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Old 12-12-2017, 10:18 PM   #16
LAZERUSS
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Default Re: How Many Pts & What FG% Would Wilt Have Had He Been Allowed To Bully Like Shaq Did?

Strength?

Wilt was EASILY STRONGER than Shaq...

http://wiltfan.tripod.com/chat.htm

Quote:
This is the transcript from Wilt's online interview from MSNBC

Subject:
From:
Host:
Date: NBA legend Wilt Chamberlain 4-18-97
Chris Donohue (MSNBC)
MSNBC
Mon Nov 24 11:58
Host Pamm_MSNBC says:
Our guest is Wilt Chamberlain, NBA legend and author of "Who's Running The Asylum". Wilt's book is only available by calling 800-280-1776. A portion of the book proceeds will benefit Chamberlain's favorite charities.

Host @Wilt_Chamberlain has joined the conversation.

Host Wilt_Chamberlain says:
Hello!

Host Chris_MSNBC2 says:
M3 says:
Question for Wilt...watched you bench press about 465 lbs like it was a match stick at the Stanford gym when you were working out there for some reason...how much can you still push up?

Host Wilt_Chamberlain says:
Well, probably I can push up a little more than that right now, because I was bench pressing some great weights. I was a shot-putter and lifting weights was a great joy to me. I liked to show off, I don't do that anymore, but I could probably bench press more than 465 pounds now.

Of course, if you just google Wilt's bench press, you will find links of 500+.


But, of course, like virtually all of Chamberlain's amazing feats...we have very little "footage" (I just can't understand why folks weren't using their cell phones back then, and why ESPN didn't show any of them...)

Interesting, too, that a 6-9.5, 260 lb Dwight Howard could easily bench 365 3x...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lek3aSbUsUM


So, if a much smaller Dwight could easily get 365 up, clearly, he was capable of 400.

A mid-60's Wilt weighed between 290-310, and was reportedly EASILY benching 400. One can only imagine what a peak strength Wilt would have been capable of.

Again, just google Wilt's strength...the internet is PLASTERED with articles and first hand accounts of his strength...


But, let's move on to Shaq shall we?

For those that scoff at Wilt's staggering feats of strength because of lack of footage...well, we DO have a Shaq, probably tipping the scales at 400 lbs...doing the bench...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cW2-x-0lAQo

Couldn't even BUDGE 405. In fact, had he not had a spotter, he would have been killed.

To be honest, he struggled with 315. I seriously doubt Shaq ever approached 375. [quote]

We can also google Shaq's strength, as well...

Third link...

http://www.stack.com/a/remember-when...so-much-weight

Quote:
When the Orlando Magic drafted Shaquille O'Neal with the first pick of the 1992 NBA Draft, he looked nothing like the massive, hulking bruiser he is today. The 7-foot-1 phenom out of LSU arrived in the NBA weighing less than 300 pounds--294 to be exact--and with so much real estate for that weight, he looked normal, even kinda skinny.

But Shaq left Orlando for the Los Angeles Lakers in 1996, and his body began to change. It was slow at first, a gradual increase in the size of his shoulders and arms. But by the time the Lakers had won their first NBA championship with Shaq at the end of the 1999-2000 season, Shaq barely resembled the trim, supremely athletic center he was once. By 2002, he weighed 341 pounds. By the 2003-2004 NBA season, Shaq had expanded outward like a helium balloon, with his weight at one point reaching a whopping 370 pounds.

So what happened? How'd one of the greatest centers ever to play the game gain almost 100 pounds? There are a couple of reasons, and the first has everything to do with basketball.

In the off-season after his first championship, Shaq was tired of being pushed around in the post. Despite averaging 30 points per game during the postseason, Shaq felt he needed to add a significant amount of mass to his frame to prolong his superior play. From Fox Sports' Charley Rosen:

"It was after the Lakers' first championship that Shaq made a decision that had immediate rewards but proved to be a long-range disaster. Feeling that massive centers like Arvydas Sabonis and Luc Longley were pushing him around in the low post, Shaq felt that he needed to be heavier. In his equation, mass equaled power equaled total domination. He therefore instructed his personal chef to overload his meals with meat and potatoes and the pounds quickly began to accumulate."


But banging bodies down low wasn't the only reason for Shaq's increase in size. His diet and training regimen, or lack thereof, also contributed to his shapeshifting. Though Shaq has made major changes to his diet after retirement, he's upfront that his caloric intake during his playing days was less than ideal.

