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  1. #46
    the Sho Kosugi of ISH -p.tiddy-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE

    Lol, shlver I have done extensive research on this and have read up on every theory there is....there is nothing that fully explains them...the OBE in particular is impossible to explain

    Never mind the fact that they have been shown to happen WITHOUT BRAIN WAVES....meaning, it is impossible they were dreamed, the brain isn't functioning at all...look up Pam Reynolds.

    There are numerous scientists as well as doctors that are completely baffled by NDEs...and you walk into this thread and snicker at them as though you have them all figured out is an eye roller.

  2. #47
    the Sho Kosugi of ISH -p.tiddy-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE

    There are a couple drugs that can produce similar out of body type effects but they aren't the same as NDEs where you get the life review, meet spirits, are able to float from room to room or even across the globe, ect

    Blind people can see for the first time after an NDE...that can't be explained by a dream...they have never seen what a human looks like until their NDE.

  3. #48
    Get him a body bag! Patrick Chewing's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE

    Quote Originally Posted by shlver
    Nope. Actual observed medical phenomena that reproduced symptoms of NDE. Look up anesthesia awareness.
    It is not "just a theory" as you and primetime like to put it. It's apparent that you have no idea what you're talking about.
    A neurosurgeon finds no plausible evidence that science is behind our NDEs.
    Like really... People use this kind of connotation? "is the sky blue because of science?"

    I have no idea what I'm talking about? You see, I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm simply telling you that everything you're referring to is a theory. There is no denying that. Just like the "Theory of Evolution", yet millions take it as fact. You're too headstrong on believing it your way that you're refusing to accept the fact that when it comes to NDE's, which has nothing to do with anesthesia awareness, modern science cannot explain it. We are talking about people having religious and spiritual out of body experiences all over the world that answer questions that were other wise unknown. I fully expect another retort explaining to me how I'm wrong and theories are right.

  4. #49
    코비=GOAT
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    Default Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE

    Quote Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
    Lol, shlver I have done extensive research on this and have read up on every theory there is....there is nothing that fully explains them...the OBE in particular is impossible to explain
    No you haven't. Until you can tell me about brain physiology and its implication on how some NDE symptoms can be reproduced, then you have not "researched it extensively." Watching youtube videos and reading websites is not considered extensive research.
    Never mind the fact that they have been shown to happen WITHOUT BRAIN WAVES....meaning, it is impossible they were dreamed, the brain isn't functioning at all...look up Pam Reynolds.
    EEG's have shown the inability to detect some brain activity.
    There are numerous scientists as well as doctors that are completely baffled by NDEs...and you walk into this thread and snicker at them as though you have them all figured out is an eye roller.
    Do you even read my posts? I didn't suggest that anywhere. I pointed you to several physiological conditions that reproduce symptoms of NDE's. This is scientific evidence. If you turn to a supernatural cause and ignore the scientific explanations, then that is unscientific. Once again, his background in science as an MD lends no credence to his beliefs.

  5. #50
    Get him a body bag! Patrick Chewing's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE

    Here's a good article on a couple of scientists debunking the whole NDE phenomena: http://www.livescience.com/16019-dea...explained.html


    However, as you get to the end of the article, you realize they filled your head with probabilities and improbabilities based on diseases or illnesses that mimic what NDE patients experience. They ignore the mere fact that while a Parkinson's patient may see an apparition, they are still alive, yet people that have experienced an NDE are clinically dead and when resuscitated can recollect things that were practically impossible.

    I'm trying to be as objective as possible in looking for scientific research to explain the symptoms of NDE's and these are the type of articles I'm finding. In truth, it is a mere impossibility to study this. We would have to delve into a realm of weird science and have some test subjects volunteer to die.

  6. #51
    NBA sixth man of the year miller-time's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE

    Quote Originally Posted by shlver
    EEG's have shown the inability to detect some brain activity.
    Doesn't even matter. Her NDE didn't occur when her brain stopped responding. It was both before and after that part of the operation. They only stopped her brain for a 5 or 6 minute window (from memory give or take a minute or two), everything else happens over a matter of hours and during the periods of time when her brain was still functioning.

  7. #52
    코비=GOAT
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    Default Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE

    Quote Originally Posted by miller-time
    Doesn't even matter. Her NDE didn't occur when her brain stopped responding. It was both before and after that part of the operation. They only stopped her brain for a 5 or 6 minute window (from memory give or take a minute or two), everything else happens over a matter of hours and during the periods of time when her brain was still functioning.
    Thanks for the clarification. Didn't have the time to actually look her up.

  8. #53
    ______________________ Balla_Status's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE

    Quote Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-


    **** you for making me laugh.

    Dooms needs to make a 9/11 thread.

