Gotta question for the believers of any faith here

[TheMan]

So lately I've been really interested in documentaries of our beginnings as a species. There's a really good series of documentaries that were produced by PBS' Nova and it's called First Peoples (Africa, Asia, Europe, Australia and Americas).

In these, many of the old theories of human evolution and migration are being reconsidered with the advent of better science (DNA, genetics) and new discoveries of hybrid human remains (modern humans have been found to not only have Neanderthal DNA but also Denisovans and others). Much of Africa, Asia and Europe was already populated by other archaic humans before we entered the picture 200,000 years ago (fossils one million years old of hominids have been found in the British Isles for example). Some of the more recent human species like Neanderthals are believed to have been much smarter than previously thought and had a consciousness of themselves and their surroundings, they moved as a group and had family ties and maybe even had rituals and buried their dead.

OK, my question to those who believe in a faith (whether it be Christian, Jewish, Islam, Buddhist, Hindu etc) is, according to the religions I'm aware of, you need to believe in the faith you profess to find salvation, right? Growing up a Catholic, if we didn't believe in Jesus Christ, God, get baptised, go to church etc, well we'd end up in hell on Judgement Day.

So what happens to all the humans who were on Earth before these religions that most humans today follow came into existence? Most of them are a few thousand years old, what about a person who lived 10,000 years ago? They were already modern humans, like all of us, do they get screwed because they lived on Earth too early? How about other humans who already had a conscious like Neanderthals, Cro Magnons, Denisovans etc? They are also part of the human family tree...or does God draw a line on Homo Sapiens?

I'd be interested if any of you guys ever asked a priest, minister, rabbi, iman etc and the answer they gave.

[Akrazotile]

So lately I've been really interested in documentaries of our beginnings as a species. There's a really good series of documentaries that were produced by PBS' Nova and it's called Peoples (Africa, Asia, Europe, Australia and Americas).

In these, many of the old theories of human evolution and migration are being reconsidered with the advent of better science (DNA, genetics) and new dicoveries of hybrid human remains (modern humans have been found to not only have Neanderthal DNA but also Denisovans and others). Much of Africa, Asia and Europe was already populated by other archaic humans before we entered the picture 200,000 years ago (fossils one million years old of hominids have been found in the British Isles for example). Some of the more recent human species like Neanderthals are believed to have been much smarter than previously thought and had a consciousness of themselves and their surroundings, they moved as a group and had family ties and maybe even had rituals and buried their dead.

OK, my question to those who believe in a faith (whether it be Christian, Jewish, Islam, Buddhist, Hindu etc) is, according to the religions I'm aware of, you need to believe in the faith you profess to find salvation, right? Growing up a Catholic, if we didn't believe in Jesus Christ, God, get baptised, go to church etc, well we'd end up in hell on Judgement Day.

So what happens to all the humans who were on Earth before these religions that most humans today follow came into existence? Most of them are a few thousand years old, what about a person who lived 10,000 years ago? They were already modern humans, like all of us, do they get screwed because they lived on Earth too early? How about other humans who already had a conscious like Neanderthals, Cro Magnons, Denisovans etc? They are also part of the human family tree...or does God draw a line on Homo Sapiens?

I'd be interested if any of you guys ever asked a priest, minister, rabbi, iman etc and the answer they gave.

These questions are fine, altho I would say right now it's actually more important to question why liberals want to compromise their own society's future and the planet's health based on the need to be seen beating the drum for an arbitrary and irrational morality they basically make up as they go along. They claim to be irreligious, atheist, evolution believers.

So why do they want to give competing society's advantages over their own? It's completely counter intuitive and contrary to the natural darwinian order they claim to believe in.

If youre trying to sleep and need some peace and quiet, just challenge one of them to explain it. Youll get a nice, long lasting silence.

[Patrick Chewing]

I don't speak for the Church, but I firmly believe everyone that has ever lived is with God at this moment. Religion is merely a tool to get you closer to God. However, religion doesn't let you skip the line either.

[Long Duck Dong]

You're Mexican and Catholic right? I can already tell how this conversation went with your mom.

[kurple]

they probably believed in the sun or some shit

[kurple]

what happens to dogs when they die?

[DonDadda59]

I've asked that same question many times here during the height of the religion debate craze of the early 2010s. Most people didn't touch that one with a 40 ft pole but the best answer I got was from that degenerate opiate fiend Legend of Josh. He said as far as Christianity is concerned, because of original sin everyone who died before the crucifixion went to hell seeing as how that sacrifice enabled mankind's salvation. So if you had the misfortune of dying before c. 2,000 years ago, you spent potentially many, many lifetimes being mercilessly and incessantly tortured in hell.

