Kobe Bryant scores 61 points against Knicks in Madison Square Garden

[Showtime]

I don't see a Big Gap between Kobe and Jordan in terms of scoring.

Sure MJ was more efficient, but Kobe has put on quite a few offensive performances that surpass MJ.

And Jordan wasn't putting up 60 pts. 13 years into his career

Since others are bringing up the subject, if Kobe is on par with MJ in terms of scoring, then why can't he dominate the playoffs like he dominates occasional regular season teams? Why doesn't he have some of his most memorable performances against the best teams in the playoffs? Why can't he bring it when it matters most against the best competition? I honestly thought after last season's finals, this issue would die.

[shaoyut]

61 points

[chopchop20]

Since others are bringing up the subject, if Kobe is on par with MJ in terms of scoring, then why can't he dominate the playoffs like he dominates occasional regular season teams? Why doesn't he have some of his most memorable performances against the best teams in the playoffs? Why can't he bring it when it matters most against the best competition? I honestly thought after last season's finals, this issue would die.

Because you fail to see the totality of Kobe's playoff performances. I know people point to his lower statistics in the Finals BUT look at all of his playoff series (especially during the 3 peat). He had a good series against Phoenix in 2007. He played good ball last year except the Finals.

Game 7, WCF, 2000 (the lob to Shaq game) - led the Lakers in points, rebounds, assists, and blocks.

I mean, there's a whole list of really good performances from Kobe in the playoffs... Not saying that he's MJ in that regard, but don't make it seem like Kobe is A-Rod

[spursdynasty420]

Hey *******, 63 points still hanging there

And not against some chumps but against champ Celtics

But I agree, when it comes to random un-important trivial season games where nobody cares = Kobe's the best

MJ's 55 points vs 95 Knicks comparing that to this wrecked Knicks with Nate Robinson as a center?

kobe is the best player in the league.

but god damn I would love to see jordan play a dantoni team. he would murder them so massively

[OldSchoolBBall]

FYI, he used 40 possessions exactly not 40+ (MJ was never able to score 60 using less than 48 possessions btw) as he was fouled on a 3 and had an and 1. Not that I'm comparing the two but I don't think you realize how efficient this game was. I would almost venture out and guess that Kobe might have scored 60+ using the fewest possessions ever.

I'm pretty sure Wilt holds that honor. As for Jordan, how many and-1's did he have in those games? Regardless, it doesn't matter.

Jordan scored 59 on 35-36 possessions vs. Detroit in 1988 (21-27 FG and 17-19 FT's with two and-1's, the game is up on youtube). He also scored 52 on 31 possessions vs. Philly (24-29 FG, 4-4 FT). But again, it doesn't matter imo. These types of games happen so infrequently that it isn't informative.

And Jordan wasn't putting up 60 pts. 13 years into his career

Kobe is 30. Jordan was busy averaging 41/9/7 in the Finals at age 30. Kobe is busy beating up on scrub teams in the regular season.

I also love how Kobe fans talk about how many years Kobe has been in the league when it suits them (like here), but then talk about age when it suits them ("Kobe has accomplished x/y/z by age 30!" etc.). Funny.

Because you fail to see the totality of Kobe's playoff performances. I know people point to his lower statistics in the Finals BUT look at all of his playoff series (especially during the 3 peat). He had a good series against Phoenix in 2007. He played good ball last year except the Finals.

Game 7, WCF, 2000 (the lob to Shaq game) - led the Lakers in points, rebounds, assists, and blocks.

I mean, there's a whole list of really good performances from Kobe in the playoffs... Not saying that he's MJ in that regard, but don't make it seem like Kobe is A-Rod

Jordan literally ****s on Kobe as a playoff performer, even just looking at scoring. Get real.

Fact: Kobe has had one playoff series in his entire career where he's averaged > 34.8 ppg (vs. Sac in 2001, when he averaged 35.0 ppg). That was Jordan's 111 game, 9 year playoff scoring average upon retirement in 1993. So yeah, tell me again how their playoff performance is close.

[Showtime]

Because you fail to see the totality of Kobe's playoff performances.

I've never seen Kobe dominate a finals series and lead his team to victory as the best player. Hell, even just a playoff series really hasn't happened outside his Jazz series last year.