"When I was playing, I was a burger and bread eater, and you can't really do that every day if you're not getting exercise," Shaq told Men's Health in 2012.

Quote:
Truly laughable. Shaq packed on the poundage...NOT the STRENGTH. Everyone knew that Shaq lacked a work ethic, and he, himself, he admitted that he didn't work out.


How about this...Robert Parish faced both Artis Gilmore, and Shaq...

Christian Science Monitor - Jan 25, 1993

After the Celtics lost to the Magic, 113-94, Robert Parish said that in his 17- year career, only longtime Chicago Bulls star Artis Gilmore was physically stronger than O'Neal, but that Shaq was more athletic - "and that is a very scary thought," he said in mock seriousness.

Again, as the years went by Shaq didn't add STRENGTH...he added FAT.

Speaking of Gilmore...here he is against Wilt...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1utx7OxiaoU

You tell me who was stronger...Artis, or Wilt?


Wilt ended the career of the 240 lb Clyde Lovellette with one punch.

Shaq was thrown to the floor and being man-handled by a 260 lb Barkley.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDTFU3Vqa0g

Chamberlain would have thrown Shaq around like the Pillsbury Doughboy.
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Old 12-12-2017, 10:21 PM   #17
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Default Re: How Many Pts & What FG% Would Wilt Have Had He Been Allowed To Bully Like Shaq Did?

Continuing...

Quote:
First of all, we don't have footage of Wilt doing the bench press, but we have an SI article, in 1964, and in which Wilt was playing at 290 lbs, in which he was "easily" benching 400 lbs. We have numerous eye-witness accounts of Wilt benching more, including a live interview, in which the interviewer mentions that he witnessed Chamberlain, now in his 50's, throwing up 465 lbs at the Stanford gym. Of course, the internet is plastered with Chamberlain putting up 500+.

Furthermore, we have an interview, with none-other than Arnold himself, claiming that he was in AWE of Wilt's strength.

BTW, we also have footage of the 6-9.5 Dwight Howard, at 265 lbs, and nowhere near as massive as a prime Wilt, benching 365 lbs three times. Clearly, with an all-out single max, he likely could have done 400. Again, nowhere near as massive as a prime Wilt.

How about Shaq? Well guess what...we DO have footage of Shaq doing the bench press. And in it, a Shaq who was only a few years removed from the NBA, and probably tipping the scales at close to 400 lbs of pure fat...unable to BUDGE 405. In fact, he barely got 315 up, and probably couldn't have done even 350.

Jumping ability? We do have college footage of Wilt on one leg, and with no time to react, blocking a shot, in which his fingertips are within a couple of inches of the top of the back-board. We also have several eye-witness accounts, and from respect sources, in which Wilt touched the top of the backboard. We also have an interview with none-other than Tex Winter, in a state of shock, after witnessing Wilt routinely dunking his FTAs. In fact, he was so stunned by it, that he headed up a committee which banned such "freakish activity."

Oh, we also have a newspaper article, taken from Wilt's '68 season, and at age 31, in which he had reached 12'9" (and Russell was at 12'7" in the same article.) Of course, Wilt was a part-time college high jump champion (and sprinter), while Russell was a world-ranked high jumper.

We do know that a young Shaq hit 12'5", and which was broken by Howard, on his second attempt, and with a running start, of 12' 6".


Skills?

Again, I gave a direct quote, in which Wilt was acknowledged to have come into the NBA with a "good outside" shot (and which has been substantiated by footage.)


How about Shaq? Yes, how about a college Shaq...being the second best center on his own team...

https://www.si.com/vault/2002/12/23/...still-love-him

When the 19-year-old Roberts met O'Neal down on the LSU practice court known as the Dungeon to face off for the first time, people scrambled to drag in chairs. Might play? The first time O'Neal got the ball, he slammed right over Roberts, and Roberts returned the favor. The next four possessions went like that: Two 7-foot, 290-pound mastodons colliding, Boom! Six times up and down the floor, six straight dunks. Onlookers howled, and teammates jawed at Roberts, "This is your house! Your house!"