Always seemed like a glaring oversight by the Big Man to me. But he finally fixed the glitch in the God matrix by offering up his pride and joy to be slaughtered like a common lamb. Why that was necessary when he supposedly is all powerful and can do whatever he wants (ie, letting good, righteous people into his Kingdom without needing a blood sacrifice of his only child)... Well, your guess is as good as mine.

Also, link to the documentary?

[Akrazotile]

I've asked that same question many times here during the height of the religion debate craze of the early 2010s. Most people didn't touch that one with a 40 ft pole but the best answer I got was from that degenerate opiate fiend Legend of Josh. He said as far as Christianity is concerned, because of original sin everyone who died before the crucifixion went to hell seeing as how that sacrifice enabled mankind's salvation. So if you had the misfortune of dying before c. 2,000 years ago, you spent potentially many, many lifetimes being mercilessly and incessantly tortured in hell.

Always seemed like a glaring oversight by the Big Man to me. But he finally fixed the glitch in the God matrix by offering up his pride and joy to be slaughtered like a common lamb. Why that was necessary when he supposedly is all powerful and can do whatever he wants (ie, letting good, righteous people into his Kingdom without needing a blood sacrifice of his only child)... Well, your guess is as good as mine.

Also, link to the documentary?

Solid answer bro.

Will you answer the question I posed in the second post of this thread as well? Keen to get your insights on it.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

Thank you for asking TheMan.

What comes to mind is the analogy of life.

A 4 year old would "receive" the message to wash his hands before touching the apple, look two ways before crossing the street; and a 48 year old might receive the message "to detach himself from the world" and "lead a family by establishing peaceful relationships between in-laws." You abide by these and more difficult tests later come later with higher level messages. This world right here is a world of Test.

Different times, different revelations. The Qu'ran states that "Allah does not charge a soul more than what is in its capacity" (2:286)(

It's understood in Scripture that Adam and Eve were the first human beings and their religion was extremely simple, Obey Allah and do not cause corruption on the Earth. So easy a caveman can do it, indeed. "And every nation was sent a messenger." (16:36)

For Islam, Muhammad (PBUH) was the LAST of the 144,000 that taught man how to live righteously.

Seeing as how the Old Testament's timespan ranges for quite some time and has (relatively) few prophets, it's safe to say that those earlier fellows did have some guidance on the way.

Later, things became additionally complicated from different sects.

I myself do not believe (at this moment) that Jesus is Lord and Savior, but the concept of Jesus being the Truth and the Life and sacrificing himself for man's sins and being born of virgin, touches base on being completely "empty and pure"in your consciousness/awareness in order that you can more easily follow God who sends messages down into one's heart. Other Catholics can chime in to add to this statement as well.

It is when human beings consume from the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil" (i.e. excessive information and conditionings) that they "die" in the sense of losing the natural Supreme Intelligence of knowing what to do in their heart and kinda wander in the path.

It's said in Muslim Tradition that "There will be 72 different sects of Islam and the only one that will be saved is Muhammad (PBUH) sect"

This sounds scary as first, but the inner wisdom behind it is STOP TRYING TO FIND F*KING TRIVIAL DIFFERENCES IN EVERYTHING and SEPARATING .

In Ancient Egypt, the origins of Satan can be traced to Sebek/Set, who commands the Left Brain of Egypt. They make arbitrary separations when in reality all living things depend on all other living things in this beautiful harmonious circle of life. It's after years and years of cleaning the soul and doing good on Earth that you begin to see this and become more and more Enlightened.


On a sidenote, this is why a character like Voltaire adamantly thinks life has no meaning, because he has spent a tremendous portion of his life having an unclean heart particularly in the matters of intellectual arrogance and looking down on others.

This is why Moses and Joseph and various scientists areMuhammad (PBUH) are well-rounded combination of virtue and intellect. and Dresta is hopping aboard the faith bandwagon.

Moreover, all Abrahamic religions believe in Resurrection and that the Prophets during the Afterlife/Day of Judgment can intercede in order to aid other humans to be delivered. How Jesus affects one's station in the Hereafter, perhaps a Christian can chime in.

[TheMan]

I've asked that same question many times here during the height of the religion debate craze of the early 2010s. Most people didn't touch that one with a 40 ft pole but the best answer I got was from that degenerate opiate fiend Legend of Josh. He said as far as Christianity is concerned, because of original sin everyone who died before the crucifixion went to hell seeing as how that sacrifice enabled mankind's salvation. So if you had the misfortune of dying before c. 2,000 years ago, you spent potentially many, many lifetimes being mercilessly and incessantly tortured in hell.