I know people point to his lower statistics in the Finals BUT look at all of his playoff series (especially during the 3 peat).

I never said he didn't have good games. I said he's never (with his most recent exception against Utah last year), ever dominated an entire series and lead his teams to victory. He hasn't brought his domination on a consistent basis in the playoffs.

He had a good series against Phoenix in 2007.

Losing 4-1 and going 13-33 in the deciding game is something you want to bring into this discussion as point in favor of him?

I mean, there's a whole list of really good performances from Kobe in the playoffs... Not saying that he's MJ in that regard, but don't make it seem like Kobe is A-Rod

Kobe has had really good performances. The problem with that is that those are single performances and not extended domination. Kobe hasn't been consistent his entire career, let alone in the postseason. Others have been able to play at a consistently high level, while Kobe has "moments" instead of dominating stretches. If you want to put him in MJ's class as a scorer, then he better be able to show that he can translate his regular season domination to postseason domination. You want me to overlook his finals performances, but to me, those are the ones that matter the most because those are the games that matter the most.

[imdaman99]

Why does anyone get insulted if someone compares Kobe to MJ? Who would you guys rather compare Kobe to? Detlef Shrempf? Kobe is the closest thing we will get to MJ. Ignore the people that say Kobe>MJ. He still has a lot to prove before we can draw any fair comparisons. So instead of attacking Kobe, just relax and tell us to show you the rings.

[Showtime]

Why does anyone get insulted if someone compares Kobe to MJ? Who would you guys rather compare Kobe to? Detlef Shrempf? Kobe is the closest thing we will get to MJ. Ignore the people that say Kobe>MJ. He still has a lot to prove before we can draw any fair comparisons. So instead of attacking Kobe, just relax and tell us to show you the rings.

First off, saying Kobe is closest to MJ is a debate in itself, not a conclusion. Second, even if he was, WHY DOES THAT MATTER? It doesn't. His fans constantly make comments about him being the best ____ ever, aka better than every other player in that area. That automatically creates a debate.

[chopchop20]

If you want to put him in MJ's class as a scorer, then he better be able to show that he can translate his regular season domination to postseason domination. You want me to overlook his finals performances, but to me, those are the ones that matter the most because those are the games that matter the most.

Dude, Kobe put himself in MJ's class as an offensive player by what he has done on the court -- not by what people in a forum have said. He was the lead story on ESPN tonight because he scored 61... not about last years playoffs, what happened 10 years ago, or what MJ is doing.

The guy hit 81, shares the record for most 3 pointers in a game, 2nd longest streak of 40 point + games (tied MJ) behind Wilt, averaged 40 points in a month (twice I think), 4 consecutive games of scoring 50 pts, etc...

Kobe has done it on the court like few others have.

[Showtime]

Dude, Kobe put himself in MJ's class as an offensive player by what he has done on the court -- not by what people in a forum have said. He was the lead story on ESPN tonight because he scored 61... not about last years playoffs, what happened 10 years ago, or what MJ is doing.

Kobe is only in MJ's class in your opinion. To me, a player on the same level as another player should at least have proven they can play on the same level. Kobe hasn't proven that to me. And I've seen a lot of Kobe Bryant.

The guy hit 81, shares the record for most 3 pointers in a game, 2nd longest streak of 40 point + games (tied MJ) behind Wilt, averaged 40 points in a month (twice I think), 4 consecutive games of scoring 50 pts, etc...

Kobe has done it on the court like few others have.

Does that mean AI and Gervin are on Kobe's level because of their similar (and in some cases superior) scoring accomplishments?

[chopchop20]

First off, saying Kobe is closest to MJ is a debate in itself, not a conclusion. Second, even if he was, WHY DOES THAT MATTER? It doesn't. His fans constantly make comments about him being the best ____ ever, aka better than every other player in that area. That automatically creates a debate.

Again Kobe has proven what he can do on the court. I don't see anyone else in the conversation right now -- so I'm not sure if it really is a debate.

Anyways, you seem to act like there is a Magic carpet ride to the Finals. Acting like the other playoff games don't matter. In reality, every playoff game counts -- you have to win to advance. That's not a defense of Kobe's Finals performances, it's just real truth.

