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Old 07-02-2015, 11:02 AM   #31
DMAVS41
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Default Re: Dirk Nowitzki is unreal again!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamtaro CP3KDKG

It's funny watching Dirk play against defense very similar to what Lebron faced on the wing post in the finals.

It just shows you the value and importance of being able to consistently make shots and score efficiently...it's just the most valuable aspect of basketball, by far, there is in the playoffs imo.
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Old 07-02-2015, 11:04 AM   #32
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Default Re: Dirk Nowitzki is unreal again!!!

to me, dirk has really underachieved in his career.
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Old 07-02-2015, 11:22 AM   #33
DMAVS41
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Default Re: Dirk Nowitzki is unreal again!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArbitraryWater
I bumped it (deleted it though).. I mean, Dirk here was peak Dirk, no different from 2011, drops basically 50 and can't get 2 pages on ISH.

Yea...been trying to tell people this/that for years on here. I used to argue with people on here constantly about this shit when I first joined in 10.

Just for reference.

Dirk in the regular season from 08 through 10:

25/8/3 58% TS

Dirk in 11 regular season:

23/7/3 61% TS


Dirk in playoffs from 08 through 10:

27/10/3 63% TS

Dirk in 11 playoffs:

28/8/3 61% TS


This notion that something "changed" with Dirk individually in 11 has to stop. He was roughly that type of impact player going all the way back to 06...and almost all the way back to 03.

Granted little things improved and declined over the course of that stretch, but it's just the common situation of put player x in a great situation and he'll play great and you'll get great results.

Put player x in a bad situation (like asking Dirk to play center and surround him with the worst defensive help ever and hurt nash, aging finley...jamison/walker like they did in 04)...and you'll still be good, but not great...and individual play will suffer.

This isn't magic or rocket science. Players are always going to be impacted by their circumstances.

Anyone that watched Dirk consistently from like 02 on knew that you surround that guy with championship level help and a quality center and you are competing for the title.....because while Dirk might not be individually the player of a Lebron or Duncan...he was close enough in terms of impact and had an uncanny ability to mesh with any type of style, coach, player...etc....that it helped bridge that gap.

Again, we saw this all the way dating back to 03 where a pre peak Dirk was capable of dropping 38/15/2 72% TS on the road in the WCF against a peak Duncan led Spurs team.

Far from a perfect player, but he got way too much hate and not nearly enough praise for his play from about 02 through 12.

Go back and actually evaluate those rosters outside of pretty much 03 and 11. They are all pretty good, but fatally flawed for the most part.

Want to know one of the craziest Dirk stats?

Since the 01 season....Dirk's teams had a negative scoring differential with him on the bench every single year outside of 06 and 15. Only 2 years of his career essentially did Dirk have a team in which he could go to the bench...and not have his team get outscored.

Those exact numbers?

In 06 the Mavs were +.2 points per 100 possessions without Dirk
In 15 the Mavs were +2.2 points per 100 possessions without Dirk

On average, Dirk's help was -3.2 points per 100 possessions with him off the court.

Quick comparison....in Duncan's career? He's had 9 seasons of his career with his bench having a positive scoring differential with him on the bench.

On average, Duncan's help was +1.8 points per 100 possessions with him off the court.

That 5 point difference is enormous.

Duncan, obviously, was/is a better player than Dirk...that isn't my point. It's that help/coaching really does matter. It matters a ton.

And this is relevant today because the Mavs/Cuban have done a complete shit job building around Dirk for basically all of his career outside a couple smart/lucky moves.

Thank god we have that title or this would have depressing.
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Old 07-02-2015, 11:22 AM   #34
DMAVS41
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Default Re: Dirk Nowitzki is unreal again!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ncrazyballa
to me, dirk has really underachieved in his career.


see above post for why that can't be supported at all.
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Old 07-02-2015, 11:53 AM   #35
Hamtaro CP3KDKG
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Default Re: Dirk Nowitzki is unreal again!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAVS41
It's funny watching Dirk play against defense very similar to what Lebron faced on the wing post in the finals.

