The Finals really ruined lebron - i mean just before the finals...

[DMAVS41]

This is why people rail on Kobe.

Easily better? The more I think about that comment the funnier it becomes.

Just for fun I looked up what Lebron did to Pierce defensively. Again, conveniently ignored in this thread.

Pierce has his worst game of the playoffs against Lebron. Pierce had 4 of his worst 5 games in the playoffs against Lebron.

Pierce had one game score over 8.4 in that series. That is horrible. He played so bad people were asking if he was hurt. LOL

[DMAVS41]

I did watch the games, I'm not convinced you did though. Sorry, but when a player like Lebron who had just dominated for 2 seasons like few in history have has 3 consecutive games like that, it makes me wonder at least.




I've been consistent since the end of game 6. Others were saying it then as well. I never emphasized game 5. That was the worst, but I was critical of him for the 3 consecutive games, and this is coming from someone who always defends his 2009 series vs Orlando.



It's more difficult to maintain great numbers over a long sample size, it doesn't mean it can't be done, but you can't compare numbers from 2 series to 4. If you want to do that, then compare Kobe's 2010 series vs Utah and Phoenix to Lebron's 2010 run, or 2001 vs Sacramento and San Antonio, 2008(first 2, even 3 rounds he put up incredible numbers), 2009 vs Utah and Denver. Take those back to back series by Kobe rather than the 4 series playoff runs and his numbers look a lot better.



So basketball has to be measured in numbers? And I've never cared about PER anyway. Not everyone has to think like a nerd when it comes to sports.



Yeah, why bother watching the games when you can just check the boxscore.

And again, you left out key numbers such as turnovers and shooting percentage.



No, superstars will receive criticism for having 3 consecutive games like that in the playoffs, it's how it is and how it will always be. And yes, those runs by Kobe are obviously better than Lebron's 2010 "run" which consisted of 1 great series and 2 impressive games in a 6 game series that he lost.

I'm done with you, this is pathetic, anyone who thinks what Lebron did in the 2010 playoffs is comparable to Kobe in the '01, '08, '09 or '10 playoffs clearly has an agenda.

2 series doesn't even make a playoff run. So no, there is no way to rank Lebron's playoff run in 10 over many of Kobe's.

However, are you ready to admit that Kobe's series against Boston was not "easily better"?

If not, why was Kobe easily better?

And you can't just ignore every objective measure because you feel like it. Why should your opinion count more? I watched the games. I think Lebron was better. He made a bigger impact on defense, created more for his sorry ass teammates, was better on the boards, and was more efficient from the field.....doing that against a Boston team with Perk in each game with far less help than Kobe.

[chazzy]

Great runs are made by teams, not individual players. Are you telling me LeBron in Kobe's position wouldn't replicate the success LA had?

At the end of the day, the only way we can compare their playoff runs is through their individual play.

Where do you draw the line factoring in sample size though? Wade technically had an all time great playoff "run" in 2010 but he only played 5 games

Never said it was, just like Kobe's wasn't.

His 01, 08, and 09 runs weren't great?

What is true though is LeBron was SPECTACULAR for the most part in the 2010 playoffs. If Kobe has been "considerably" better many times, then I'd at least like to see 1 playoff run by him with superior production.

He was SPECTACULAR for only a series and a half. That HAS to be considered when you compare it to other deeper playoff runs. Otherwise you start venturing into awkward territory, comparing it to a lot of other great runs in the games' history that are technically inferior statistically. He had a better PER than nearly all of Hakeem and Bird's runs in 2010

[ShaqAttack3234]

2 series doesn't even make a playoff run. So no, there is no way to rank Lebron's playoff run in 10 over many of Kobe's.

However, are you ready to admit that Kobe's series against Boston was not "easily better"?

If not, why was Kobe easily better?

Kobe had 5 good games and won the series, Lebron had 2 and lost the series. And having 3 bad games in a row is inexcusable and when your star does that, it's really hard to win.

[G-Funk]

Kobe had 5 good games and won the series, Lebron had 2 and lost the series. And having 3 bad games in a row is inexcusable and when your star does that, it's really hard to win.

put the numbers for each game!!!

[DMAVS41]

Kobe had 5 good games and won the series, Lebron had 2 and lost the series. And having 3 bad games in a row is inexcusable and when your star does that, it's really hard to win.

I'm confused as to where you get 5 good games.

Kobe was not good in game 2, game 3, or game 7. And was he even good in game 4? Where his team got killed in the 4th?

5 good games? I don't see it.

And winning the series is a pretty weak argument considering the huge gap on help Lebron and Kobe had.

So basically you think Kobe was better because he had better teammates and a better coach. Right?

[A.R.T]

put the numbers for each game!!!

Game 1: 30/7/6/1/1 on 10-22 from the field
Game 4: 33/6/2/2/0 on 10-22 from the field
Game 5: 38/5/4/1/1 on 13-27 from the field (desperate 3's at the end killed his percentage, shot 53-54% for the game until then)
Game 6: 26/11/3/4/0 on 9-19 from the field

[Indian guy]

I did watch the games, I'm not convinced you did though.

You'd be wrong. I have watched, rewatched and triple-watched those games over the past year, and see NOTHING off about LeBron's effort/attitude/approach barring the first half of Game 5. You're free to re-watch those games and prove me otherwise.

Sorry, but when a player like Lebron who had just dominated for 2 seasons like few in history have has 3 consecutive games like that, it makes me wonder at least.