Always seemed like a glaring oversight by the Big Man to me. But he finally fixed the glitch in the God matrix by offering up his pride and joy to be slaughtered like a common lamb. Why that was necessary when he supposedly is all powerful and can do whatever he wants (ie, letting good, righteous people into his Kingdom without needing a blood sacrifice of his only child)... Well, your guess is as good as mine.

Also, link to the documentary?

https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=lzstb1s75ng

[TheMan]

Thank you for asking TheMan.

What comes to mind is the analogy of life.

A 4 year old would "receive" the message to wash his hands before touching the apple, look two ways before crossing the street; and a 48 year old might receive the message "to detach himself from the world" and "lead a family by establishing peaceful relationships between in-laws." You abide by these and more difficult tests later come later with higher level messages. This world right here is a world of Test.

Different times, different revelations. The Qu'ran states that "Allah does not charge a soul more than what is in its capacity" (2:286)(

It's understood in Scripture that Adam and Eve were the first human beings and their religion was extremely simple, Obey Allah and do not cause corruption on the Earth. So easy a caveman can do it, indeed. "And every nation was sent a messenger." (16:36)

For Islam, Muhammad (PBUH) was the LAST of the 144,000 that taught man how to live righteously.

Seeing as how the Old Testament's timespan ranges for quite some time and has (relatively) few prophets, it's safe to say that those earlier fellows did have some guidance on the way.

Later, things became additionally complicated from different sects.

I myself do not believe (at this moment) that Jesus is Lord and Savior, but the concept of Jesus being the Truth and the Life and sacrificing himself for man's sins and being born of virgin, touches base on being completely "empty and pure"in your consciousness/awareness in order that you can more easily follow God who sends messages down into one's heart. Other Catholics can chime in to add to this statement as well.

It is when human beings consume from the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil" (i.e. excessive information and conditionings) that they "die" in the sense of losing the natural Supreme Intelligence of knowing what to do in their heart and kinda wander in the path.

It's said in Muslim Tradition that "There will be 72 different sects of Islam and the only one that will be saved is Muhammad (PBUH) sect"

This sounds scary as first, but the inner wisdom behind it is STOP TRYING TO FIND F*KING TRIVIAL DIFFERENCES IN EVERYTHING and SEPARATING .

In Ancient Egypt, the origins of Satan can be traced to Sebek/Set, who commands the Left Brain of Egypt. They make arbitrary separations when in reality all living things depend on all other living things in this beautiful harmonious circle of life. It's after years and years of cleaning the soul and doing good on Earth that you begin to see this and become more and more Enlightened.


On a sidenote, this is why a character like Voltaire adamantly thinks life has no meaning, because he has spent a tremendous portion of his life having an unclean heart particularly in the matters of intellectual arrogance and looking down on others.

This is why Moses and Joseph and various scientists areMuhammad (PBUH) are well-rounded combination of virtue and intellect. and Dresta is hopping aboard the faith bandwagon.

Moreover, all Abrahamic religions believe in Resurrection and that the Prophets during the Afterlife/Day of Judgment can intercede in order to aid other humans to be delivered. How Jesus affects one's station in the Hereafter, perhaps a Christian can chime in.

Ah ok, thanks for the answer.

So you're saying that earlier people might have had a chance at salvation because they were sent guidance? As a Catholic, I don't remember ever hearing that, like it basically starts with Abraham, right?

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

There were scattered prophets (such as Cain and Abel) from first human being Adam to Abraham, but Abraham is particularly relevant (maybe) because he deliberately cast aside idols, risked persecution, and even went against his own powerful influential father in order to unveil the Truth of Monotheism. And of course his family lineage directly produced the major Prophets.

The formula to salvation is not particularly difficult. It's mostly faith and good deeds. Theoretically, Caveman Carl could spend the day hunting rabbits and squirrels, building brick by brick of mudhut laboring furiously, expressing gratitude/prayer to the heavens, teaching his children wisdom and making love tohis wife and that'd be a day well spent. Caveman Chris could be jerking off, causing division in his civilization, getting high off shrooms, being lazy and angry and will thus reap its rewards in the Afterlife.

Even certain polytheistic cultures as in Egypt arguably believed in one God (the other gods they "worshipped" were just avatars and expressions of the 1.