It just shows you the value and importance of being able to consistently make shots and score efficiently...it's just the most valuable aspect of basketball, by far, there is in the playoffs imo.
He ain't GOAT midrange shooter for nothing......and in 11 his numbers were never better and he took well over 10 attempts a game
2005-06: 48.2 FG%
2006-07: 49.6 FG%
2007-08: 49.4 FG%
2008-09: 47.6 FG%
2009-10: 46.7 FG%
2010-11: 52.9 FG%
That was the only time he was single covered all playoffs defended were scared shtless of him especially Miami who threw triples and even rare quadrupled....... Haven't seen a player defended like that since prime Shaq or 08 Kobe against Boston
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Old 07-02-2015, 11:56 AM   #36
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Default Re: Dirk Nowitzki is unreal again!!!

The filters are:
5 point differential or less
Last 5 minutes of the game or OT

(Player Impact Estimate) - Shows what % of a game’s (clutch part of the game’s as described above) events did that player impact:

1. Dirk Nowitzki (10-11): 51.3%
2. Michael Jordan (96-97): 41.2%
3. Dwyane Wade (05-06): 40.4%
4. Lebron James (06-07): 39.5%
5. Kobe Bryant (07-08): 35.5%
6. Lebron James (11-12): 32.2%
7. Kobe Bryant (00-01): 31.4%
8. Allen Iverson (00-01): 31.0%
9. Tim Duncan (06-07): 30.6%
10. Shaquille O’neal (99-00): 30.2%


Net Rating (in the clutch as defined above) is Offensive Rating – Defensive Rating:

1. Dirk Nowitzki (10-11): +71.8
2. David Robinson (98-99): +62.5
3. Tim Duncan (98-99): +54.3
4. Shaquille O’neal (01-02): +50.3
5. Lebron James (13-14): +49.8
6. Kobe Bryant (01-02): +44.4
7. Scottie Pippen (96-97): +40.5
8. Michael Jordan (96-97): +39.7
9. Tim Duncan (13-14): +39.4
10. Lebron James (06-07): +37.3


2011 playoffs stats 4th quarter:


Dirk: 10 ppg on 51/53/94


that is alien-esque. god-esque.

Last edited by pastis : 07-02-2015 at 11:58 AM.
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Old 07-02-2015, 12:01 PM   #37
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Default Re: Dirk Nowitzki is unreal again!!!

Despite all this achievement, I still feel like with his talent he should have at least the 2006 title also. Shame D Whistle shot 100FT by himself during that series, and that Dirk out rebounded his starting center 11rpg to 8. Also, Mavs backcourt was a brickfest, and dirk had a few subpar games.

Dirk should also have had another title here or there, besides 2006.
So 2-3 chips would be what he should have gotten.
Anything less is underachieving.
maybe with DeAndre and another signing he can get one last chip, over cleveland this year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAVS41
Yea...been trying to tell people this/that for years on here. I used to argue with people on here constantly about this shit when I first joined in 10.

Just for reference.

Dirk in the regular season from 08 through 10:

25/8/3 58% TS

Dirk in 11 regular season:

23/7/3 61% TS


Dirk in playoffs from 08 through 10:

27/10/3 63% TS

Dirk in 11 playoffs:

28/8/3 61% TS


This notion that something "changed" with Dirk individually in 11 has to stop. He was roughly that type of impact player going all the way back to 06...and almost all the way back to 03.

Granted little things improved and declined over the course of that stretch, but it's just the common situation of put player x in a great situation and he'll play great and you'll get great results.

Put player x in a bad situation (like asking Dirk to play center and surround him with the worst defensive help ever and hurt nash, aging finley...jamison/walker like they did in 04)...and you'll still be good, but not great...and individual play will suffer.

This isn't magic or rocket science. Players are always going to be impacted by their circumstances.