I don't see the big deal. The KG/Thibodeau-led Boston Celtics are arguably the greatest defensive team in NBA history. They own star perimeter players like no one else. Kobe in '08 and '10 against them has fared even worse than LeBron.

and this is coming from someone who always defends his 2009 series vs Orlando.

Dude, you're a little too much in love with 2009-LeBron.

It's more difficult to maintain great numbers over a long sample size

Agreed, but what in LeBron's history indicates he wouldn't be able to maintain his level of play? Especially considering what happened the previous season and more importantly, with Boston ousted, any team he'd run into would be weaker defensively. There's no doubt in my mind LeBron's production would've gotten better had Cleveland defeated Boston last season.

it doesn't mean it can't be done, but you can't compare numbers from 2 series to 4.

All I can do is INDIVIDUALLY compare how 2 players fared. Winning series' is a team accomplishment. I can't fault LeBron for not making it past the 2nd round just because he was stuck with a 20-win supporting cast, while Kobe's LAKERS on the other hand were a Top 5 team talent-wise.

If you want to do that, then compare Kobe's 2010 series vs Utah and Phoenix to Lebron's 2010 run

Nice try. Kobe's first 2 series in 2010 were against OKC and Utah, so let's compare those with LeBron's run.

or 2001 vs Sacramento and San Antonio

Why are you taking Kobe's best series' from each run? You can only take the first 2 series'.

So basketball has to be measured in numbers?

Not just numbers, no, but it's still the most objective metric of judging players out there. I will always take the combination of numbers + actual on-court play over just someone's "word".

it's how it is and how it will always be. And yes, those runs by Kobe are obviously better than Lebron's 2010 "run"

Yeah, even though he wasn't more productive in any of those runs. Sorry, winning series' while playing on FAR superior teams doesn't make you better.

which consisted of 1 great series and 2 impressive games in a 6 game series that he lost.

Those "2 impressive games" still yielded much better production than Kobe's against the exact same team. Gee, Kobe sure was much better against Boston

anyone who thinks what Lebron did in the 2010 playoffs is comparable to Kobe in the '01, '08, '09 or '10 playoffs clearly has an agenda.

Kobe doesn't have a single playoff run in his life statistically superior to LeBron in 2010, yet I'm the one with the agenda for having an issue with your ignorance

My issue isn't even with someone saying Kobe has some runs in his career better than LeBron's in 2010(he does). My issue is with the "considerably better" BS that you're spewing out with nothing to back-up your ignorance with.

[Doranku]

I'm confused as to where you get 5 good games.

Kobe was not good in game 2, game 3, or game 7. And was he even good in game 4? Where his team got killed in the 4th?

5 good games? I don't see it.

And winning the series is a pretty weak argument considering the huge gap on help Lebron and Kobe had.

So basically you think Kobe was better because he had better teammates and a better coach. Right?

He had 4 good games. Check above a couple posts, someone posted the stats.

You honestly think LeBron was better given his performances in the last 3 games of the series?

C'mon, son.

[chazzy]

And was he even good in game 4? Where his team got killed in the 4th?

He had a bunch of TOs but he scored 12pts on 2/5 shooting in the 4th. That was the game Big Baby threw a party inside, I think he had double digits in the 4th and Boston scored in the 30+

[ShaqAttack3234]

Like so many other threads, this is infested with idiotic trolls.

[DMAVS41]

He had 4 good games. Check above a couple posts, someone posted the stats.

You honestly think LeBron was better given his performances in the last 3 games of the series?

C'mon, son.

I'm confused as to why people think Kobe's game 7 is any better than Lebron's game 6. The only difference is that Kobe had a lot more help. That is all.

This is a really interesting topic because it proves that a team winning changes what happened.

Last 3 games? You act like Lebron was horrible in game 4. He certainly wasn't great....and he did turn it over a lot, but you have to factor in his circumstances a little. Look at his sorry ass team. Its a joke compared to Kobe's.

Oh, and game 4:

22/9/8 7 of 18 shooting and held paul pierce to 3 of 8 from the field for 9 points (5 turnovers)

And I'm supposed to think that Kobe's game 4 was somehow better than that? Total bullshit. Sorry.

[Indian guy]

Where do you draw the line factoring in sample size though?

2 series is significant enough I'd say. Especially if the amount of games you have played have hit double digits.

His 01, 08, and 09 runs weren't great?

You said all-time great, not just great. Yes, they were great runs, but certainly not all-time great runs.

He was SPECTACULAR for only a series and a half. That HAS to be considered when you compare it to other deeper playoff runs. Otherwise you start venturing into awkward territory, comparing it to a lot of other great runs in the games' history that are technically inferior statistically. He had a better PER than nearly all of Hakeem and Bird's runs in 2010

So, do we basically deem any comparison where one player ended up playing more series' as the superior run? That isn't really being fair to the guy with the inferior team.

[DMAVS41]

He had a bunch of TOs but he scored 12pts on 2/5 shooting in the 4th. That was the game Big Baby threw a party inside, I think he had double digits in the 4th and Boston scored in the 30+

Yea. He had 2 assists and 7 turnovers and his team crumbled in the 4th. Sorry. Thats not a good game based on the standards people are using in this thread for Lebron. Not at all.

[DMAVS41]

Like so many other threads, this is infested with idiotic trolls.

Funny. Considering you made the biggest joke comment that I've seen in the thread about Kobe's boston series being easily better.