Today's game has unbelievable spacing

[sdot_thadon]

Curry never had space like that, imagine what he'd do to the 90's. Mj given all that space could only manage to do what's fairly routine for Steph with defense all over him once....

Ha, the genius finally sees the light, maybe you should cast that all seeing eye at yourself sometimes fella, just a lil tip.

[fpliii]

Agreed. Playing more shooters and utilizing their gravity effects is smart basketball, since that spacing opens up the floor. Needs to be coupled with tons of motion in the offense though (like the best teams, i.e. GS and SA do), or it's not very fun to watch.

[3ball]

MJ had tons of space on the 3-pointer over Cliff Robinson in 1992 Finals

MJ's three-pointer over Cliff Robinson was a catch and shoot - the space I'm referring to is when the ballhandler is dribbling the ball.

Today's ballhandler has more space due to league-mandated hands-off defense, which creates space between defender and ballhandler for easier pull-up jumpshooting, shown earlier itt.

Goat had a game where he hit 6 3s in a half in Finals

MJ's lack of 3-point volume meant he never got in a rhythm like high volume 3-point shooters do.

Not surprisingly, anytime Jordan DID shoot a slightly higher 3-point volume, he shot much better - anytime he took 3+ three-pointers per game, he shot excellently (37% in 1990 and 36% in 1992)...

Surely if he shot 6+ threes per game like today's player, he'd realize the same economies of scale in his percentage that today's player enjoys

Playing more shooters and utilizing their gravity effects is smart basketball, since that spacing opens up the floor.

And even without the spacing (even without shooters behind the 3-point line) today's defender must keep the paint clear..

If an offensive player is standing on the block, his defender can't stand 8 feet away under the rim - the defender must stand right next to their man on the block, within armslength, as stipulated in the new defensive 3 seconds rule instituted in 2005.. The "armslength" restriction forces defenders to vacate the paint when their man is outside the paint, since that is out of "armslength".. The only way today's defender can remain in the paint is if their man is already inside the paint and standing right next to them.

But in previous eras, the lack of 3-point shooting and closer proximity of players to the rim activated the league's legal paint-camping provision - Rule 2b of the Illegal Defense Guidelines allows defenders to remain the paint "with no time limit" if their man is inside the paint or within 3 feet of either side.. So unlike today's game, a defender CAN remain under the rim while his man was 8 feet away on the block, or even 12 feet away near the FT line.. This legal paint-camping provision exacerbated the crowded paints that the the no-spacing environment had already created.
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[AlphaWolf24]

MJ's lack of volume meant he never got in a rhythm shooting the ball like all high volume 3-point shooters get.

Not surprisingly, anytime Jordan DID shoot a slightly higher volume, he shot much better - anytime he took 3+ three-pointers per game, he shot excellently (37% in 1990 and 36% in 1992)...

Surely if he shot 6+ threes per game like today's player, he'd realize the same economies of scale in his percentage that today's player enjoys

he never got into rhythm...and took a lot of 3's because ..

A) He wasn't a very good 3 point shooter
B) he played in an era where the 3 point shot was not as widely used.
C) he always let success be his guide when MJ took 3's...in other words it WAS NOT part of his game....but when he felt comfortable and made a few....he kept shooting......which wasn't very often.


your example is like when Dwight Howard has a game where he makes 70% of his FT's....maybe the other team fouled him a lot and he got into rhythm...

he still sucks at FT's...


surley if MJ grew up in the 2000's and grew up with the 3 pointer as a main option he probably would be a great 3 point shooter......so would Bill Russell ....or Oscar Robertson....

but he didn't...he grew up in the primitive era of outside shooting/3 pointers....and wasn't very good at it.

_____________________

his release was also very flat when he shot from 3....especially compared to Curry and other great shooters.....Curry is just on another level.

[fpliii]

But in previous eras, the lack of 3-point shooting and closer proximity of players to the rim activated the league's legal paint-camping provision

I agree.

EDIT: Whoops, looks like the post is gone.

[3ball]

Why did MJ never have spacing like that? Why were the GMs and coaches of yesteryear less advanced than those of today?

When MJ entered the league in 1984, teams attempted two 3-pointers per game - with no one behind the line, there was no spacing..

Occasionally, teams would position 3+ players behind the 3-point line for isolation purposes just like today's game, but those type of clearout plays were considered gimmicks and they occurred once or twice per game, many times not at all...

Whereas EVERY SINGLE POSSESSION in today's game shows 3+ players behind the 3-point line - coaches have developed many different ways to position players behind the line for maximum spacing and freedom of movement.