Then, abruptly, Roberts switched gears. He took the ball on the wing, and as Shaq stood in the lane, waiting, never thinking to go guard him, Roberts lofted an 18-footer over his head and in. O'Neal was frozen--and, worse, exposed. It hit Roberts at once: You can't come out. I got you. O'Neal's feet were still heavy, awkward, size 22 to Roberts's 16. His game was all height and force. Roberts rained jumpers over O'Neal, and the few times Shaq dared to step out, Roberts cut around him and dunked. On the other end Roberts learned quickly how to time Shaq's jump hook and slap it away, how to shiver Shaq with a forearm to the chest at the foul line and halt his momentum before he got into the lane, how to frustrate him until he lost focus.

"When we played each other in the NBA, he was the only one who ever really slowed me down," O'Neal says of Roberts. "His game is just like mine: Big, funny, silly--but he can shoot. I can't."

Quote:
And before some clown shows footage of Shaq hitting a FT line jump shot...yes, he might have accomplished that feat once or twice in his NBA career. BUT, how about REALITY?

We don't have shooting stats from before the '00-01 season, but luckily, we can compare that Shaq, whose offensive numbers were nearly identical to his MVP season of '99-00...and in which he shot .417 from 3-10 feet (and a horrific 67-200 ... .345, from 10+ feet, with zero 3pters made.. In fact, he was a career .426 from that distance, and an even worse .404 in his post-season career.

The REALITY was, Shaq couldn't shoot from more than 5 feet, and was basically worthless from beyond that range.

Again, Wilt was taller, longer, stronger, faster, and more skilled. And it was no coincidence that he was a considerably better scorer, rebounder, passer, defender, and rim protector.

And again, had a prime Wilt had the good fortune to have faced the washed up clowns that Shaq abused in his three-peat Finals...well, Chamberlain would have been pouring in 50+ point games on staggering efficiency. I mentioned it earlier, but Wilt played exactly ONE playoff GAME, in which he faced a center as inept as Todd MacCulloch, and he hung a 45-27 game on 74% shooting against him.
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Old 12-12-2017, 10:31 PM   #18
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Default Re: How Many Pts & What FG% Would Wilt Have Had He Been Allowed To Bully Like Shaq Did?

Bill Simmons...from his own lips, and in an interview with none other than Arnold himself...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPMtfCp0y1o

Quote:
They always say He was BY FAR the STRONGEST person who has ever played in the NBA.

Of course, that interview was with Schwartzenegger, who was just in awe of Chamberlain's unfathomable strength.


How about Shaq, himself, shaking hands with Wilt?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU43dTuMuig

Damned near yanked Shaq's arm out of the socket.


How about Gus Johnson, who shattered three backboards in the 60's...

http://www.espn.com/blog/truehoop/po...there-was-wilt

Quote:
The moment doesn't exist in photo or film, but surely it does exist.

The Baltimore Sun on Nov. 26, 1966, recounted the powerful blow the day after it occurred, in a 129-115 victory by Chamberlain's Philadelphia 76ers over Johnson's Baltimore Bullets in Baltimore. Johnson, according to the paper, suffered a “wrenched shoulder” thanks to Chamberlain's mammoth swat.

The Los Angeles Times on Feb. 26, 1981, recalled that Wilt Chamberlain “dislocated the shoulder of the powerful Gus Johnson when he blocked one of Gus' dunks.”

The Philadelphia Inquirer on Oct. 26, 1986, got the scoop from Billy Cunningham, who witnessed the event: "It was Gus against Wilt," Cunningham said. "Gus went in to dunk, and Wilt caught the ball, threw Gus to the floor, and they had to take Gus off the floor with a dislocated shoulder."

Imagine if this kind of debilitating block was registered in the YouTube age. It'd be plastered into our digital minds and never forgotten. Instead it occurred in an era when players were supposedly plodding, slow, uncoordinated or some combination of the three. And if you possessed some measure of athleticism you were unfairly taking advantage of the physically unfortunate. Rare is the footage to combat these prevailing myths.

Those misconceptions don't reconcile with the image of Wilt Chamberlain, a 7-foot-1 center who jumped high enough to block shots at the top of the backboard's square. They also don't quite jibe with Gus Johnson, a 6-6 forward who shattered three backboards with his monstrous dunks in the 1960s.

How about this first hand account?

http://volleyball.org/people/wilt_chamberlain.html

Quote:
From Pat Powers, 1984 Olympic Volleyball Gold Medalist, 10/14/99 -
A lot has been written about Wilt the last several days here in So Cal. He is receiving more attention now than he has for the last fifteen years--he would have preferred it this way, Wilt was never one for the spotlight off the court.

