Defensive rating (DRtg) How you calculate it and use it

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Check Showtime, Celts, Blazzers, 76ers, Pistons, Jazz, and the Nuggets. They all played very fast as well, so they would get chances to score more. It was a different era. Not saying that the talent is the exactly the same, but they the style of play allows for more overall scoring. Just check the 80s stats.



The warriors actually do have the highest points for the past few years. At least top 2. But it's not like you can't suck as a fast pace team. There are a few teams that suck. Sometimes cannot convert, other teams can. But the fact remains that the higher the possessions, usually means more scoring. This includes the pace of the game. This has been proven over the years and with top teams.

We have already established that more possessions = more scoring. You don't have to keep repeating it. More possessions doesn't equal a higher Offensive Rating automatically. It can raise an offensive rating, lower it or keep it the same.

More efficient scoring on the other hand, raises the offensive rating always. 100% of the time.

[Micku]

We have already established that more possessions = more scoring. You don't have to keep repeating it. More possessions doesn't equal a higher Offensive Rating automatically. It can raise an offensive rating, lower it or keep it the same.

More efficient scoring on the other hand, raises the offensive rating always. 100% of the time.

You're right. This is why today's eFG% is virtually the same as the 80s and the offensive rating is similar.

But the defensive rating is different because of more points scored. The pacing affects it. This allows stats to build, which is inflated.

[Poochymama]

I just looked up Defensive Ratings from 1988 to today. What a ****ing joke this is. The 89 Pistons came in ranked 225th.
The 92 Bulls? 211th
The 97 Bulls? 205th

The highest ranked Jordan/Pippen Bulls team was the old ass 97-98 team where Pippen missed half the season -- at 38th.

The 03 Sacramento Kings? 27th!!!

The 04 New Jersey NETS -- 10th!

The 94 Knicks are 14th, but the team that BEAT them are ranked 65th!

Get this. The 03 Nuggets, who won all of 17 games is ranked 63rd. That's right. 17-65 and they are ranked SIXTY-THIRD best defense since 1988! Higher than any of the 90's champions except for the old, injured 98 Bulls that barely held it together. What a f*cking joke.

And this dude keeps shoving this stat up everyone's ass like it means something.

That's exactly why no one other than him and his Kobe friends take it seriously. Defensive rating is and always has been a joke, the fact that people are actually trying to base an argument around it is quite silly actually.

Watch the games!!!

Yes a lot of the 80's teams played bad defense, but sorry there's no way in hell in late 80's Pistons were worse than ALL of the teams of the 00's.

If you want to make a case for defenses being better now, use a logical argument, don't cite defensive ratings, you lose all credibility with the people you're trying to convince and no one takes you seriously.

[97 bulls]

I just looked up Defensive Ratings from 1988 to today. What a ****ing joke this is. The 89 Pistons came in ranked 225th.
The 92 Bulls? 211th
The 97 Bulls? 205th

The highest ranked Jordan/Pippen Bulls team was the old ass 97-98 team where Pippen missed half the season -- at 38th.

The 03 Sacramento Kings? 27th!!!

The 04 New Jersey NETS -- 10th!

The 94 Knicks are 14th, but the team that BEAT them are ranked 65th!

Get this. The 03 Nuggets, who won all of 17 games is ranked 63rd. That's right. 17-65 and they are ranked SIXTY-THIRD best defense since 1988! Higher than any of the 90's champions except for the old, injured 98 Bulls that barely held it together. What a f*cking joke.

And this dude keeps shoving this stat up everyone's ass like it means something.

You and micku just owened him. Now let's put this team defensive ratings nonsense to bed

[Yao Ming's Foot]

That's exactly why no one other than him and his Kobe friends take it seriously. Defensive rating is and always has been a joke, the fact that people are actually trying to base an argument around it is quite silly actually.

Watch the games!!!

Yes a lot of the 80's teams played bad defense, but sorry there's no way in hell in late 80's Pistons were worse than ALL of the teams of the 00's.

If you want to make a case for defenses being better now, use a logical argument, don't cite defensive ratings, you lose all credibility with the people you're trying to convince and no one takes you seriously.

Use a logical argument but don't use widely respected statistics. You guys got me there.

[Calabis]

Use a logical argument but don't use widely respected statistics. You guys got me there.