[andgar923]

I wouldn't spend multiple pages trying to explain to them why he's not.

You guys are taking these trolls too seriously. They've baited you.

I've always thought that Trolls were posters that posted posts that they not necessarily believed, but knew would create a certain reaction.

I think most of these Kobe stans believe what they post.

It was a nice performance by Kobe, I saw him hit some tough shots and one that had me laughing (that twisting shot in the last minute), but as impressive as it was, I have to agree with the more mature posters.

Great performance but that doesn't make him the GOAT or even better than MJ.

I mean... what if Arenas comes back and drops 64 against the Knicks at the Garden?

We all know he can.

Or what if Bron drops 60 against Kobe next game?

Speaking of Bron, I think his 50 at the Garden was more impressive, because of HOW he was doing it. People are free to point at the numbers and Kobe's efficiency and even at a few of his shots, but Bron was crazy that last quarter and a half.

[Showtime]

Anyways, you seem to act like there is a Magic carpet ride to the Finals. Acting like the other playoff games don't matter. In reality, every playoff game counts -- you have to win to advance. That's not a defense of Kobe's Finals performances, it's just real truth.

I'm not acting like getting to the finals is easy. What a player does when they get there does matter. And it's not JUST winning, it's performing to the maximum (which usually translates into winning in players of that calibre). For instance, MJ wasn't getting to the finals early in his career, but in losing to superior teams, he was the best player on the court and put up amazing series while losing. He did everything he could at that time, dominated, and lost. Kobe, on the other hand, in losing, doesn't play his best. Would you say Kobe in 2004 or 2008 played the best basketball he could? Would you say he was the best player on the court, did his best, and just lost to superior teams? No.

And I'm not trying to say MJ never struggled. I'm saying I don't see Kobe having consistently played a high level of ball through the playoffs with the exception of his first 3 rounds last year.

[chopchop20]

Kobe is only in MJ's class in your opinion. To me, a player on the same level as another player should at least have proven they can play on the same level. Kobe hasn't proven that to me. And I've seen a lot of Kobe Bryant.



Does that mean AI and Gervin are on Kobe's level because of their similar (and in some cases superior) scoring accomplishments?

I prefaced my statements NOT by saying that Kobe is better than MJ. I made a comparison moreso pertaining to offensive skill... In that context, I don't see a wide gap between MJ and Kobe as offensive players. Kobe has had some amazing performances that even MJ did not accomplish and vice versa.

I do give the nod to MJ for efficiency. Speaking of Jordan's "dominance" is really a mute point because we already KNOW that. That's what made Michael, MJ.

And another thing, I don't get the whole "proven to me". History has been written and was updated tonight... whether or not what Kobe has done "proves" anything to you matters a dayum. Those performances are still going to be there and that PROVES that he's had some great offensive performances like very few players in NBA history.

Breaking the scoring record at MSG after 13 years in the league and getting the appreciation from the crowd is a pretty good moment, in my book.

[Showtime]

I prefaced my statements NOT by saying that Kobe is better than MJ. I made a comparison moreso pertaining to offensive skill... In that context, I don't see a wide gap between MJ and Kobe as offensive players. Kobe has had some amazing performances that even MJ did not accomplish and vice versa.

Which is exactly why I said he's in the same class in YOUR opinion.

And another thing, I don't get the whole "proven to me". History has been written and was updated tonight... whether or not what Kobe has done "proves" anything to you matters a dayum. Those performances are still going to be there and that PROVES that he's had some great offensive performances like very few players in NBA history.

His career is still going on. He has many more games ahead of him. At this point, that's all you have. If YOU think that's enough to put him in MJ's level as a scorer, then that's your opinion. To me, when equating two players, one player has to be able to prove they can accomplish the same level of play, which Kobe hasn't done in my opinion. I haven't seen him play to the same level as a scorer as MJ, mainly because of his postseason career so far up to this point.

I will bring this up again: do you feel that AI and Gervin are on Kobe's level as a scorer because of their scoring accomplishments, some of which are superior to Kobe's?

Breaking the scoring record at MSG after 13 years in the league and getting the appreciation from the crowd is a pretty good moment, in my book.

Nobody said anything different. I wasn't trying to downgrade his performance tonight.