Here are two stories that I just attached names to yesterday:

One day big Wilty (a notorious card cheater) was playing a game off VB down at Muscle Beach in Santa Monica. To say Wilty was competitve in all sports would be a minor understatement. An argument broke out over the correct score and Wilty was not giving ground to anybody on the court. One of the players, Amon Lucky, made the mistake of stepping under the net to further the point, when Wilty picked him up and threw him over the net!!! Now understand the "Amer" weighs something on the order of 225lbs, so the rumor is Wilty "taped"him on the throw over. needless to say Wilty won the argument, and if memory serves me correct, the game.

Wilty was one of the strongest guys I have ever seen. I once was sitting on the steel fence at Rosecrans taking in the Rosecrans open with Wilt and several cohorts back in the late 70's. A player from Muscle Beach was standing beneath us and told us he was going to walk around so he could come join us up on the rail. Wilty told him there was "no no reason to walk," and reached down and picked him up by one arm and hoisted him over the bar. Mike weighed ~240lbs!!!

I have been around some athletes in my day. But nobody and I mean nobody was stronger than Wilty. He was a man's man!!!

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Wilt_Chamberlain

Quote:
Former Celtics guard K.C. Jones remembered his casual run-in with Wilt. "He stopped me dead in my tracks with his arm, hugged me and lifted me off the floor with my feet dangling," Jones said. "It scared the hell out of me. When I went to the free-throw line, my legs were still shaking. Wilt was the strongest guy and best athlete ever to play the game."
Goliath's Wonderful Life, Hoop Magazine; May 1999; Chris Ekstrand

Quote:
Several years after Wilt stopped playing, he toyed with the idea of a comeback. On the day he visited the Knicks' offices in Madison Square Garden, he talked to Red Holzman, then strode out to the elevator. When it opened, two deliverymen were struggling with a dolly piled high with boxes of office supplies, mostly letterheads and envelopes. The load was so heavy, the elevator had stopped maybe four inches below the floor level and now the deliverymen were huffing and puffing, but they couldn't raise the dolly high enough to get it on the floor level. After maybe two minutes of the deliverymen's huffing and puffing, Wilt, his biceps bulging in a tank top, peered down at them and intoned, "Gentlemen, maybe I can help." They stepped back, he stepped into the elevator, grabbed each end of the rope slung under the dolly and without much exertion, quickly lifted the dolly onto the floor level. Looking up in awe, the deliverymen said, "Thank you." Wilt said, "You're welcome." Wilt stepped into the elevator and rode down to the street level as another witness followed the two deliverymen toward the Knick offices and asked, "How much does all this weigh?" They quickly surveyed the stack of big boxes of office supplies. "Close to 600 pounds," one said.

The Good Natured Giant Wasn't Belligerent, Sports of the Times; Oct 13, 1999; Dave Anderson

Article from SI in 1964, when a young Chamberlain was around 290-310 lbs.

https://www.si.com/vault/1964/03/02/...lt-chamberlain

Quote:
With Chamberlain now doing what everyone expected of him all along, San Francisco fans are coming back. They like him and his perpetual-motion supporting cast, and they like winning. About the only people not happy are the Warriors' opponents. The St. Louis Hawks' 6-foot-9, 240-pound Zelmo Beaty, for example, found out recently that he can no longer take Chamberlain's great strength for granted. Unable to slow Wilt down with conventional maltreatment, Beaty tried to yank his shorts off. Chamberlain, who can press 400 pounds without breathing hard, makes it a point to control his temper, primarily because he is genuinely afraid he might kill somebody. Beaty's unethical yank, however, was too much. Wilt flicked an arm, and Beaty flew across the floor like a man shot out of a cannon. Referee Mendy Rudolph rushed over to him and said: "For God's sake, stay down, man. Don't even twitch a muscle." Beaty didn't twitch, and he is still active in the NBA.

How about Bob Lanier, who was a full 6-11, and came into the NBA at about 265, and weighed a Shaq-like 288 when he faced Chamberlain...

http://www.nba.com/history/wilt_appreciation.html

Quote:
Bob Lanier, himself a Hall of Fame center of considerable proportion, recalls "when Wilt Chamberlain lifted me up and moved me like a coffee cup so he could get position.
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Old 12-12-2017, 10:33 PM   #19
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Default Re: How Many Pts & What FG% Would Wilt Have Had He Been Allowed To Bully Like Shaq Did?

