Who are the top 2-5 Players of All-Time?

[Demitri98]

2. Kareem
3. Russell
4. Magic
5. Bird

[Deuce Bigalow]

Of course, Wilt's TEAMs, which were generally pathetic, and that played even worse in the post-season were nine points away from reducing Russell's ring count from an 11-2 edge, down to a 7-6 margin. A Chamberlain with six rings would be a unanimous GOAT. Oh, and in their 10 seasons in the league together, Chamberlain held a 7-2 margin in First-Team All-NBA's.

As for KAJ, he didn't come close to dominating the NBA as much as Chamberlain did, and he played four years IN the Wilt-era. Furthermore, in their four seasons in the league together, Wilt and KAJ each won one ring, but Wilt held a 3-1 Finals edge. So, while they were in the league together, Chamberlain was clearly a greater "winner." On top of that, a peak/prime KAJ won exactly ONE ring, in a decade the last half of which, was arguably the weakest, in terms of title winners, in NBA history. It wasn't until he was paired up with the all-time GOAT winner (in terms of W-L%), Magic Johnson, that he would win five more rings. Interesting too, that when the two played together in those ten years, without Magic, KAJ's winning percentage was .604 (61-40), while Magic's winning percentage, without KAJ, was .750 ( 24-8, or even higher than his career winning percentage of .743.)

Boiled down:

Magic: 5
Bird: 3
Kareem: 6 (4 "elite" rings)
Kobe: 5
Shaq: 4
Duncan: 4
Lebron: 2
Hakeem: 2
Wilt: 2

[ArbitraryWater]

Boiled down:

Magic: 5
Bird: 3
Kareem: 6 (4 "elite" rings)
Kobe: 5
Shaq: 4
Duncan: 4
Lebron: 2
Hakeem: 2
Wilt: 2

BTW: If you go elite rings, might as well have Bird at 2, Kobe at 3, Magic at 4? Shaq at 3?

Btw, Wilt's 1972 one is a bit overblown. great defense & a 15 ppg average. The low amount of FGA skyrocketed his FG%

[LAZERUSS]

Boiled down:

Magic: 5
Bird: 3
Kareem: 6 (4 "elite" rings)
Kobe: 5
Shaq: 4
Duncan: 4
Lebron: 2
Hakeem: 2
Wilt: 2

For one area of criteria. Of course, Bird played with much better rosters his entire career, and only has one more ring, and was nowhere near as dominant in either the regular or post-season.

Or that Hakeem played on five teams that won between 50-58 games, and never played on a team that won 60+ (unlike Wilt, who played on FOUR, and two had records of 68-13 and 69-13), and in fact, couldn't get past the first round in eight of his 15 post-seasons.

Or that Shaq was swept six times in his post-season career, and nearly two more.

Or that KAJ essentially won ONE ring as the main man, and while you could argue 79-80 as another, he didn't even play in the title clinching win. And he was clearly a "third wheel" in his fifth title, and that his '88 Lakers won a title DESPITE his awful post-season (arguably the worst ever by a GOAT.)

Or that Kobe only won two as the main man, and was only brilliant in one (and against a horrible team in the Finals.) Or that he was simply awful in the majority of his Finals, and even worse in his last games of each of his playoff seasons.

Curious too, that you didn't include Russell, who has 11 rings (and again, was just dominated in every facet of the game by Chamberlain.) Russell, along with Magic, and Duncan, were the game's greatest "winners."

And finally, Wilt was the, by far, the most dominant player who has ever played the game. The RECORD BOOK is just plastered with his name.

[ArbitraryWater]

For one area of criteria. Of course, Bird played with much better rosters his entire career, and only has one more ring, and was nowhere near as dominant in either the regular or post-season.

Or that Hakeem played on five teams that won between 50-58 games, and never played on a team that won 60+ (unlike Wilt, who played on FOUR, and two had records of 68-13 and 69-13), and in fact, couldn't get past the first round in eight of his 15 post-seasons.

Or that Shaq was swept six times in his post-season career, and nearly two more.

Or that KAJ essentially won ONE ring as the main man, and while you could argue 79-80 as another, he didn't even play in the title clinching win. And he was clearly a "third wheel" in his fifth title, and that his '88 Lakers won a title DESPITE his awful post-season (arguably the worst ever by a GOAT.)

Or that Kobe only won two as the main man, and was only brilliant in one (and against a horrible team in the Finals.) Or that he was simply awful in the majority of his Finals, and even worse in his last games of each of his playoff seasons.

Curious too, that you didn't include Russell, who has 11 rings (and again, was just dominated in every facet of the game by Chamberlain.) Russell, along with Magic, and Duncan, were the game's greatest "winners."

And finally, Wilt was the, by far, the most dominant player who has ever played the game. The RECORD BOOK is just plastered with his name.

