1986 Larry Bird vs 2012 LeBron James

[1987_Lakers]

Who is the better player?

[pauk]

Lebron, he just accomplished more this year and he does & did more in the game on both ends...

[t-rex]

I love my Celtics. But the difference is defense. LBJ can guard any position. Bird couldn't.

[1987_Lakers]

bump.

[Round Mound]

I love my Celtics. But the difference is defense. LBJ can guard any position. Bird couldn't.

Bird had One of the Highest Defensive Ratings (Individual) for a a SF even ranked 2nd in the League Once. He Ranked 1st In 2 Play-Off Runs too. Bird guards the Post Better than Lebron.

Bird achieved this in His Title Run:

24.0 PPG 48.2% FG, 9.7 RPG, 9.5 APG & 2.7 SPG

[Bernie Nips]

Bird's run was better, but he'd done it before and had more confidence... that's not taking anything away from LeBron though. He has every chance to improve and challenge Bird from here.

[RaininTwos]

I'd have to re-watch Bird's run before making a decision. Been a while.

[ShaqAttack3234]

I'll take '86 Bird over any version of Lebron. Lebron is the better defender, though Bird wasn't a bad defender. Bird's man to man defense wasn't great, but his help defense/team defense was very good. He made the proper rotations in the paint to consistently contest shots even though he wasn't a prolific shot blocker, he was an excellent double teamer, and his anticipation was phenomenal. A very smart defender, which is why he made several all-defensive second teams. Lebron has the clear edge there, but that's Lebron's only advantage outside of the big athleticism advantage and big weight advantage. Well, he has the advantage as a ball handler as well. Of course it goes hand in hand with athleticism, but Lebron is also the superior open court player and finisher. He's nowhere near as creative, though.

But Bird was the vastly superior shooter, he moved much better without the ball, and he was so much more skilled and crafty. Had a much better post game, had those left-handed and right-handed floaters too. Lebron's in between game, mid-range game and short range game has really improved in Miami, but he's not in Bird's class.

Bird was also the best passing forward of all time, as good as Lebron is in that area, Bird is better. And Bird was also arguably the greatest rebounding small forward of all time, which is where he has another significant advantage over Lebron. Unlike Lebron, Bird was a very good offensive rebounder, though I was pleasantly surprised with Lebron's offensive rebounding throughout these playoffs.

As far as numbers? They're pretty close. Don't see how they determine much with Bird averaging 30/9/8, 2.1 spg on 52/41/93 shooting, while Lebron averaged 30/10/6, 1.9 spg on 50/26/73 shooting.

But Bird was far less ball-dominant than Lebron, which has to be factored in when looking at stats. This was due to Bird's skill set, and also who he played with. Bird played with Kevin McHale, a top 5 player himself, who had probably surpassed Kareem as the best post player in the league, and was probably one of the top 5 scorers period. McHale averaged 25/9/3, 2.4 bpg on 58% shooting while playing elite defense, particularly vs Nique in the ECSF. And Boston took advantage of McHale's talents in the post which limited Bird's numbers. He also had the unbelievable center duo of Robert Parish, and Bill Walton. Walton could still do everything you could possibly want a center to do, just in shorter stretches, and Parish had the unstoppable turnaround, so both were guys who got the ball in the post. Then you had hall of famer Dennis Johnson and a dead-eye shooter in Danny Ainge, both of whom could play either guard position, so again, Bird averaging 30+ wasn't necessary.

A big part of the Celtics tremendous halfcourt offense, and the fact that they were the best passing team ever(and best team ever) is Bird. He was their best passer, and probably the best passer in the game not named Magic Johnson, and it seemed to be contagious.

I've seen quite a few '86 Celtics regular season games, and their entire playoff run, except I haven't completed the Milwaukee series, and I can say that Bird was remarkably consistent in the postseason. The numbers suggest that too. But regardless of numbers, he just put on a clinic in the '86 ECSF, completely humiliating Nique, faking him out of his shoes, doing whatever he wanted ect.

