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Old 01-25-2014, 03:38 PM   #181
MavsSuperFan
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Default Re: Gender inequality when it comes to reproductive rights

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Originally Posted by Dresta
Ah, so you pick and choose your prejudices, i see. I think you will find that the liberal idea of equality is for equality before the law, and that it is needed to have a government ruled by law rather than the arbitrary whims of men, and the injudicious opinions of the majority. That is what liberal equality meant before socialists mutilated its definition. It was the philosophical justification for the American revolution, and provided the system of values and ideals that the United States was founded on. It also brought unprecedented human advance and achievement with it. For democracy to function correctly, equality before the law must be adhered to, the two are contiguous.

Your understanding has been manipulated without you even being aware of it:

'The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism, but under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened.

Your middle paragraph would be perfectly compatible with equality before the law anyway. And i think when many of the so-called liberals are clamouring for 'equality' for one particular group, frequently what they are asking for is for the state to intervene on the behalf of one group, which is not equality before the law. They may call it 'positive discrimination' in another effort to manipulate language in their favour, but to positively discriminate against one person, you must negatively discriminate against somebody else.

If you polled americans on whether or not they support socialism, they will overwhelmingly be against it.

However IIRC social security has 80%+ approval. Medicare has almost 80% approval. Most americans support some level of socialism without even realizing it. America has had socialist elements since FDR's new deal.

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Ah, so you pick and choose your prejudices, i see.
As we all do, to some degree. Progressive taxation is something I support, and if you define that as discrimination of high income individuals, I think you will find yourself very unhappy in most western nations. Similarly if you define property taxes as discrimination of property owning individuals.

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I think you will find that the liberal idea of equality is for equality before the law, and that it is needed to have a government ruled by law rather than the arbitrary whims of men, and the injudicious opinions of the majority.

The meanings of words change over time. You definition of liberal is more applicable to 1776. Its been almost like 8 years science my political science electives, but I am not generally a supporter of the negative liberty definition of freedom, and on many issues support positive liberty.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_liberty
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_liberty

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That is what liberal equality meant before socialists mutilated its definition. It was the philosophical justification for the American revolution, and provided the system of values and ideals that the United States was founded on.

Words change over time, also I dont particular subscribe to the belief that America was flawless in 1776. I find many of the ideas of the founder reprehensible, especially Jefferson. I am a fan of Hamilton though.

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It also brought unprecedented human advance and achievement with it.
I would argue that america's high point was created by the big government policies of the New Deal. And also the security provided by social security, medicare and medicaid.

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For democracy to function correctly, equality before the law must be adhered to, the two are contiguous.
Your primary disagreement with me is on the issue of progressive taxation. Correct me if I am wrong but I get the impression you feel it is discriminatory against high income individuals. I would argue that it is impossible for a real democracy if the vast majority of the population are denied resources to become educated. Or if only wishes of the rich can be addressed.
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Old 01-25-2014, 08:48 PM   #182
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Default Re: Gender inequality when it comes to reproductive rights

Only people who just took junior year US history think the New Deal was some amazing thing.
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