[Random_Guy]

[Deuce Bigalow]

For one area of criteria. Of course, Bird played with much better rosters his entire career, and only has one more ring, and was nowhere near as dominant in either the regular or post-season.

Or that Hakeem played on five teams that won between 50-58 games, and never played on a team that won 60+ (unlike Wilt, who played on FOUR, and two had records of 68-13 and 69-13), and in fact, couldn't get past the first round in eight of his 15 post-seasons.

Or that Shaq was swept six times in his post-season career, and nearly two more.

Or that KAJ essentially won ONE ring as the main man, and while you could argue 79-80 as another, he didn't even play in the title clinching win. And he was clearly a "third wheel" in his fifth title, and that his '88 Lakers won a title DESPITE his awful post-season (arguably the worst ever by a GOAT.)

Or that Kobe only won two as the main man, and was only brilliant in one (and against a horrible team in the Finals.) Or that he was simply awful in the majority of his Finals, and even worse in his last games of each of his playoff seasons.

Curious too, that you didn't include Russell, who has 11 rings (and again, was just dominated in every facet of the game by Chamberlain.) Russell, along with Magic, and Duncan, were the game's greatest "winners."

And finally, Wilt was the, by far, the most dominant player who has ever played the game. The RECORD BOOK is just plastered with his name.

"Shaq swept 6 times"?

Shaq: 4
Wilt: 2

Did Bird ever play with the best player in the league for 2 years like Wilt did in '69 and '70?

Bird: 3
Wilt: 2

You want to talk about sidekick rings? Poor Chamberlain couldn't even sidekick his way to rings in '69 and '70.

"Records"? Keyword: regular season

[sketchy]

2. Kareem
3. Russell
4. Magic
5. Bird

I have this but Bird and Magic flipped.

[sketchy]

Ugh, tell me about it.

[Deuce Bigalow]

I just need to make a "boiled down" thread so we can end this.

[jzek]

#2 Russell
#3 KAJ
#4/#5 Magic/Bird (interchangeable)

[Milbuck]

2) Kareem
3) Carlo Arroyo
4) Russell
5) Bird

[LAZERUSS]

"Shaq swept 6 times"?

Shaq: 4
Wilt: 2

Did Bird ever play with the best player in the league for 2 years like Wilt did in '69 and '70?

Bird: 3
Wilt: 2

You want to talk about sidekick rings? Poor Chamberlain couldn't even sidekick his way to rings in '69 and '70.

"Records"? Keyword: regular season

In '69, Unseld won the MVP, and in '70 Reed won it. Wilt did not play with either.

And you are right about '69 and '70. Which just proves that it was a failed strategy. Not to mention that Chamberlain was clearly the best center on the floor in those two playoff runs, and the rest of the Lakers puked all over the floor in both.

And Wilt holds MUTLIPLE PLAYOFF records, as well. Not to mention that a "scoring" Chamberlain had post-seasons of 33 ppg, 35 ppg, 35 ppg and 37 ppg. Or that he also had playoff series of 37 ppg, 37 ppg, 39 ppg and 39 ppg. Or that he also had FOUR 50+ point games, achieved in his first 26 playoff games, three of which came in "must-win" games.

Or that in his first 67 playoff games, he AVERAGED 30.4 ppg, 27.0 rpg, 4.5 apg, shot .515 (in leagues that shot .421), and probably blocked 8+ shost per game. You would be hard-pressed to find ONE GOAT player who had ONE post-season SERIES, or even ONE playoff GAME with that stat-line. Or that he crushed the likes of Russell and Thurmond in those seasons.

Or that a way-past his prime Wilt, on a surgically repaired knee, statistically outplayed a PEAK Kareem in '71 (and in fact, received a standing ovation as he left the floor in the last game of that series...and the game was played in Milwaukee.) Or that he dominated Kareem in the last four games of the '72 WCF's, holding a PEAK Kareem to an unfathomable .414 shooting in those four games, en route to a 4-2 series win.

Or that a Chamberlain was voted FMVP, at age 35, while his best teammate, West, shot .325 from the floor in that series.

Or the real simple fact that Wilt played in 29 post-season series, and was arguably the best player on the floor in the vast majority of them. Or that in those 29 series, he was thee best center on the floor in at least 25 of them, and arguably, in ALL of them.

[LAZERUSS]

I just need to make a "boiled down" thread so we can end this.

Yes, using rings as the only criteria?

Russell, and by a HUGE margin.

And yet, very few considered Russell a greater player than Wilt in their ten years in the league together, as evidenced by Wilt's 7-2 margin in First-Team All-NBAs and overwhelming MVPs in the mid-to-late 60's.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Kareem
Magic
Kobe
Bird