Why use stats, when we use MJ's vs your messiah's, stats all of a sudden become flawed,........ now please go find some other hypothetical garbage argument that u and the rest of the Kobinites can try to shove down peoples throats

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Why use stats, when we use MJ's vs your messiah's, stats all of a sudden become flawed,........ now please go find some other hypothetical garbage argument that u and the rest of the Kobinites can try to shove down peoples throats

To recognize that Michael Jordan's played in the basketball equivalent of the inflated stats steroid era only has meaning when people try to compare his stats to other great players.

[Da_Realist]

To recognize that Michael Jordan's played in the basketball equivalent of the inflated stats steroid era only has meaning when people try to compare his stats to other great players.

^^ as proven by Drtg

[Yao Ming's Foot]

^^ as proven by Drtg

Is there another team defensive rating statistical formula out there that you feel is superior? and what makes it superior?

[LBJFTW]

Alas, you're hypothetical nonsense used in a desperate attempt to please the kobe stans has proven to be flawed.

[Micku]

Alas, you're hypothetical nonsense used in a desperate attempt to please the kobe stans has proven to be flawed.

Not really. I personally thought if pacing increase the stats thus the DRtg will go up due to more possession, which makes it harder to stop people to score. I don't really care about proving Kobe stans wrong for using it to attack Jordan as much anymore since I thought it was a legit issue.

I came to find out that I was a bit half right. While possession do give other teams to score, it doesn't necessary mean that more possessions will lead to the DRtg to go up. It just mean that the are chances for the DRtg to go up because it's harder to defend.

As I shown in the articles that I found, more possessions does usually lead to more stats across the board, in which other stats will get inflated. Like rebounds, points for scrubs since they take more shots, and possibly the defense.

The 80s issue you can argue for a lot things. You can argue that the defense was bad, the offense was too good, or a mixture of both. I think DRtg is a good stat to analysis which team has the best defensive efficiency in that specific season, but it isn't comparable in era differences. I wasn't the only one who think so, obviously.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Not really. I personally thought if pacing increase the stats thus the DRtg will go up due to more possession, which makes it harder to stop people to score. I don't really care about proving Kobe stans wrong for using it to attack Jordan as much anymore since I thought it was a legit issue.

I came to find out that I was a bit half right. While possession do give other teams to score, it doesn't necessary mean that more possessions will lead to the DRtg to go up. It just mean that the are chances for the DRtg to go up because it's harder to defend.

As I shown in the articles that I found, more possessions does usually lead to more stats across the board, in which other stats will get inflated. Like rebounds, points for scrubs since they take more shots, and possibly the defense.

The 80s issue you can argue for a lot things. You can argue that the defense was bad, the offense was too good, or a mixture of both. I think DRtg is a good stat to analysis which team has the best defensive efficiency in that specific season, but it isn't comparable in era differences. I wasn't the only one who think so, obviously.

Ignorance has strength is numbers.

It just mean that the are chances for the DRtg to go up because it's harder to defend.

Do you think it would be easier or harder to score efficiently if the league changed the 24 sec clock to 14 secs?

[Da_Realist]

Is there another team defensive rating statistical formula out there that you feel is superior? and what makes it superior?

You can't measure defense. You know it when you see it. Sorry, kiddo. That's the way it goes. This is basketball, not algebra. There is no way to statistically measure the difference between good defense and bad offense or any combination in between.

But here's a start. Any defensive rating statistical formula that has a 17 win scrub team ranked higher than dominant champions known for their defense is inherently FLAWED. You saw that sh*t and posted it anyway. All in an effort to make Kobe's playoff performances look better in comparison to Jordan.

[Micku]

Ignorance has strength is numbers.




Do you think it would be easier or harder to score efficiently if the league changed the 24 sec clock to 14 secs?

As I pointed, I wasn't the only person who thought so. There are a few people who think that some advance stats could be a bit inflated due to a wide faster pacing league.

And I wouldn't think so, but then again I would have to look up what is the average time do the 80s teams shoot the ball. Haha.

Plus that wasn't the case in the NBA. They tend to lead more possessions with a restarted 24 second clock. They average more points with very efficient offense, which in turn decrease DRtg. I would guess if the league increase their pacing right now, then they would be similar to the 80s.

[Micku]

The 80s basically did the usual. Contest the shot! Do smart double teams! Rotate when needed! Help defense!

The 00s allow better rotation because of the rules and everything, but the 80s allow you to be more a little more physical with the everybody. So, it's a give and take thing. 02-04 allow a little of both, but pacing is super slow and little possessions. While it could be the best defensive era, it also could be the worse offensive era.

The difference is that the 80s scored a lot more. They shot a lot more with very good efficiency. You can argue great offense, bad defense, or both, like we're doing now. I think it's a little both.