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Old 11-15-2010, 12:03 PM   #46
Tarik One
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Default Re: Where does Manny Pacquiao rank all-time?

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Lennox and Wlad might be rank higher than Foreman and Frazier in the Heavyweight All time lists because of their dominance in their respective era.

You have to take into account the level of competition in the era. This is by far the weakest era in the history of the heavyweight division. Wlad isn't even a top 25 HW. I can list 25 guys who were better boxers than him. Easily

Cool thread btw
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Old 11-15-2010, 03:05 PM   #47
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Default Re: Where does Manny Pacquiao rank all-time?

You'd have to be nuts to put the brothers Kiltschko above Frazier and especially ****ing crazy to put them above Foreman. Their level of competition has been historically low, and both of them have lost more than once to these mediocre fighters, even if Vitali's losses were kind of freakish.

Icing Norton, Chuvalo, Frazierx2, and coming back to win the title over Moorer at two hundred years old is far more impressive than anything Wlad has done.

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Originally Posted by raiderfan19
Leonard is higher than pac and its not really arguable. Pac also lost to morales, very easily could have been 0-2 against JMM and beatting berrera doesnt matchup with beating the hitman. So 1-1 vs duran> 2-1 vs morales, 1-0 vs hearns>2-0 vs berrera 1-0 hagler>1-0-1 vs JMM.

You'd have an argument if Pac's career ended after fighting those Mexican legends, though I think Hagler won that fight, but it didn't.

A large part of Manny's greatness comes from moving so high above his natural weight and dominating gifted fighters in De La Hoya, Clottey, Cotto, Hatton, and Margarito. None of them are going to wind up top 100 probably, but they are all skilled fighters and former champions and not one of them put up a competitive fight for 12 rounds. Reckon that's what puts him over Leonard.
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Old 11-15-2010, 03:20 PM   #48
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Default Re: Where does Manny Pacquiao rank all-time?

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Originally Posted by chungerball
That can't be a typo....I sense some illiteracy amongst us here.
Which shouldn't be surprising considering what sport this site is about. Urban sports will get urban fans.
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Old 11-15-2010, 03:23 PM   #49
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Default Re: Where does Manny Pacquiao rank all-time?

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Originally Posted by Kobe8
Pacquiao Is the Best Southpaw Boxer ever


/thread
I'd probably say that the three best southpaws of all-time are Pacquiao, Marvin Hagler and Pernell Whitaker.
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Old 11-15-2010, 03:26 PM   #50
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Default Re: Where does Manny Pacquiao rank all-time?

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Originally Posted by Zombles
You'd have to be nuts to put the brothers Kiltschko above Frazier and especially ****ing crazy to put them above Foreman. Their level of competition has been historically low, and both of them have lost more than once to these mediocre fighters, even if Vitali's losses were kind of freakish.

Icing Norton, Chuvalo, Frazierx2, and coming back to win the title over Moorer at two hundred years old is far more impressive than anything Wlad has done.



You'd have an argument if Pac's career ended after fighting those Mexican legends, though I think Hagler won that fight, but it didn't.

A large part of Manny's greatness comes from moving so high above his natural weight and dominating gifted fighters in De La Hoya, Clottey, Cotto, Hatton, and Margarito. None of them are going to wind up top 100 probably, but they are all skilled fighters and former champions and not one of them put up a competitive fight for 12 rounds. Reckon that's what puts him over Leonard.
De la Hoya and Cotto are the only two of those that contribute anything to his all time legacy other than moving up in weight. Hatton, Margarito and Clottey do nothing.
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Old 11-15-2010, 03:29 PM   #51
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Default Re: Where does Manny Pacquiao rank all-time?

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De la Hoya and Cotto are the only two of those that contribute anything to his all time legacy other than moving up in weight. Hatton, Margarito and Clottey do nothing.

Plus Oscar was an over the hill string bean when they fought. 1996 Oscar vs Pac, different outcome.
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Old 11-15-2010, 03:31 PM   #52
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Default Re: Where does Manny Pacquiao rank all-time?

I don't see any argument for Pacquiao being in front of Leonard... Or even all that close, for that matter. Beating Duran, Hagler and Hearns > than anything Pac has done.

What is the argument for Pac?
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Old 11-15-2010, 03:32 PM   #53
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Default Re: Where does Manny Pacquiao rank all-time?

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Originally Posted by Tarik One
Plus Oscar was an over the hill string bean when they fought. 1996 Oscar vs Pac, different outcome.
Oscar was clearly out of his prime but I think that that was a case of Manny making DLH look THAT old, much like Floyd made Mosley look THAT old. Im not saying either was in their absolute prime or anything but I also think it was simply the greatness of their opponent that made them look that bad.
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Old 11-15-2010, 03:33 PM   #54
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Default Re: Where does Manny Pacquiao rank all-time?

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Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
I'd probably say that the three best southpaws of all-time are Pacquiao, Marvin Hagler and Pernell Whitaker.

