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Old 05-21-2019, 07:42 PM   #1
Kblaze8855
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Default Are Kyrie, Steph, and Steve Nash the only elite ball handlers and shooters?

"Elite" is hard to quantify which is why its arguable but it seems you rarely get both in one package...and I feel like you should more often.

Those are the skills the little gym built kids should have.

But it seems most people on one list arent on the others. The handles all time list...you would get names like....



Kyrie
Isiah
Steph
Paul
Iverson
Tim Hardaway
Shamgod
Kenny Anderson
Jason Williams
Crawford
Rod Strickland

You might get a Tiny Archibald, Pistol Pete, Steve Francis, or Baron Davis mention even. Pearl Washington if you go into college.


For shooters you would get


Steph
Ray Allen
Nash
Kyrie
Peja
Bird
Drazen
Reggie
Klay
Mark Price
Durant
Dirk

Guys like that.

Obvious reason some of them wouldnt be on a handles list. Size mostly. But you could argue for Nash I think.

Not many even justify an honorable mention on both.


Chris Paul can shoot. You putting him next to Nash and Steph? nash. But on the other hand...Nash has handles...you putting him next to Kyrie and Isiah Thomas?

Maybe. Maybe not.

Possible the elite on two list guys are just Kyrie and Steph. Id at least consider Nash and maybe Pistol though. Nash had wicked ball control and got wherever he wanted without being athletic. Counts for something. Pistol didnt have the same moves modern guys had...but some modern guys dont have his either. Hes hard to place. Seems nobody who watched him would leave him off these lists which is worth mentioning....

I can see us having more of these gym built dual threats going forward with the better youth training kids get now and handle gloves and insane shooting drills....but to this point?

I feel like there should have been more people on both lists.

You cant go by yourself and work on D...or rebounding really.

Shooting and handles? You have to play too but...a lot of the work is you alone while everyone else is living life. The nicest shooters I knew(Shammond Williams being #1)...none had nasty handles. Now you arent gonna take the ball...and they sure as hell had good handles for the competition they were playing...but you arent running anything back on some "Greatest move of all time?" shit.

Handles and shooting are the first things you notice about a basketball player you never saw before. Go play...the guy with handles...he stands out as someone who can play. The guy who can shoot....you can tell. Guys with both are a problem.

Feels like we should have had more "Jesus christ..." ball handlers by now who could also wow you with shooting.

Most of them can score....but thats not the same thing.

Oh and you know who by career highlights might end up on both lists?

James Harden.

Perhaps he shouldnt.....but shouldnt doesnt really matter does it?
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Old 05-21-2019, 07:44 PM   #2
Vino24
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Default Re: Are Kyrie, Steph, and Steve Nash the only elite ball handlers and shooters?

Kyrie is elite if he was a streetball player. However NBA is a team sport and his constant over dribbling lowers the ceiling of his teams offense.
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Old 05-21-2019, 07:46 PM   #3
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Default Re: Are Kyrie, Steph, and Steve Nash the only elite ball handlers and shooters?

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Originally Posted by Vino24
Kyrie is elite if he was a streetball player. However NBA is a team sport and his constant over dribbling lowers the ceiling of his teams offense.


So Kyrie is in fact not an elite ball handler because you think he dribbles too much? That what youre saying?

You think anyone you think is an elite ball handler...would say he isnt?
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Old 05-21-2019, 07:47 PM   #4
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Default Re: Are Kyrie, Steph, and Steve Nash the only elite ball handlers and shooters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
So Kyrie is in fact not an elite ball handler because you think he dribbles too much? That what youre saying?
yep. part of being elite is not disrupting the flow. Nash was a master at it
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Old 05-21-2019, 07:49 PM   #5
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Default Re: Are Kyrie, Steph, and Steve Nash the only elite ball handlers and shooters?

Well...ill just say I suspect 100% of the people to ever play nba basketball would disagree and leave it at that.
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Old 05-21-2019, 07:51 PM   #6
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Default Re: Are Kyrie, Steph, and Steve Nash the only elite ball handlers and shooters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
Well...ill just say I suspect 100% of the people to ever play nba basketball would disagree and leave it at that.
agree to disagree. kyrie is "entertaining" not a winning brand. a player like nash, LeBron, cp3 are purposeful and calculated
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Old 05-21-2019, 07:53 PM   #7
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Default Re: Are Kyrie, Steph, and Steve Nash the only elite ball handlers and shooters?