We have to really remember to consult the Old Testament and the Scripture and avoid what lower-level authorities tell us. Your heart is in the right place TheMan, but to walk the straight and narrow one must be grounded and ask themselves "What's my personal next step to get closer to God?" as major intellectualizing at the detriment of action is a trap many fall into. This doesn't mean not to think it's just to strike a balance and explains why a lot of religious authority are averse to entertaining seemingly profound questions, because the person asking isn't really interested in coming closer to God. Sorry if it comes off as dogmatic or caustic

Moreover one's faith can be increased by pondering the artistry that you see outside in perfectly unperturbed Mother Nature (specifically the synchronicity of the heavens and the earth), reflecting on your day and the kind of messages you've received and extrapolating where one's headed to, realizing that there's a lesson and a blessing in everything, understanding that most of the evil and roadblocks come from thoughts one derives from their own ego/self, and basically utilizing one's intelligence in the aforementioned manner.

I was just watching a science video on human eyesight the other day (I part-time sub at a middle school), and the makers of that video specifically stated OVER and OVER again in clear agenda that "Evolution over the course of millions of years has created the human eye!" "Nature has a way" and structured the curriculum in a way that instead of DIRECTLY TRANSFERRING CONCISELY the knowledge of the eye. i.e. its form, function, composites, practicality; put in their own take on things and kind of diffracted the light (like i'm doing right now lol)

These are all not.. lies persay, but evolution is only a concept of human's ability to perceive paterns of progress and Nature is only the worldly conglomerate of physics, bio, and chem as expressed in THIS WORLD.. Abrhamic religions argue that there are OTHER HIDDEN WORLDS that cause the world we see.

It would be more correct, in my opinion, to say that our eyes were created from God.

[Patrick Chewing]

The abridged version please, JMoney.


In other words, God is most merciful. I'm gonna go HAM in heaven. Fools better watch out.

[NumberSix]

Previous humans didn't have souls. Everybody knows that.

[NumberSix]

Thank you for asking TheMan.

What comes to mind is the analogy of life.

A 4 year old would "receive" the message to wash his hands before touching the apple, look two ways before crossing the street; and a 48 year old might receive the message "to detach himself from the world" and "lead a family by establishing peaceful relationships between in-laws." You abide by these and more difficult tests later come later with higher level messages. This world right here is a world of Test.

Different times, different revelations. The Qu'ran states that "Allah does not charge a soul more than what is in its capacity" (2:286)(

It's understood in Scripture that Adam and Eve were the first human beings and their religion was extremely simple, Obey Allah and do not cause corruption on the Earth. So easy a caveman can do it, indeed. "And every nation was sent a messenger." (16:36)

For Islam, Muhammad (PBUH) was the LAST of the 144,000 that taught man how to live righteously.

Seeing as how the Old Testament's timespan ranges for quite some time and has (relatively) few prophets, it's safe to say that those earlier fellows did have some guidance on the way.

Later, things became additionally complicated from different sects.

I myself do not believe (at this moment) that Jesus is Lord and Savior, but the concept of Jesus being the Truth and the Life and sacrificing himself for man's sins and being born of virgin, touches base on being completely "empty and pure"in your consciousness/awareness in order that you can more easily follow God who sends messages down into one's heart. Other Catholics can chime in to add to this statement as well.

It is when human beings consume from the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil" (i.e. excessive information and conditionings) that they "die" in the sense of losing the natural Supreme Intelligence of knowing what to do in their heart and kinda wander in the path.

It's said in Muslim Tradition that "There will be 72 different sects of Islam and the only one that will be saved is Muhammad (PBUH) sect"

This sounds scary as first, but the inner wisdom behind it is STOP TRYING TO FIND F*KING TRIVIAL DIFFERENCES IN EVERYTHING and SEPARATING .

In Ancient Egypt, the origins of Satan can be traced to Sebek/Set, who commands the Left Brain of Egypt. They make arbitrary separations when in reality all living things depend on all other living things in this beautiful harmonious circle of life. It's after years and years of cleaning the soul and doing good on Earth that you begin to see this and become more and more Enlightened.


On a sidenote, this is why a character like Voltaire adamantly thinks life has no meaning, because he has spent a tremendous portion of his life having an unclean heart particularly in the matters of intellectual arrogance and looking down on others.

This is why Moses and Joseph and various scientists areMuhammad (PBUH) are well-rounded combination of virtue and intellect. and Dresta is hopping aboard the faith bandwagon.

Moreover, all Abrahamic religions believe in Resurrection and that the Prophets during the Afterlife/Day of Judgment can intercede in order to aid other humans to be delivered. How Jesus affects one's station in the Hereafter, perhaps a Christian can chime in.

What is the reason that you say (PBUH) every time you mention Muhammed, but you don't ever say it about Jesus, Moses, Abraham,etc.... Is muhammed the only one who you wish peace upon?