No argument there.

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De la Hoya and Cotto are the only two of those that contribute anything to his all time legacy other than moving up in weight. Hatton, Margarito and Clottey do nothing.

What?

If anything Hatton does the most for his legacy because he took his record 4th lineal title from Hatton (who was indestructible at 140) and the ease and brutality with which he did it. I'd say DLH did the least (barring $) because he was old and drained, his victory against a 165lb 32 year old Margarito is more impressive than the one against the 147 35 year old Oscar IMO. Cotto and Clottey were both big, strong, durable fighters who took eachother to the limit and presented different challenges to Manny- Cotto is a big powerful boxer/puncher, Clottey being an iron-chinned defensive counter-puncher who routinely comes in at 160+ himself on fight night.
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Old 11-15-2010, 03:48 PM   #55
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Default Re: Where does Manny Pacquiao rank all-time?

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Originally Posted by DonDadda59
No argument there.



What?

If anything Hatton does the most for his legacy because he took his record 4th lineal title from Hatton (who was indestructible at 140) and the ease and brutality with which he did it. I'd say DLH did the least (barring $) because he was old and drained, his victory against a 165lb 32 year old Margarito is more impressive than the one against the 147 35 year old Oscar IMO. Cotto and Clottey were both big, strong, durable fighters who took eachother to the limit and presented different challenges to Manny- Cotto is a big powerful boxer/puncher, Clottey being an iron-chinned defensive counter-puncher who routinely comes in at 160+ himself on fight night.
Margarito was a disgrace who barely hasn't done anything without bricks in his gloves(that we know for sure) and hadnt looked good at all in his last 2 fights. Clottey literally didnt fight and isnt anything special in an all time sense. Ive never thought of hatton as anything all that special. That may be my personal opinion coloring his rating as a boxer(much like your personal opinion of floyd affects your opinion of floyd as a boxer)
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Old 11-15-2010, 03:51 PM   #56
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Default Re: Where does Manny Pacquiao rank all-time?

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I don't see any argument for Pacquiao being in front of Leonard... Or even all that close, for that matter. Beating Duran, Hagler and Hearns > than anything Pac has done.

+ Benitez. Benitez was just one of the best defensive 147 pounders ever.
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Old 11-15-2010, 04:10 PM   #57
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Default Re: Where does Manny Pacquiao rank all-time?

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Originally Posted by raiderfan19
Margarito was a disgrace who barely hasn't done anything without bricks in his gloves(that we know for sure) and hadnt looked good at all in his last 2 fights. Clottey literally didnt fight and isnt anything special in an all time sense. Ive never thought of hatton as anything all that special. That may be my personal opinion coloring his rating as a boxer(much like your personal opinion of floyd affects your opinion of floyd as a boxer)

Margarito, all side-stories notwithstanding, was a 6' super-middleweight in the ring and has always been known for his granite jaw... and a 5'6" midget who was only 1 lb over the WW limit literally broke his face.

He came into the ring Mexican, he left Chinese



Clottey did nothing because he was afraid to open up because Pac was way too fast. And I never thought much of Hatton but the fact is he was undefeated at 140 and was the undisputed lineal champion, and he was sent into a depression and cocaine-fueled early retirement in 2 rounds.
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Old 11-15-2010, 04:18 PM   #58
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Default Re: Where does Manny Pacquiao rank all-time?

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Originally Posted by DonDadda59
Margarito, all side-stories notwithstanding, was a 6' super-middleweight in the ring and has always been known for his granite jaw... and a 5'6" midget who was only 1 lb over the WW limit literally broke his face.

He came into the ring Mexican, he left Chinese



Clottey did nothing because he was afraid to open up because Pac was way too fast. And I never thought much of Hatton but the fact is he was undefeated at 140 and was the undisputed lineal champion, and he was sent into a depression and cocaine-fueled early retirement in 2 rounds.
Margarito was a super middleweight? Really? Antonio margarito is and always has been a welterweight. Hes fought I believe 3 fights above welter in his career and never above light middle. Calling him a super middle is just wrong.
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Old 11-15-2010, 04:20 PM   #59
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Default Re: Where does Manny Pacquiao rank all-time?

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Originally Posted by raiderfan19
Margarito was a super middleweight? Really? Antonio margarito is and always has been a welterweight. Hes fought I believe 3 fights above welter in his career and never above light middle. Calling him a super middle is just wrong.

165 lbs to Pac's 148 in the ring.
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Old 11-15-2010, 04:22 PM   #60
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Default Re: Where does Manny Pacquiao rank all-time?

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Originally Posted by DonDadda59
165 lbs to Pac's 148 in the ring.
Hes not the first guy to cut weight and rehydrate. You are better than this. He was 150 for the purposes of the fight and could have easily fought at 147. It was a welterweight fight that Arum and Co pretended was a light middleweight fight in order to get manny a fake title.
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