On realgm there was a poll of who would win in a 1v1 battle. Wilt came out on top, getting 55% of the votes while Shaq got a respectable 45%. It's close, but Wilt would win.

Quote:
Wilt. His ball-handling and dribbling were far superior. He was stronger than Shaq, quicker, and had better range. Shaq's is restricted to the 6-8 feet around the basket. If he gets there he's a beast but he has to get there in the first place. Against someone as quick as Wilt, it's not happening.

If Wilt played in Shaq's era, he'd do more than Shaq did. Shaq was lazy.
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Old 12-12-2017, 10:33 PM   #20
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Default Re: How Many Pts & What FG% Would Wilt Have Had He Been Allowed To Bully Like Shaq Did?

2-6 pts on ~45% shooting
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Old 12-12-2017, 10:44 PM   #21
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Default Re: How Many Pts & What FG% Would Wilt Have Had He Been Allowed To Bully Like Shaq Did?

The "unstoppable Shaq"...

Meanwhile...FatShaq going up against the 7-0 Greg "I can't dunk" Ostertag...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...s-vs-jazz.html

Of course, Ostertag wasn't the only "Shaq-Stopper"...

How about Eddy "the blob" Curry?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...01&idx=players


How about Shaq going up against the 6-8 Rodman...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdZn8epqnKo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89IQcTPHkRs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg3BiOw4TWo


Oh, the MYTH that the Spurs doubled Shaq with the Twin Towers?

Complete FALLACY.

Pop was FAR more concerned with a Kobe who ACTUALLY destroyed those Towers.

Meanwhile, Shaq's numbers fell off the cliff when he was SINGLED by a washed up D-Rob, and then the 6-5 1/2" "Shaq Stopper" Malik Rose...

https://www.si.com/more-sports/2010/02/04/post-defense

Quote:
Don't believe me? Just talk to a true practitioner of the craft like Malik Rose, as I did some months ago while researching a book. Perhaps no player in recent memory has done more with less when it comes to post D. Neither tall (his nickname in San Antonio was Generously Listed, in reference to his stated height of 6-foot-7) nor especially quick or springy, Rose was drafted in the second round out of Drexel in 1996 and spent eight seasons as the Spurs' designated Shaq stopper, or at least Shaq waylayer. During his 13-year career -- he's currently "semi-retired" after playing with the Knicks and Thunder last year -- Rose guarded nearly all the great big men of the last two decades: Shaq, Hakeem Olajuwon, David Robinson (in practice), Tim Duncan, Dirk Nowitzki and, of course, Howard.


The REALITY was...Shaq was a pure afterthought for Pop. It was KOBE who CARRIED those Laker teams past the Spurs. Meanwhile, Shaq was struggling against the SINGLE COVERAGE of the 6-6 Malik Rose. Especially in the 4th quarters when Shaq hid in the corners...and completely shit the bed.
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Old 12-12-2017, 10:46 PM   #22
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Default Re: How Many Pts & What FG% Would Wilt Have Had He Been Allowed To Bully Like Shaq Did?

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Originally Posted by Lebronxrings
2-6 pts on ~45% shooting

Exactly...

That is exactly what a prime Shaq would have averaged against a prime Wilt.

Meanwhile, if Chamberlain were allowed to just bloody his opponents ala Shaq, Wilt would go up, around, and thru that Tub of Lard and score at will.

They would drag the Hippo off the floor in an elephant-sized body bag.
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Old 12-12-2017, 10:47 PM   #23
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Default Re: How Many Pts & What FG% Would Wilt Have Had He Been Allowed To Bully Like Shaq Did?

Shaq brought down the entire basket lmao. Forced the NBA to strengthen the baskets. No one else has ever done that’s.
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Old 12-12-2017, 10:53 PM   #24
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Default Re: How Many Pts & What FG% Would Wilt Have Had He Been Allowed To Bully Like Shaq Did?

Quote:
Originally Posted by egokiller
On realgm there was a poll of who would win in a 1v1 battle. Wilt came out on top, getting 55% of the votes while Shaq got a respectable 45%. It's close, but Wilt would win.



If Wilt played in Shaq's era, he'd do more than Shaq did. Shaq was lazy.

The thing is...

