottie Pippen.

But every time it looked like the Bulls would run away, Houston fought back with determined play from Barkley, who made 11-of-14 field goal attempts.

[COLOR="Blue"]Barkley's intensity and aggressiveness made Dennis Rodman (no points, five rebounds in 35 minutes) ineffective, turning the NBA's leading rebounder into a pussycat with leopard-spotted hair[/COLOR].

"[COLOR="blue"]Charles doesn't take any of the mess that Dennis may try to do to other players to get into their minds," Jordan said[/COLOR].

Score Boards/Stats

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...801180CHI.html

That was a great video. I don't see why you hate on Barkley's Rocket days. At 34 years old, he was averaging 19 ppg/13 rpg, and its not like he was putting up those numbers on a bad team. There were two other great scorers, Hakeem and Clyde, and two other great rebounders, Hakeem and Willis, and he still put up numbers like that. If the Rockets don't have that many injuries that year, they get the 1st seed, and they beat the Jazz that year with HCA.

[Loki]

Who Guarded Magic Most Effecitve?

Go watch the games instead of regurgitating nonsense you've heard in highlight videos. Jordan was on Magic AT LEAST 50% of the series, including all of game 1, first quarter of game 2, half of game 3, about 60-65% of game 4, and all of game 5. If Pippen was more effective, why did Jackson switch him back off Magic?

WHo Guarded Drexler Most Drexler?

Jordan did, because he was the one who guarded Drexler at least 80-85% of the time during the '92 Finals. Go watch the games.

Who Guarded The Bigger Guards and the SF Scoring Threats?

What bigger guards? Pippen guarded SF's exclusively save for a few exceptions. He did not guard anyone who was labeled a SG. SF scoring threats? He guarded SF's yeah -- that was his position. Who was guarding Drexler/Richmond/Miller/Dumars and guys like KJ/Isiah/Tim Hardaway/Price on occasion? Hint: it wasn't Pippen.

Who Played Most Minutes for the Bulls in the 1991 Play-Offs?

L...M...A...O

This "whoever played the most minutes was the KEY player" stuff is ridiculous.

1991 Play-Offs

Jordan: 40.5 MPG, 31.1 PPG (52.4% FG on 22.11 FGA!), 6.4 RPG, 8.4 AGP, 2.35 SPG

Pippen: 41.4 MPG, 21.6 PPG (50.4% FG on only [COLOR="Red"]16.59 FGA = 5-6 FGA Lesser than Jordan took[/COLOR]), 8.9 RPG, 5.8 ASPG , 2.47 SPG[/B]

Maybe you don't realize that scoring 10 extra points on 5.5 more shots per game is extremely efficient and impressive.

You seem to think that any player, if given 21-23 shots per game, can average 30+ ppg. They can't. Pippen could never find/create 22 good shots per game for himself -- certainly not if he were the focal point of the defense like Jordan was.

[Loki]

We're dealing with two TREMENDOUS Pippen jockers in this thread. Sir Braindead and a guy who has said in the past that Bird isn't much better than Pippen if at all (97 Bulls).

Pippen is easily the most overrated legend in NBA history. Easily.

[Sir Charles]

We're dealing with two TREMENDOUS Pippen jockers in this thread. Sir Braindead and a guy who has said in the past that Bird isn't much better than Pippen if at all (97 Bulls).

Pippen is easily the most overrated legend in NBA history. Easily.

Are u stupid I Never Said that Pippen was Better than Bird but there is no doubt he is the best

SF of the 90s
Defensive SF Ever
Pure Point-Forward of the 90s
Great Offensive Player in the 1 on 1 Department, Do to Spead, Moves and Could Leap and Dunk
One of the Most Fundamental SFs Ever

[97 bulls]

Go watch the games instead of regurgitating nonsense you've heard in highlight videos. Jordan was on Magic AT LEAST 50% of the series, including all of game 1, first quarter of game 2, half of game 3, about 60-65% of game 4, and all of game 5. If Pippen was more effective, why did Jackson switch him back off Magic?



Jordan did, because he was the one who guarded Drexler at least 80-85% of the time during the '92 Finals. Go watch the games.