Anyone that watched Dirk consistently from like 02 on knew that you surround that guy with championship level help and a quality center and you are competing for the title.....because while Dirk might not be individually the player of a Lebron or Duncan...he was close enough in terms of impact and had an uncanny ability to mesh with any type of style, coach, player...etc....that it helped bridge that gap.

Again, we saw this all the way dating back to 03 where a pre peak Dirk was capable of dropping 38/15/2 72% TS on the road in the WCF against a peak Duncan led Spurs team.

Far from a perfect player, but he got way too much hate and not nearly enough praise for his play from about 02 through 12.

Go back and actually evaluate those rosters outside of pretty much 03 and 11. They are all pretty good, but fatally flawed for the most part.

Want to know one of the craziest Dirk stats?

Since the 01 season....Dirk's teams had a negative scoring differential with him on the bench every single year outside of 06 and 15. Only 2 years of his career essentially did Dirk have a team in which he could go to the bench...and not have his team get outscored.

Those exact numbers?

In 06 the Mavs were +.2 points per 100 possessions without Dirk
In 15 the Mavs were +2.2 points per 100 possessions without Dirk

On average, Dirk's help was -3.2 points per 100 possessions with him off the court.

Quick comparison....in Duncan's career? He's had 9 seasons of his career with his bench having a positive scoring differential with him on the bench.

On average, Duncan's help was +1.8 points per 100 possessions with him off the court.

That 5 point difference is enormous.

Duncan, obviously, was/is a better player than Dirk...that isn't my point. It's that help/coaching really does matter. It matters a ton.

And this is relevant today because the Mavs/Cuban have done a complete shit job building around Dirk for basically all of his career outside a couple smart/lucky moves.

Thank god we have that title or this would have depressing.
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Old 07-02-2015, 12:01 PM   #38
DMAVS41
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Default Re: Dirk Nowitzki is unreal again!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamtaro CP3KDKG
He ain't GOAT midrange shooter for nothing......and in 11 his numbers were never better and he took well over 10 attempts a game
2005-06: 48.2 FG%
2006-07: 49.6 FG%
2007-08: 49.4 FG%
2008-09: 47.6 FG%
2009-10: 46.7 FG%
2010-11: 52.9 FG%
That was the only time he was single covered all playoffs defended were scared shtless of him especially Miami who threw triples and even rare quadrupled....... Haven't seen a player defended like that since prime Shaq or 08 Kobe against Boston

Yep. And he got defended like that, singled, because we had a scary good shooting team around him that made sense with Tyson in the middle.

That gave Dirk better looks from all over the court, but especially on the looks you are talking about. He got doubled less in the wing post and he just got better looks off the pick and roll/pop because teams had to stay home more often.

2011 is a perfect example of circumstances changing in a way that allows a player to excel at an optimal level.

And it's a snowball effect for shooters....you get easier shots...you make a shot or two early...you get into the flow...makes shooting the rest of the game easier...etc.

It's all connected.
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Old 07-02-2015, 12:03 PM   #39
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Default Re: Dirk Nowitzki is unreal again!!!

unfortunatelly, jason terry, the second best player next to dirk, shots 3x times under 40 % in the playoffs. that hurts, escpecially in close games that are decided by one or two points
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Old 07-02-2015, 12:04 PM   #40
DMAVS41
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Default Re: Dirk Nowitzki is unreal again!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarberSchool
Despite all this achievement, I still feel like with his talent he should have at least the 2006 title also. Shame D Whistle shot 100FT by himself during that series, and that Dirk out rebounded his starting center 11rpg to 8. Also, Mavs backcourt was a brickfest, and dirk had a few subpar games.

Dirk should also have had another title here or there, besides 2006.
So 2-3 chips would be what he should have gotten.
Anything less is underachieving.
maybe with DeAndre and another signing he can get one last chip, over cleveland this year.


Can't agree with this. Throughout NBA history...very few teams are winning titles with the likes of Jason Terry and Josh Howard as your 2nd option type players with Avery Johnson coaching.

You are counting 11 as expected? That was a huge over achieving year and ranks as one of the biggest upsets in NBA finals history.