  9. #54
    Vince Carter > Kobe Mamba's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Chewing
    I'm trying to be as objective as possible in looking for scientific research to explain the symptoms of NDE's and these are the type of articles I'm finding. In truth, it is a mere impossibility to study this. We would have to delve into a realm of weird science and have some test subjects volunteer to die.
    if there is a 5/6(russian roulette) possibility of me being revived i would volunteer for this test.

  10. #55
    the Sho Kosugi of ISH -p.tiddy-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE

    Quote Originally Posted by miller-time
    Doesn't even matter. Her NDE didn't occur when her brain stopped responding. It was both before and after that part of the operation. They only stopped her brain for a 5 or 6 minute window (from memory give or take a minute or two), everything else happens over a matter of hours and during the periods of time when her brain was still functioning.
    That is a theory by nay Sayers...


    She was able to describe all the instruments used on her during the operation without ever seeing them...(like most NDEs)...how does a dream do that?

  11. #56
    the Sho Kosugi of ISH -p.tiddy-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE

    Quote Originally Posted by shlver
    No you haven't. Until you can tell me about brain physiology and its implication on how some NDE symptoms can be reproduced, then you have not "researched it extensively." Watching youtube videos and reading websites is not considered extensive research.

    EEG's have shown the inability to detect some brain activity.

    Do you even read my posts? I didn't suggest that anywhere. I pointed you to several physiological conditions that reproduce symptoms of NDE's. This is scientific evidence. If you turn to a supernatural cause and ignore the scientific explanations, then that is unscientific. Once again, his background in science as an MD lends no credence to his beliefs.
    A true NDE has never been reproduced without a flat line...there is no drug that can do it, only drugs that do similar effects.

    Really I don't think you have any idea what NDEs do to people...they come out of them completely different people altogether. Many quit their jobs and devote themselves to charity work, is there a drug out there doing that to people? No one has ever claimed one to be a dream after having one. They see loved ones in spirit form that they KNOW FOR FACT was them...they see God, they go through various levels of spirit universe, can all that be reproduced on a regular? No it can't.

    Why would our brains give everyone the same dream? That is unexplainable by science right now. Everyone is telling the same story regardless of race age religion, etc...

  12. #57
    Alpha Tarheel rufuspaul's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE

    Quote Originally Posted by Is He Ill
    I have OBEs all the time when I'm tired from too much work. A month ago I ended up having like 3 in a 5 day period.

    I've heard some really good things about the book from a couple of my friends. I think that the guy is full of it, but it will probably be an entertaining read.


  13. #58
    the Sho Kosugi of ISH -p.tiddy-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE

    Documentary o Pam Reynolds

    you should watch shvler...and miller

    both sides are argued...

  14. #59
    the Sho Kosugi of ISH -p.tiddy-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE




    ^^^ this book written by an Oxford grad came to the clonclusion that there is no current scientific theory that holds up...

    Article by him

    article ends with this after going over many of the theories:

    I examined all of the other attempts to explain away the NDE as the product of a malfunctioning brain, and ultimately not one stood up to critical scrutiny. The conclusion I finally arrived at was that the NDE is exactly what it appears to be: a genuine separation of mind from body during the early stages of biological death.


    here are the main problems with the current theories of NDEs:

    -they don't explain the seperation of consciousness from the body, in fact science is completely clueless on why we are concious at all, there is no explaination for it currently, our consciousness is a mystery.

    -there is NO NDEer that is willing to accept them! If you were to approach any NDEer and say "that was a product of your brain shutting down" they would say "no it wasn't, I know what I saw is real, you don't understand". That is a big deal that pretty much 100% of them reject those theories, at what point do we who have not experienced this decide to stop trying to tell them what happened to them and instead actually listen to them and maybe even believe them?

  15. #60
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    Default Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE

    Quote Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
    -there is NO NDEer that is willing to accept them! If you were to approach any NDEer and say "that was a product of your brain shutting down" they would say "no it wasn't, I know what I saw is real, you don't understand". That is a big deal that pretty much 100% of them reject those theories, at what point do we who have not experienced this decide to stop trying to tell them what happened to them and instead actually listen to them and maybe even believe them?
    Any time I get summoned for jury duty, I inform them I'm not able to convict anyone of a crime based on eye witness testimony. I'm promptly sent home.

    You're talking about things people aren't even seeing with their eyes. And jumping to conclusions about the nature of the universe based on those eye witness claims.

    Are you as quick to believe people who say they are summoned into alien spaceships and report "lost time"? I've seen and heard all kinds of people claim all kinds of things.

    If this phenomena is ever verified under strict laboratory conditions as being "real" then you'd have my attention. Until then, I think I'll opt to take any eye witness reports from evolved apes with one giant grain of salt.

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