Chamberlain was likely 1.5 to 2" taller, longer, much stronger, much more athletic, had much greater stamina, was much faster, and far more skilled. Hell, Wilt was UNINTENTIONALLY stronger than a Shaq who routinely bull-rushed his helpless nerdy opponents.

Had a prime Wilt been allowed to do this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ3FXLyNFew

again, against a scrawny washed up shell in Mutombo who was on his last legs...

and they would have been carrying players out in body bags.

As it was, the one time Wilt really lost his temper...he ended the career of the 6-9 250 lb Clyde Lovellette with one punch.

A berserk Chamberlain would broken the pizza-eating Shaq into pieces. As slow as Shaq was, I imagine he would have run a 4.4 40 when he saw an angry Wilt coming at him...

BTW...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU43dTuMuig

And that was solid Shaq, too, and not the 40 BMI Shaq from 2000 on...
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Old 12-12-2017, 10:59 PM   #25
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Default Re: How Many Pts & What FG% Would Wilt Have Had He Been Allowed To Bully Like Shaq Did?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RRR3
Shaq brought down the entire basket lmao. Forced the NBA to strengthen the baskets. No one else has ever done that’s.

If they hung a hippopotamus on those rims it would have had the same effect.

And again, how about the 6-6 230 lb Gus Johnson and his 44" vertical...who shattered three backboards in his career...

http://www.espn.com/blog/truehoop/po...there-was-wilt

Quote:
The Baltimore Sun on Nov. 26, 1966, recounted the powerful blow the day after it occurred, in a 129-115 victory by Chamberlain's Philadelphia 76ers over Johnson's Baltimore Bullets in Baltimore. Johnson, according to the paper, suffered a “wrenched shoulder” thanks to Chamberlain's mammoth swat.

The Los Angeles Times on Feb. 26, 1981, recalled that Wilt Chamberlain “dislocated the shoulder of the powerful Gus Johnson when he blocked one of Gus' dunks.”

The Philadelphia Inquirer on Oct. 26, 1986, got the scoop from Billy Cunningham, who witnessed the event: "It was Gus against Wilt," Cunningham said. "Gus went in to dunk, and Wilt caught the ball, threw Gus to the floor, and they had to take Gus off the floor with a dislocated shoulder."

Imagine if this kind of debilitating block was registered in the YouTube age. It'd be plastered into our digital minds and never forgotten. Instead it occurred in an era when players were supposedly plodding, slow, uncoordinated or some combination of the three. And if you possessed some measure of athleticism you were unfairly taking advantage of the physically unfortunate. Rare is the footage to combat these prevailing myths.

Those misconceptions don't reconcile with the image of Wilt Chamberlain, a 7-foot-1 center who jumped high enough to block shots at the top of the backboard's square. They also don't quite jibe with Gus Johnson, a 6-6 forward who shattered three backboards with his monstrous dunks in the 1960s.


One such instance in 1964 caused Hawks guard Sihugo “Si” Green a bit of discomfort:

Gus Johnson remembers being "about three steps in front of Lenny Wilkens, Chico Vaughn and maybe Cliff Hagan," accepting a crisp, one-bounce pass from Wali Jones and going up to dunk.

[...]


"I hit the rim with my forearm, just tore the basket down," Johnson recalled. "The rim came down on Sihugo Green's foot, and he missed two weeks.”

Wilt and Gus exemplified the seemingly impossible possibilities of human athleticism, but they weren't alone. Elgin Baylor of the Los Angeles Lakers was already side-stepping opponents on the fast break with a move that would later be dubbed the “Euro Step.” Dave Bing of the Detroit Pistons was spinning defenders in circles with his tricky handles. Walt Bellamy of the Chicago Packers could cut baseline and deliver a gliding reverse slam despite being a 6-11 center.

By the early 1970s, guards like 6-3 Randy Smith were dunking with artistry that we're now fully accustomed to.

But Gus Johnson's and Wilt Chamberlain's cataclysmic clash remains something of a Holy Grail for the era's athleticism. Words and recollections attest to its power, but it will never really be found again. Even more curious is that Wilt and Gus reveal to us the fleeting nature of athleticism and its deceitful promise of eternal miracles.

Johnson was tragically like a Greek hero. His mythical feats became fewer and harder to find as his career progressed. Yes, he possessed a muscular physique like Hercules, but knee ligaments, unlike muscles, can't be chiseled like marble. Knee ailments knocked out large chunks of his career and limited his court time. Unfortunately, the hobbled hero can't recount his glory days to us anymore. He passed away far too early in 1987 due to a brain tumor.