1st round- 28/8/8, 1.7 spg, 1.3 bpg, 53 FG%, 40 3P%, 83 FT%, 3 games
semifinals- 27/10/7, 1.8 spg, 53 FG%, 33 3P%, 96 FT%
conference finals- 25/10/8, 1.8 spg, 55 FG%, 50 3P%, 95 FT%
finals- 24/10/10, 2.7 spg, 48 FG%, 35 3P%, 94 FT%

Doesn't get much more consistent than that. Bird's season numbers were 26/10/7, 2 spg, 1 bpg, 50/42/90 shooting, but those are deceptive because he injured his back in the offseason paving his mother's driveway, which of course bothered him the rest of the year, but his stats were lowered early because of it. For example, Bird was averaging an uncharacteristic 24/9/6 on 45% through Christmas and 27/10/7 on 52/45/88 shooting the rest of the season.

And he had that amazing triple double streak midseason. He had 31/15/11 vs Seattle, followed by 47/14/11 vs Portland the next game. 2 games later he had 36/12/11, and the game after the next, he has 30/11/12 followed by 24/18/13, narrowly misses a third straight triple double with 22/9/9, but then adds another with 20/13/12. And these games primarily came with McHale out. Talk about stepping up when your best teammate goes out, he had 6 triple doubles in 10 games, and his averages in those 10 games where 28.3 ppg, 13.4 rpg and 9.3 apg on 53% shooting.

And again, numbers hardly due Bird's level of play justice. He played more like a forward, while Lebron plays like a scoring point guard, which obviously allows him more opportunities to get numbers. And while Bird played in a faster paced era, Lebron gets an insane amount of easy baskets in transition, and benefits far more from transition opportunities than Bird did. Can't really hold this against Lebron, though, because he kept it up in the playoffs, and if your game translates to the playoffs, what do I care? And I'll give him credit for working without the ball better than in the past. He cut for a lot more easy lay ups this year.

[andgar923]

Who is the better player?

Bird is still a better player.

[Cali Syndicate]

Lebron, he just accomplished more this year and he does & did more in the game on both ends...

Pfffffftttt

[Micku]

It's pretty close to me.

LeBron is the better defender, but Bird was smoother offensively and had a jumpshot obviously. Bird wasn't that bad defensively that ppl make him out to be, and Bird is a better rebounder and better passer (close) IMO. Bird might've been able to guard KG better than LeBron because Bird is used to guard PFs, and is pretty good at it.

But it's close. I think Bird is harder to defend. He runs through screens and could catch and shoot, and better in the post. He could attack you in the paint or the outside shot. And you can't foul him because he is automatic at the FT line. Bird also played better within the offense.

But it's close to me. You can't really go wrong with either, but they play different style. One is more skilled and play more off the ball, the other is more ball dominant and slasher to create, and better defender.

But if I had to choose. Larry Bird. He is a better complement for teams and more skills in the half court set to hurt you than LBJ.

[NumberSix]

Didn't you get the memo? LeBron is a top 4 BOAT. Bird is not.

[Math2]

There is no ****ing comparison.

Waste of thread

[blacknapalm]

bird. an even better passer than lebron. a better shooter for sure, better post game which made him more versatile offensively and he always had a knack for making big play

[Harison]

Lebron with the most Top stacked team in NBA just barely won over injured grandpas Celtics (and would have lost with fair refs 1-4) and then beat very young pre-prime OKC.

How does that compare with beating Hakeem and Jordan (43.7/6.3/5.7) in the same Playoffs? Comparing raw numbers doesnt do the justice either, Bird facilitated teammates better, and could easily score more if needed against actual defense, what to speak what Bird could do with current rules?

Its no contest really, Lebron was great, but he doesnt hold the candle to prime Bird, or Hakeem, or Jordan, or Magic, etc, etc. Its easy to be dominant with rules and refs heavily favoring you, without any Top10 players to compete against.