What bigger guards? Pippen guarded SF's exclusively save for a few exceptions. He did not guard anyone who was labeled a SG. SF scoring threats? He guarded SF's yeah -- that was his position. Who was guarding Drexler/Richmond/Miller/Dumars and guys like KJ/Isiah/Tim Hardaway/Price on occasion? Hint: it wasn't Pippen.



L...M...A...O

This "whoever played the most minutes was the KEY player" stuff is ridiculous.



Maybe you don't realize that scoring 10 extra points on 5.5 more shots per game is extremely efficient and impressive.

You seem to think that any player, if given 21-23 shots per game, can average 30+ ppg. They can't. Pippen could never find/create 22 good shots per game for himself -- certainly not if he were the focal point of the defense like Jordan was.

i agree with everything you stated except the last point. pip couldnt find 22 fga a game because jordan took most of the shots. and thats def not a bad thing. but pippen had the skills to be a 25 ppg scorer.

[Godfather]

Are u stupid I Never Said that Pippen was Better than Pippen but there is no doubt he is the best

SF of the 90s
Defensive SF Ever
Pure Point-Forward of the 90s
Great Offensive Player in the 1 on 1 Department, Do to Spead, Moves and Could Leap and Dunk
One of the Most Fundamental SFs Ever

What?

[97 bulls]

We're dealing with two TREMENDOUS Pippen jockers in this thread. Sir Braindead and a guy who has said in the past that Bird isn't much better than Pippen if at all (97 Bulls).

Pippen is easily the most overrated legend in NBA history. Easily.

lol, let me set you straight bro. im a bulls fan not a jordan nutthugger like you. i believe you get off while watching 20 year old videos of michael jordan dunking on someone with his nuts in the other mans face. and from my side im dealing with a guy that is afraid that if pippen was considered one of the best that it takes away from the legacy of jordan. and i got news for you, IT DOESNT.

[Sir Charles]

That was a great video. I don't see why you hate on Barkley's Rocket days. At 34 years old, he was averaging 19 ppg/13 rpg, and its not like he was putting up those numbers on a bad team. There were two other great scorers, Hakeem and Clyde, and two other great rebounders, Hakeem and Willis, and he still put up numbers like that. If the Rockets don't have that many injuries that year, they get the 1st seed, and they beat the Jazz that year with HCA.

I don`t hate on the Rockets at all (they played with Great Ball Movement etc) I just new it was a bad idea for Charles because his real game is when he is the Focal Scoring Point and asoumes all responsabiliy. And he was done by 1996: His knees and leaping abilities were gone. We were actually lucky to see him after 1994. On the other hand it not a Great Idea to have an injured phenomena at 34, Hakeem at 34 and Clyde at 35 No Matter how Great They Where to Have 3 Ex Stars passed their Prime is to much of a Load. Not to mention Mario Elie like 35-36 years old too.

[Sir Charles]

lol, let me set you straight bro. im a bulls fan not a jordan nutthugger like you. i believe you get off while watching 20 year old videos of michael jordan dunking on someone with his nuts in the other mans face. and from my side im dealing with a guy that is afraid that if pippen was considered one of the best that it takes away from the legacy of jordan. and i got news for you, IT DOESNT.

[Scott Pippen]

Pippen is easily the most overrated legend in NBA history. Easily.

disagree

[Loki]

i agree with everything you stated except the last point. pip couldnt find 22 fga a game because jordan took most of the shots. and thats def not a bad thing. but pippen had the skills to be a 25 ppg scorer.

That's baloney. 22 FGA hit at 49% gives you ~21 ppg, then another 6-8 from FT's. That makes you a 27-29 ppg scorer, not a 25 ppg scorer. Again, Pippen could not create 22 good shots for himself (i.e., where he would hit >48% of them) as the focus of the defense.

And Pippen couldn't have averaged 25 ppg anyway imo. He had the perfect opportunity to do so in '94 and '95 and didn't. I'm sure the Bulls needed his scoring in some games; the lack of high scoring games from Pip is another indication that he wasn't a big time scorer. He scored 35+ points a grand total of 6 times in those two seasons despite having free rein (and only two of those games were above 36 points; all but one were against poor defensive teams: ATL, GSW, PHO, LAL and DAL).