Winning over 50...11 straight seasons, making the finals twice, a title, 3 trips to the WCF, a MVP, a finals MVP....on and on...

That is not under achieving given his help. Again, go evaluate the actual help and circumstances he was in.

A negative bench/supporting cast every year of his career outside of 06 and 15? With 15 being well past his prime.

Just doesn't hold up.
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Old 07-02-2015, 12:05 PM   #41
BarberSchool
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Default Re: Dirk Nowitzki is unreal again!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pastis
The filters are:
5 point differential or less
Last 5 minutes of the game or OT

(Player Impact Estimate) - Shows what % of a game’s (clutch part of the game’s as described above) events did that player impact:

1. Dirk Nowitzki (10-11): 51.3%
2. Michael Jordan (96-97): 41.2%
3. Dwyane Wade (05-06): 40.4%
4. Lebron James (06-07): 39.5%
5. Kobe Bryant (07-08): 35.5%
6. Lebron James (11-12): 32.2%
7. Kobe Bryant (00-01): 31.4%
8. Allen Iverson (00-01): 31.0%
9. Tim Duncan (06-07): 30.6%
10. Shaquille O’neal (99-00): 30.2%


Net Rating (in the clutch as defined above) is Offensive Rating – Defensive Rating:

1. Dirk Nowitzki (10-11): +71.8
2. David Robinson (98-99): +62.5
3. Tim Duncan (98-99): +54.3
4. Shaquille O’neal (01-02): +50.3
5. Lebron James (13-14): +49.8
6. Kobe Bryant (01-02): +44.4
7. Scottie Pippen (96-97): +40.5
8. Michael Jordan (96-97): +39.7
9. Tim Duncan (13-14): +39.4
10. Lebron James (06-07): +37.3


2011 playoffs stats 4th quarter:


Dirk: 10 ppg on 51/53/94


that is alien-esque. god-esque.
I heard Cuban had Dirk's ferratin levels, thyroid hormone levels, and all sorts of other bloodwork done after that finals run in 2011, and has wondered what he was eating, doing, or what mental focus contributed to such spectacularly rare greatness.

I don't ever remember hearing more about it. Cuban does alot of weird, spage-age stuff, and i find that fascinating.
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Old 07-02-2015, 12:05 PM   #42
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Default Re: Dirk Nowitzki is unreal again!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarberSchool

So 2-3 chips would be what he should have gotten.
Anything less is underachieving.
maybe with DeAndre and another signing he can get one last chip, over cleveland this year.

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Old 07-02-2015, 12:08 PM   #43
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Default Re: Dirk Nowitzki is unreal again!!!

damn i favorited this page
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Old 07-02-2015, 12:08 PM   #44
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Default Re: Dirk Nowitzki is unreal again!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAVS41
Yep. And he got defended like that, singled, because we had a scary good shooting team around him that made sense with Tyson in the middle.

That gave Dirk better looks from all over the court, but especially on the looks you are talking about. He got doubled less in the wing post and he just got better looks off the pick and roll/pop because teams had to stay home more often.

2011 is a perfect example of circumstances changing in a way that allows a player to excel at an optimal level.
Definitely.

In 2011, Terry and Stojakovic camping out weakside, and Dirk tearing up whoever they threw at him, made the lakers have to then gamble with doubling Dirk, and then, whether an assist or hockey assist, Dirk made the right passes and shredded the lakers even worse........so once the mavs did that, OKC and miami were scared either way, and felt it was heads they win, tails we lose.
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Old 07-02-2015, 12:10 PM   #45
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Default Re: Dirk Nowitzki is unreal again!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by StephHamann
vielleicht , wenn ich sprach Ihrer Mutter Zunge ?

Sie mißverstehen meine Aussage . Ich lobt Dirk und sprach seine Geschicklichkeit und Konzentration war groß genug, um eine weitere Larry O'Brien Trophäe oder zwei , Mann zu bekommen.

Last edited by BarberSchool : 07-02-2015 at 12:12 PM.
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