Biden v. Ryan debate.

[IcanzIIravor]

I'm not pro-Obama or Romney, but let me ask people a question. What's the reasoning to re-elect Obama back in office? In his four years I don't see it as a success. The debt is worse, unemployment has barely changed at all sticking between 7-10% the whole time. Does re-electing him making things better or just contain the damage because people think Romney will do a worse job?

Please educate me. I am ignorant on the political front.

I'm living overseas so my primary concern is foreign policy. I prefer the Obama approach to the one Romney wants to point the US in. I don't think the US military needs the type of increases in spending team Romney is advocating, nor do I think we need to be openly militant towards Russia and Iran. My understanding is Romney's team has also spoken of arming the opposition in Syria against the Asad government, even though we don't know how the fractured opposition would do should they attain power. I also think the bellicose words towards China with regards to trade won't do much good for the US as well. I'd prefer the approach of working behind the scenes to talking like it's an old western and the US is John Wayne.

[DonDadda59]

Let's be realistic, people are saying Biden won simply cause he was condescending, rude, smirking and cracking jokes.

Nah, it was moreso that the Romney/Ryan ticket finally got their card pulled on the specifics of their empty rhetoric, repeatedly. The response was very telling silence. We've gotten nothing but talk that isn't backed up by anything tangible and doesn't make any sense mathematically for months. All they've provided when asked for the details is more or less 'We can't tell you until we get into the White House, trust us on this one'.

Either they don't have specifics, or they don't want the American public to be privy to those specifics. Either way, that is potentially disastrous for the country.

[Patrick Chewing]

I'm not pro-Obama or Romney, but let me ask people a question. What's the reasoning to re-elect Obama back in office?

Cause he cool man, 'ya know.

[IcanzIIravor]

Cause he cool man, 'ya know.

What specific policies Romney/Ryan are advocating that make you want to vote for them? Is it a vote against Obama or are you genuinely excited about what Romney will do as President?

[Timmy D for MVP]

I'm not pro-Obama or Romney, but let me ask people a question. What's the reasoning to re-elect Obama back in office? In his four years I don't see it as a success. The debt is worse, unemployment has barely changed at all sticking between 7-10% the whole time. And that's what most of this is about. Does re-electing him make things better or just contain the damage because people think Romney will do a worse job?

Please educate me. I am ignorant on the political front.

It depends on who you ask.

In 2008 we were teetering over an edge. I personally didn't think ANYONE was going to bring us back in 4 years. It just wasn't going to happen.

Honestly 4 years isn't a very long time when dealing with what we had to deal with. I think even Obama knew that, but of course to get elected in this country you have to go with high rhetoric.

We have seen some positive things from the administration, I think those re-electing Obama believe him to be the best suited to complete the task since it's his program so to speak. Bring in the opposing party and it gets unwritten. There is also his foreign policy stances, education, etc. But really at the end of the day people care about money. 4 years isn't much of a measuring stick when dealing with what was dealt with.

It's unquantifiable but the argument is it would have been far worse without him, and the build is best behind him. That's how I see it.

I have started to appreciate the ludicrousness of politics even more during this election process. It really is ridiculous.

[yobore]

I'm not pro-Obama or Romney, but let me ask people a question. What's the reasoning to re-elect Obama back in office? In his four years I don't see it as a success. The debt is worse, unemployment has barely changed at all sticking between 7-10% the whole time. And that's what most of this is about. Does re-electing him make things better or just contain the damage because people think Romney will do a worse job?

Please educate me. I am ignorant on the political front.

It's what they talk about alot but unemployment isn't really something the president can fix short term unless they go socialist a la FDR and just hire everybody. I don't see either of them fixing the economy that's up to innovation and businesses. I won't vote for Romney though because of his chest beating macho foreign policy style that 99% of the rest of the world hates and has never done any good for us. There is still a camp in America that thinks America should micromanage the Mideast/S.A by proxy strong men like we did in the 50's and 60's (which resulted in most of the world's current crackpot leaders like those in Iran and Venezuela). They are still whining that we didn't support Mubarak. I think the " project a huge military throughout the worlds and talk tough" America policy is embraced by some because USSR fell when we did it. USSR may have spent way too much on their military to keep up with us (isn't that a reason to not spend so much on the military today?) which sped up its demise but it was defeated by a terrible economic system, war in Afghanistan, and the fact that it was a bunch of countries that had little in common. Beating your chest about American exceptionalism and calling everything an "act of war" does nothing but damage our relations. A group of terrorists attacks our consulate and then you have people wanting us to take a harder stance on their country, which is on our side and trying to get back on its feet.

Also Romney seems to want to do whatever Likud bids him to do.

Economically, attitude wise they're different but policy wise they will be similar. I don't think either will lower taxes or axe popular entitlement programs. I do think that Obama and Biden know a little more about the full financial spectrum of Americans than Romney and Ryan. Attitude doesn't matter as much for economy.

So those who say "they're all the same" maybe you may be right policy-wise but having a more diplomatic attitude to the rest of the world is good for our image abroad, our deficit, and for the natural development of other countries so they try to get good leaders for them instead of just going by whoever is the most anti-American.