Wilt Chamberlain's mythological countenance endured for his whole career. More than any single player he extended the limits of what was physically and conceivably possible. In addition to basketball, Wilt had run marathons, pumped more iron than Arnold Schwarzenegger, and even became a volleyball Hall of Famer. In 1999, though, the one muscle that can ill-afford to weaken gave out on Wilt. The Big Dipper's heart stopped beating and the titan of years gone by passed away quietly in his bed.

As today's star athletes eventually reach their old age, they can point back not only to words and memories, but the indisputable video to prove just how awesome, just how spectacular, they were. The men of the 1960s can't always provide the film, but, in an odd twist, the lack of film aggrandizes their accomplishments.
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Old 12-12-2017, 11:04 PM   #26
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Default Re: How Many Pts & What FG% Would Wilt Have Had He Been Allowed To Bully Like Shaq Did?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RRR3
Shaq brought down the entire basket lmao. Forced the NBA to strengthen the baskets. No one else has ever done that’s.

Darryl Dawkins did those things prior to Shaq. He was very strong but Wilt destroyed Artis Gilmore who Robert Parish calls the strongest player he ever faced right after he faced Shaq too.
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Old 12-12-2017, 11:09 PM   #27
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Default Re: How Many Pts & What FG% Would Wilt Have Had He Been Allowed To Bully Like Shaq Did?

Shaq brought the whole thing down.

No one else has done that and caused them to have reinforce the rims



Also lmao at Popovich not being worried about Shaq. Deeee-uhhhh
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Old 12-12-2017, 11:13 PM   #28
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Default Re: How Many Pts & What FG% Would Wilt Have Had He Been Allowed To Bully Like Shaq Did?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quickening
Weak era.

Ilts points over 6 finals series was nearly half of his career average of 30 ppg... if that doesn't highlight how chit the majority of teams were in the league, I don't know what would.

As soon as he came up against semi professional players and not the local plumber, electrician and PE teacher, he dropped to 18 ppg.

That is why people don't have him as a GOAT candidate.

Let's take a closer look at the bolded shall we?

Quote:
It is a common theme to rip Chamberlain for his "decline" in his Finals. The first number thrown around is that he averaged 30.1 ppg in his regular season career, and only 18.6 ppg in his six Finals.

Let's take a closer look shall we:

Wilt played in those six Finals, FIVE of which were AFTER his "scoring prime." They came in '64, '67, '69, '70, '72, and '73.

During those six regular seasons, Wilt averaged....

22.0 ppg, 21.0 rpg, 5.1 apg, and shot .601 from the field
.

In those six Finals, he faced Bill Russell (twice), Nate Thurmond, Willis Reed (twice), and Jerry Lucas (who was the Knicks starting center in '72)...ALL in the HOF. Russell and Thurmond are widely regarded as two of the greatest defensive centers of all-time.

Here were Wilt's numbers in those six Finals, and covering 35 games.

18.6 ppg, 24.6 rpg, 3.8 apg, .559 FG%

True, a decline, but certainly nothing like "30 down to 18."



Now, here were the numbers of those six starting centers in their 34 games against Wilt:

15.6 ppg, 17.4 rpg, 4.0 apg, .439 FG%.


Now, since the "Wilt-bashers" also claim that he "choked" in his Finals, here were Wilt's, and his opposing centers numbers in the "must-win" games. Keep in mind that Chamberlain did not play in a "must-win" game in his two title runs.

Opposing centers:

10.5 ppg, 15.5 rpg, 5.0 apg, .462 FG%

Wilt in those five "must win" games:

27.4 ppg, 25.2 rpg, 3.0 apg, .611 FG%


And if you include Wilt's two title clinching games in '67 and '72:

Opposing centers:

11.3 ppg, 15.5 rpg, 5.0 apg, .409

and Wilt in those seven games:

26.4 ppg, 25.4 rpg, 3.3 apg, .623 FG%.


Not quite as big a decline as the "bashers" would have you believe...

And had a prime "scoring" Wilt, who averaged 33 ppg in his 52 playoff games (30 of which came against Russell and his swarming teammates)...faced the washed-up has-beens with bad feet, or the never-weres with bad feet, that a prime Shaq faced in his three-peat Finals...

well, we know this much...

a one-legged Chamberlain played exactly ONE game against a "Todd MacCulloch" in his 160 post-season games, and all he could do was hang a 45-27 game on .741 shooting.