.
Curry is bad at contested mid-range:


2019 Playoffs




https://stats.nba.com/player/201939/...nType=Playoffs

So looks like he shoots 29% on tightly contested two's outside of 10 feet, and 39% on contested.. ..
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Old 05-21-2019, 07:54 PM   #8
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Default Re: Are Kyrie, Steph, and Steve Nash the only elite ball handlers and shooters?

Chris Paul?
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Old 05-21-2019, 07:54 PM   #9
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Default Re: Are Kyrie, Steph, and Steve Nash the only elite ball handlers and shooters?

Curry isn't an all-time shooter because he's bad at contested shots

He shoots very badly at contested mid-range (see post above) and 80% of his threes are open

You can't be considered a goat shooter if you're bad at contested jump shots
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Old 05-21-2019, 07:55 PM   #10
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Default Re: Are Kyrie, Steph, and Steve Nash the only elite ball handlers and shooters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ball
.
Curry is bad at contested mid-range:


2019 Playoffs




https://stats.nba.com/player/201939/...nType=Playoffs

So looks like he shoots 29% on tightly contested two's outside of 10 feet, and 39% on contested.. ..
3ball on a full Curry meltdown
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Old 05-21-2019, 07:55 PM   #11
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Default Re: Are Kyrie, Steph, and Steve Nash the only elite ball handlers and shooters?

Handles can be a bit subjective. Steph can get pretty careless with the ball at times. maybe that would fall under passing. Nash had the same issue, maybe not as much as Steph.

Kyrie has the best 1 on 1 handles I have ever seen, but that is also his big problem. He dribbles too much which bit him in the ass in the playoffs. Playing with LeBron took the ball out of his hands and minimized the problem.

I would love to see Price in this era. His handles might not have been as flashy as the other guys but he was very effective without the downsides. He was also a great shooter from everywhere with a very quick release.
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Old 05-21-2019, 07:58 PM   #12
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Default Re: Are Kyrie, Steph, and Steve Nash the only elite ball handlers and shooters?

I consider handles to be being able to dribble out of double teams or any sort of trouble the player puts themselves into. Even 1 on 1, usually getting whatever shot they want. Theses guys can do that.

I'd even consider Jamal Crawford in this category.
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Old 05-21-2019, 08:04 PM   #13
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Default Re: Are Kyrie, Steph, and Steve Nash the only elite ball handlers and shooters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ball
Curry isn't an all-time shooter because he's bad at contested shots

He shoots very badly at contested mid-range (see post above) and 80% of his threes are open

You can't be considered a goat shooter if you're bad at contested jump shots

Yet you base this on one Playoff run, where he's taken about 4 of those shots in the mid-range. Why did you not include the 3-point one, maybe because he shot 62.5% on those?

It's just the smallest sample size possible, using that to say that he's not an all-time shooter is just flat out dishonest.
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Old 05-21-2019, 08:05 PM   #14
Kblaze8855
Titles are overrated
 
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Default Re: Are Kyrie, Steph, and Steve Nash the only elite ball handlers and shooters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ball
Curry isn't an all-time shooter because he's bad at contested shots

He shoots very badly at contested mid-range (see post above) and 80% of his threes are open

You can't be considered a goat shooter if you're bad at contested jump shots


Whoever you think is a great shooter...thinks hes a great shooter. Moving along....
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Old 05-21-2019, 08:07 PM   #15
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Default Re: Are Kyrie, Steph, and Steve Nash the only elite ball handlers and shooters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tontoz
Handles can be a bit subjective. Steph can get pretty careless with the ball at times. maybe that would fall under passing. Nash had the same issue, maybe not as much as Steph.

Kyrie has the best 1 on 1 handles I have ever seen, but that is also his big problem. He dribbles too much which bit him in the ass in the playoffs. Playing with LeBron took the ball out of his hands and minimized the problem.

I would love to see Price in this era. His handles might not have been as flashy as the other guys but he was very effective without the downsides. He was also a great shooter from everywhere with a very quick release.


I felt id get pushback on Prince though mostly from people who didnt see him play.
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