[FKAri]

3ball claims someone is having a meltdown...3ball then types 6 posts in a row

in b4 post deletes

[3ball]

3ball claims someone is having a meltdown...3ball then types 6 posts in a row

in b4 post deletes

the consecutive posts were so the thread would go to next page because sdot_thadon tried to post a big image to distort the thread

apparently his actual trolling skills have declined so he has to post big images instead.. he's past his prime like lebron

[3ball]

MJ's release was flat when he shot from 3....especially compared to Curry and other great shooters.....Curry is just on another level.

MJ's form was perfect.. But the great thing about MJ is that he didn't need the 3-point line to achieve great stats.. He averaged 37 ppg on all two-pointers with 59% ts.

Otoh, Curry would be a far lesser player without the 3-point line in the 70's... Without the 3-point line, all the high efficiency threes at 44% (half his shots) would be low efficiency, long two's at 44%... Long two's don't hurt a defense.. In the 70's, short guards that took a lot of long two's were considered dime-a-dozen gunners, not top players.. Curry is lucky the 3-point line turns him from low-efficiency gunner into a top player.

Also, his shots inside 15 feet would be far better contested in the 70's, since defenders didn't have to guard the 3-point line - that's why DRtg was literally 10 points lower in the 70's.

In the 70's, short gunners that can't dominate inside end up being World B Free and Maravich-level players, and those guys were actually better 2-point shotmakers than Curry.. But they were never considered the best player in the game or anywhere near, like Curry is now.. Again, today's spaced-out, 3-point friendly league is the only era where Curry would be a top player.

[fpliii]

[3ball]

Nowitski creates shots for others by simply standing without having the ball in his hands.

MJ did this more than anyone in this history of the game, other than Wilt.. The defense had to be wary wherever MJ was on the floor.
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[3ball]

"Five guys working on the court together can achieve more than 5 talented individuals"

- Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

MJ achieved most of his scoring championships within an equal-opportunity offense with some of the best teamwork the NBA has ever seen... It takes great skill to be scoring champ while your team plays with goat chemistry, but MJ's low time-of-possession, off-ball style allowed him to do this.

Also, MJ often shot high volume, which controls pace... He also shot WELL at that high volume, which gave his team a chance to win.. However, achieving high efficiency at high volume [COLOR="Navy"]while winning a championship[/COLOR] requires the most skill - the player must achieve the high volume at high efficiency within a team concept, without diminishing the stats of teammates.

[I]The only players reach the holy grail of basketball skill by shooting well high volume while winning a championship (25+ fga while shooting 45%+ during playoffs) were MJ four times (1992, 1993, 1997, and 1998) and Hakeem once (1995).

In MJ's case, he averaged an amazing 25.1 shot attempts in the playoffs on 49%.. When you compare his [COLOR="Navy"]per 100 stats[/COLOR] to other wings (playoffs stats shown below), it's clear that he did exactly what the other wings did, but just MORE OF IT.. His efficiency was the same as other wings, but he simply produced far more at that efficiency:

JORDAN:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 43.3 pts.. 2.2 oreb.. 6.1 dreb.. 7.4 ast.. 4.0 tov.. 2.7 stl.. 1.1 blk.. [COLOR="green"]32.5 fga.. 118 ORtg.. 56.8 ts[/COLOR]
LEBRON:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 36.5 pts.. 2.0 oreb.. 9.3 dreb.. 8.6 ast.. 4.5 tov.. 2.2 stl.. 1.2 blk.. 26.8 fga.. 114 ORtg.. 56.5 ts
DURANT:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 35.8 pts.. 1.2 oreb.. 9.1 dreb.. 4.8 ast.. 4.1 tov.. 1.4 stl.. 1.5 blk.. 25.8 fga.. 114 ORtg.. 58.3 ts
KOBE:[COLOR="White"].....[/COLOR] 34.7 pts.. 1.4 oreb.. 5.5 dreb.. 6.4 ast.. 4.0 tov.. 1.9 stl.. 0.9 blk.. 27.7 fga.. 110 ORtg.. 54.1 ts
WADE:[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR] 32.2 pts.. 2.0 oreb.. 5.4 dreb.. 7.1 ast.. 4.8 tov.. 2.3 stl.. 1.4 blk.. 24.5 fga.. 108 ORtg.. 55.4 ts
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[fpliii]

[AlphaWolf24]

[3ball]

Wow... MJ said he got double-teamed and Wilt didn't... MJ's goat...

He also said if he played in Wilt's day, it would be like him going against John Stockton on the post, which sounds like something on ISH tbh.. I have no comment here

He also said Detroit focused their entire defense on stopping HIM - yet he still averaged 32/7/6 on 47% in 1989 and 1990 ECF.. ... MJ goat

He said averaging 37 a game was tough because you had to get over 40 to offset a 32 point game..

Btw, since MJ said he was double-teamed and Wilt wasn't, then the MJ-double-team thread is spot-on:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=386210