Had a prime Chamberlain faced a "two-headed monster" like the 6-11 "Todd the Clod" MacCullouch (again a complete bust with bad feet), and an even worse 6-10 Jason Collins in any of his Finals, and he might have shattered his 100 point game....en route to a 50 ppg Finals.
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Old 12-12-2017, 11:21 PM   #29
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Default Re: How Many Pts & What FG% Would Wilt Have Had He Been Allowed To Bully Like Shaq Did?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RRR3
Shaq brought the whole thing down.

No one else has done that and caused them to have reinforce the rims



Also lmao at Popovich not being worried about Shaq.
Deeee-uhhhh

Maybe funny, but TRUE.

Hell, PJ was BENCHING Shaq in some of the 4th quarters of those games, simply because he was WORTHLESS on the offensive end. Again, it was KOBE who CARRIED those Laker teams past the Spurs.

Here is just ONE great example...thanks to Fecal9 BTW...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...41&postcount=1

Quote:
I was looking back at the 2002 run, because I remember Kobe being super clutch that year. I checked some 4th quarter play by plays and the margin with which he was better than Shaq in 4th quarters even surprised me. Didn't look at 2001 because they were so dominant and didn't need clutch play. 2002 was a much tougher road. They had to beat the Spurs (won 58 games) and lost HCA to them after two games and Kings without HCA (who won 61 games). Both those series were very close, the Spurs series was literally decided in the last couple of minutes in every game. Kings series of course went 7 games.

Anyways….

2002 Spurs-Lakers series:

Kobe averaged 9.2 ppg on 64% shooting in fourth quarters. Shaq averaged 4.5 ppg on 29%.


In the last three games of the series (all of which LA won), Lakers went in trailing in the fourth quarter or second half. In game 3, Kobe took over in the fourth, shot 5/5 and outscored the entire Spurs team by himself for a long stretch in the fourth. In game 4, Kobe outscored the Spurs by himself in the fourth quarter and hit the game winning shot. And in game 5, Kobe scored 10 pts in the fourth (on 4/7) and made the assist on Horry’s game clinching three. Lakers won those three games by 10, 2 and 6 pts.

Shaq in these last three wins averaged 1.7 ppg on 11% (1/9 from floor). Kobe meanwhile averaged 11 ppg on 67%, also hit a game winner and outscored the Spurs single handedl for long stretches in the fourth. Duncan choking was another big factor, and I'm sure Shaq was taking care of business on defense but offensively the difference in production is so huge.

2002 Kings-Lakers series:

Kobe averaged 8.6 ppg on 43%, 96% on FTs and had just 5 turnovers. Shaq averaged just 5.4 ppg on 31%, 68% FTs and had 8 turnovers. Kobe’s lowest scoring fourth quarter was in the game 7, he had 4 pts but took only 2 shots (one a bailout three, another a tip in attempt at the buzzer). But he spoonfed Shaq and others in the quarter. Shaq was 2/7 in the fourth (and had 2 TOs), and his only two made shots came when Kobe spoonfed him a dunk and a layup. He did step up in OT though (6 pts on 2/5).

I don’t think Shaq played poorly because he was “choking”, he just wasn’t well conditioned enough to play tough, physical series that season. He had a bunch of nagging injuries (foot and index finger) he was dealing with and wasn't in great shape. You can see most of his shots came shot.

I continue to be amused by those who think Kobe piggybacked to anything in ’01 and ’02. What he did in ’01 speaks for itself (a ridiculous 32/7/6 average in the West), but he usually gets less credit for being a beast in fourth quarters in ’02.

Again...Pop just loaded up his rosters with a ton of centers, and had them basically SINGLE Shaq in those playoff series. He had them push Shaq around, and if need be, just fouled him.

Shaq was an afterthought.

Without KOBE carrying those Laker teams in the REAL Finals, Shaq would never have put up those numbers against the hapless nerds that he was allowed to bloody in his three-peat Finals.
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Old 12-12-2017, 11:22 PM   #30
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Default Re: How Many Pts & What FG% Would Wilt Have Had He Been Allowed To Bully Like Shaq Did?

“Peak Shaq was worthless on offense”
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