Our reinstatement of the Shah is the reason Iran is still ****ed up today. Chavez has successfully based his entire political career on being anti-America after decades of us trying to influence Central/South America with terrible consequences and trying to keep third world countries from nationalizing their oil. We've done a lot of good things for the world too like WWII and the Marshall plan, but let other countries figure stuff out for themselves if they elect morons don't help them get reelected them by acting like an ignorant dick and talking tough all the time

[Patrick Chewing]

What specific policies Romney/Ryan are advocating that make you want to vote for them? Is it a vote against Obama or are you genuinely excited about what Romney will do as President?

Obama's spread the wealth approach in 2008 signed the deal for me. I did give him a fair shot afterwards, but everything has been stagnant since then. While he's only been in office a little under four years, I really don't see any light at the end of the tunnel regarding jobs. Romney says he has a plan, and Obama says we are improving, yet it is evident that we are clearly not. I know a lot of unemployed Democrats that still want to vote for this guy. I will probably know a lot more unemployed Democrats should he win a second term.

[yobore]

Romney says he has a plan

A supersecret plan where he gets elected and the economy just booms so we collect much more revenue at low tax rates.

[Patrick Chewing]

A supersecret plan where he gets elected and the economy just booms so we collect much more revenue at low tax rates.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/...an_653917.html

[KevinNYC]

I'm not pro-Obama or Romney, but let me ask people a question. What's the reasoning to re-elect Obama back in office? In his four years I don't see it as a success. The debt is worse, unemployment has barely changed at all sticking between 7-10% the whole time. And that's what most of this is about. Does re-electing him make things better or just contain the damage because people think Romney will do a worse job?

Please educate me. I am ignorant on the political front.

This line of reasoning only works if you think the Recession of 2007-2009 was a normal recession. And it was not. It was the worst financial situation of any one this board's lifetime. And the recession was global. I think people are factoring that in when looking at Obama. Also, ever since the Republicans embraced the Tea Party, I think people saw them as caring more about the debt than about jobs.

In the US the recession started in December 2007 and in September 2008 became a full blown financial crisis. It wasn't until June of 2009 that the economy stopped contracting. However unemployment trails the months of contraction. The financial markets blew up in September 2008, but it was January 2009 that saw the very worst job losses and job losses continued into early 2010 and then slowly started coming up.



So it's not correct to say that unemployment barely changed. It peaked and 10% and then fell back. (Also the difference between 7 and 10% is really huge.)

The Tea Party has basically attacked any plan designed to help during the crisis. But the thing is they worked. Economists were really scared that we were headed towards another Great Depression.

In a new paper, the economists argue that without the Wall Street bailout, the bank stress tests, the emergency lending and asset purchases by the Federal Reserve, and the Obama administration’s fiscal stimulus program, the nation’s gross domestic product would be about 6.5 percent lower this year.

In addition, there would be about 8.5 million fewer jobs, on top of the more than 8 million already lost; and the economy would be experiencing deflation, instead of low inflation.

....
“While the effectiveness of any individual element certainly can be debated, there is little doubt that in total, the policy response was highly effective,” they write.

Mr. Blinder and Mr. Zandi emphasize the sheer size of the fallout from the financial crisis. They estimate the total direct cost of the recession at $1.6 trillion, and the total budgetary cost, after adding in nearly $750 billion in lost revenue from the weaker economy, at $2.35 trillion, or about 16 percent of G.D.P

This simply was not a routine crisis.

[Kobe 4 The Win]

Too much BS and spitting out baloney statistics by both of them. None of that crap is going to mean much to the average citizen. I guarantee that both of these guys are gonna take a beating when someone fact checks them.

Biden smirking and laughing at everything Ryan said came off condecending and rude. He did a better job talking directly to the uninformed masses that will be voting for Obama though. Always babbling about the rich.

Ryan had some good moments but he wasn't concise enough and he let Biden and the moderator get away with cutting him off. Overall this debate was boring.

[yobore]

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/...an_653917.html

Lots of people have looked at it and most come up with a different conclusion about the feasibility. But Rosen's analysis, cited in the article, starts with the assumption the economy will grow quicker under Romney because of lower taxes on the wealthy, which is in itself something that is debatable. He also includes pretty much eliminating ALL deductions (including for charitable giving) for those making $100,000, which would be reasonable but will never be approved by Norquist's congressmen or anyone else for that matter. Romney himself has made no suggestions of which deductions he will eliminate.

I personally think the economy will recover with either president, and both of them will find excuses for not doing anything about the deficit. Their policies can't be very different because neither would have control of Congress. But in general we will never be able to sustain a budget surplus if it's Republicans they will think it means taxes are too high, and if it's democrats they will start new programs.

[DonDadda59]

Romney says he has a plan.

[Velocirap31]

That is perfect.

[RoseCity07]

Can't believe its even that close.

Well polls are usually broken when they favor the democrat remember. Math changes when the democrats are doing well.